MAVS NEWS:

[Smitty]

My argument was that is probably a more effective offensive front court than the ones listed. My goal was to put a starting quality small forward in that lineup, but this roster doesn’t really have one.   There is not a forward on this roster that I would expect to shoot better than 35% from 3 with the exception of Klay

I think they have:

Klay, Max, Tarik, PJW, Aldama that can all shoot 35% from 3. 

All of them have proven it in the NBA except Tarik, who we all expect to translate. 

Your obsession with position labels is what I think the issue is. If Flagg is one of the front court players and all you care about is putting a 3PT shooter next to him in the “front court” why are the above not viable options? Yes, Klay is the most proven, consistent, best of the bunch. But all the others are, by your own standards, “capable 35% 3PT shooters” — and I’d argue all but Tarik are simply better overall offensive players than Klay.

[mvossman]

I think people can’t get past the specific use of Thompson to see the point you’re making. I agree with it. 

I doubt Biberovic will get super heavy minutes right away, but I think he’ll be the guy you’d use to make this point by the end of the year. I hope so, anyway.

That’s the hope.  I’m actually more worried about his defense being tolerable than his shooting.

[Scott41theMavs]

Cisse sucks. He will never be an important part of any championship level team.

You’re a homer and a positivity guy about most things. This is an extremely weird take from that perspective if you watched any of Cisse’s games last year. He doesn’t provide that contemporary stretch big aspect, but for rim protection and rebounding I absolutely take him over Gafford (who has a similar skillset or lack thereof), and take the savings all the way to the bank.

[Scott41theMavs]

That’s the hope.  I’m actually more worried about his defense being tolerable than his shooting.

It would be absolute Twilight Zone if he shot under 40% in the L. It would be no surprise whatsoever if his defense was bad enough that he topped out at 15 mpg.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think they have:

Klay, Max, Tarik, PJW, Aldama that can all shoot 35% from 3. 

All of them have proven it in the NBA except Tarik, who we all expect to translate. 

Your obsession with position labels is what I think the issue is. If Flagg is one of the front court players and all you care about is putting a 3PT shooter next to him in the “front court” why are the above not viable options? Yes, Klay is the most proven, consistent, best of the bunch. But all the others are, by your own standards, “capable 35% 3PT shooters” — and I’d argue all but Tarik are simply better overall offensive players than Klay.

I remember back when a guy who shot 37% from three was considered to be a rifleman, and 35% was certainly good enough. Those were the days. Then came Dirk, Steph (especially), KAT, Durant… Now 40% is the expectation for a perimeter starter to not draw criticism, and 42+ is necessary to be considered a top shooter.

[Smitty]

I remember back when a guy who shot 37% from three was considered to be a rifleman, and 35% was certainly good enough. Those were the days. Then came Dirk, Steph (especially), KAT, Durant… Now 40% is the expectation for a perimeter starter to not draw criticism, and 42+ is necessary to be considered a top shooter.

For sure! I’d argue that attempts/3PAr is probably more important than percentage in this new NBA world.

[KillerLeft]

Your obsession with position labels is what I think the issue is. 

My dude, YOU'RE the one who keeps bringing that up. 

I'm with Mvossman, and I don't think it has anything to do with labels. I agree that Flagg and Aldama is a forward combo that can work in some situations, but a shooter who (in theory) is quicker than Flagg would be more ideal pretty frequently, and that's the point he's making. 

I also can't believe you think PJW is a similar shooter to those others. He isn't. His percentage could be 70%...it's because they're leaving him wide open, and he still doesn't want to shoot. The other shooters you mentioned have quick releases, multiple methods of setting their feet up off the run, can shoot long range shots off the dribble, etc. It's not a good comparison. I have to believe you know all this, so it seems disingenuous to try sell PJW as a shooter the way you have.

[KillerLeft]

That’s the hope.  I’m actually more worried about his defense being tolerable than his shooting.

His defense might or might not suck. No idea. Fingers crossed.

[OldMavsFan]

If the goal was to land a starting level vet guard then he would make some sense. It just doesn’t seem like that is in Mavs plans. The focus seems to be youth and there hasn’t even been a rumor of a player like that in their radar.

I agree the Mavs haven't really shown they are planning to make moves that improves their chances for the next 2 or 3 years, but how many of the moves they have made have been predicted by anyone so far.  I agree on focusing for down the road, but after reading the article on the players assoc. is complaining about the second tier salary cap and forcing the breaking up of the better teams and then see what is happening to the Thunder and will happen to the Spurs, I have to wonder if the 2nd cap will stop teams from tanking 3 to 5 years in a row, because if they build a title level team all of their salaries for those stars will come due and they will have to break them up.  Teams can deal with 2 max contracts, but the third max really makes it hard to build the rest of the team. Mavs have Cooper and now maybe Johnson, so I still believe a mixture of experienced and and youth might be their choice.  I think most Mavs followers think we have too many wings and are short on PG and centers.  

One other thought, will they use the trade exception or could they use it to pick up someone with a big contract that can be used to trade for a star player like Brown next year?

[DallasMaverick]

I remember back when a guy who shot 37% from three was considered to be a rifleman, and 35% was certainly good enough. Those were the days. Then came Dirk, Steph (especially), KAT, Durant… Now 40% is the expectation for a perimeter starter to not draw criticism, and 42+ is necessary to be considered a top shooter.

There were 11 NBA players who shot 42% or better on threes last year.

So roughly one in three NBA teams had a “top shooter”, using that criteria.

30 players shot 40% or better. So one per team.

[Scott41theMavs]

If the goal was to land a starting level vet guard then he would make some sense. It just doesn’t seem like that is in Mavs plans. The focus seems to be youth and there hasn’t even been a rumor of a player like that in their radar.

I would definitely want them to target Murray, who fits like a glove, if 1) they don’t want or can’t get Wallace, Scoot, or Jrue (yes, one of these is not like the others) for an acceptable price, 2) they have hired a decent medical staff and they’re satisfied with him (which looks like it would delay any such trade for 2-4 weeks at least - for crying out loud, hire a staff), and 3) M&M believe he still has enough left in the tank to be a difference maker.

[Smitty]

I don’t know what your deal is about PJ to be honest. He’s a career 35% 3PT shooter on 5 attempts per game (which was his own cutoff). The last year the Mavs had competent guard play he was 38% plus. You can say he’s terrible all you want. It doesn’t make it any more true.

[mvossman]

I think they have:

Klay, Max, Tarik, PJW, Aldama that can all shoot 35% from 3. 

All of them have proven it in the NBA except Tarik, who we all expect to translate. 

Your obsession with position labels is what I think the issue is. If Flagg is one of the front court players and all you care about is putting a 3PT shooter next to him in the “front court” why are the above not viable options? Yes, Klay is the most proven, consistent, best of the bunch. But all the others are, by your own standards, “capable 35% 3PT shooters” — and I’d argue all but Tarik are simply better overall offensive players than Klay.

I don’t have an obsession with position labels. They are simply an easier way of describing a role.

Guys who shoot 35% on moderate volume should be your second worst shooter on the floor at most. If you have Flagg and a center on the court you want everyone else shooting better than that ideally. 

I think folks tend to undervalue the impact of a high volume shooter. Those guys might be “better” offensive players than Klay but I’m not sure they have a better offensive impact on the court.

[Mavs32]

when it comes to the depth chart, i think we will see Flagg at sf and sg a ton.  from Masaii on down they love playing big and versatile.  putting flagg at sg (not full time) solves a lot of roster/starting issues until that consolidation trade for a star can come along.  if Rez can truly shoot then they can roll out
Kyrie/ Sergio/ Sasser
Flagg/ Christie/ Tarik
PJ/ Naji/
Rez/ Aldama/
Lively/ Gaff/ Cisse

I really don't think Klay starts the season on the roster (they have barely mentioned him in any interview).  I thnk Max might start off the bench but will play a big role as the coach keeps talking about him.

but that starting lineup is huge. I think Flagg should be a solid 3pt shooter this year and its reliant on Rez and PJ hitting their threes but i feel like they will be able to.  from there you can adapt to almost any playing style and you will also force the hand of a lot of teams just because of your size.

[Winter]

I'm with Mvossman, and I don't think it has anything to do with labels. I agree that Flagg and Aldama is a forward combo that can work in some situations, but a shooter who (in theory) is quicker than Flagg would be more ideal pretty frequently, and that's the point he's making. 

Except that he's made it using Klay as the "shooter" rather than an archetype. 

Honestly, I'm not at all sure we can make this into a sensible argument. There's too much projection of stats.

[KillerLeft]

I don’t know what you’re deal is about PJ to be honest. He’s a career 35% 3PT shooter on 5 attempts per game (which was his own cutoff). The last year the Mavs had competent guard play he was 38% plus. You can say he’s terrible all you want. It doesn’t make it any more true.

You didn't quote me or mention my name, but I assume you're addressing me - it was tough to tell though, because "you can say he's terrible" is something I have literally never done. 

I'm saying he's not a shooter in the sense that you're selling, that's it. His percentage is pretty good for a 3&D guy, which is awesome. I have watched every game he's played as a Mav, which I assume you have, also, and I think he doesn't have enough gravity to offer the kind of space needed with the current mix (Flagg, basically). Nothing to do with his percentage - I think he needs to shoot more, and faster. But, that would make his percentage go down, because it's not his game! That's the whole point. I don't think he fits with Flagg.

[KillerLeft]

Except that he's made it using Klay as the "shooter" rather than an archetype. 

Honestly, I'm not at all sure we can make this into a sensible argument. There's too much projection of stats.

Not sure what you mean here, sorry. 

Are you saying you think Aldama is a better "shooter" than Thompson?

[Scott41theMavs]

There were 11 NBA players who shot 42% or better on threes last year.

So roughly one in three NBA teams had a “top shooter”, using that criteria.

30 players shot 40% or better. So one per team.

Fine. Now look at the stats from 20 or 30 years ago.

I stand by what I said.

[Scott41theMavs]

You didn't quote me or mention my name, but I assume you're addressing me - it was tough to tell though, because "you can say he's terrible" is something I have literally never done. 

I'm saying he's not a shooter in the sense that you're selling, that's it. His percentage is pretty good for a 3&D guy, which is awesome. I have watched every game he's played as a Mav, which I assume you have, also, and I think he doesn't have enough gravity to offer the kind of space needed with the current mix (Flagg, basically). Nothing to do with his percentage - I think he needs to shoot more, and faster. But, that would make his percentage go down, because it's not his game! That's the whole point. I don't think he fits with Flagg.

(Patiently) Have Dirk work with him on his shot, and he might end up as transformed as an outside threat as OG was.

[Mavs32]

You didn't quote me or mention my name, but I assume you're addressing me - it was tough to tell though, because "you can say he's terrible" is something I have literally never done. 

I'm saying he's not a shooter in the sense that you're selling, that's it. His percentage is pretty good for a 3&D guy, which is awesome. I have watched every game he's played as a Mav, which I assume you have, also, and I think he doesn't have enough gravity to offer the kind of space needed with the current mix (Flagg, basically). Nothing to do with his percentage - I think he needs to shoot more, and faster. But, that would make his percentage go down, because it's not his game! That's the whole point. I don't think he fits with Flagg.

i don't disagree with this entirely.  i will say that the space he should receive with this new roster should be a lot more conducive to him being a solid shooter.  it should be less like last year and more like the final run.  with space and time he can absolutely kill teams from 3 (of course he will have his off nights) and be a key cog in a massive defense.