MAVS NEWS: Dudley Signs with Klutch| Unlikely Dud Goes to LAL

[LukaMVP]

Fin and Nico are competent enough to run the FO well. it's the coaching staff we should be concerned about imho.

[Scott41theMavs]

We will find out. With no Cuban and no Lindsey there is not much question who is running the show now. Nico first two years were a disaster and didn’t seem any different than before. It was totally different since Lindsey joined. I think there is valid reason to be concerned.

You hit the nail on the head.

I hate to be Chicken Little, but this announcement of Lindsay's departure feels similar to me to hearing about Tyson to the Knicks in 2011.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Fin and Nico are competent enough to run the FO well. it's the coaching staff we should be concerned about imho.

I agree. Kidd has his moments, and it's possible they could lose Sweeney as he's going to interview with Detroit I hear. He was Casey's assistant there a few years back. Nothing is certain though as Borego, and Bickerstaff are also on the list.

[Chicagojk]

Who knows what role Lindsey had here and if he had any influence. I am all for seasoned advisors. Maybe Nico can bring back Donnie with Cuban out of the way. Ha ha.

Seriously, one of the things we heard about Nico is he was good building a team and identifying smart guys. Lets see if this is true.

[omahen]

He was the de facto #2. They wanted to keep him, they could have paid him and given him the title. It´s still f´n Detroit, no matter how much history he has with Langdon. You can always money-whip coaches, assistants, FO staff. This really concerns me. If we go back to pre-Lindsey Nico/Kidd we could be in trouble. This might be more significant news than anything else this off-season. I just wait for the news to land that we wasted a first on (all due respect) DFS.

Very obviously Lindsey was not #2 in Dallas, no matter what you think of him. That is Finley. We can only hope that Lindsey was not that important or that Nico has learned enough.

[SleepingHero]

MFFL (@Mavs_FFL)
Report: Luka will play on Friday vs Brazil, per @GrantAfseth

No rest for 77

#MFFL

[Mavs2021]

Very obviously Lindsey was not #2 in Dallas, no matter what you think of him. That is Finley. We can only hope that Lindsey was not that important or that Nico has learned enough.

Maybe he was not #2 on paper, but the recent transactions have the finger prints of an veteran executive all over them. I don´t even know what exactly Finley does in Dallas? And I´ll just leave it at that, since the man is a Mavericks legend.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Very obviously Lindsey was not #2 in Dallas, no matter what you think of him. That is Finley. We can only hope that Lindsey was not that important or that Nico has learned enough.

Any time you lose talent, it is concerning.  I do take solace in a few things.

Losing Cuban is probably just as important as losing Lindsey.  At least we won't have the same level of interference (or worse, an owner who views himself as co-GM).

Our caplogist (I think his name is Baker) probably deserves much more credit than he gets here.  Bobby Marks gives him high praise from their days together in Brooklyn.  People on this board can develop the targets.  How many thousand times has someone brought up PJ or Gafford over the years.  It isn't the who, it  is the how.  That is the capologist's job.

We probably give Lindsey too much credit.  The history with Exum was probably critical.  But, what evidence do we have that Lindsey did more than Nico on any of these other guys.  We do have evidence that Nico had a relationship with both Kyrie and PJ that dates back several years.  We do have evidence (reporting) that Nico was well aware of Hardy and Lively at younger ages that pre-date Lindsey's arrival.

I don't know why we tend to crap on certain people around here, but we do.  The more worried we are about Lindsey, the more we are saying Nico can't possibly be smart enough to have done this without him.  I'm nervous, but not necessarily worried.

[omahen]

Any time you lose talent, it is concerning.  I do take solace in a few things.

Losing Cuban is probably just as important as losing Lindsey.  At least we won't have the same level of interference (or worse, an owner who views himself as co-GM).

Our caplogist (I think his name is Baker) probably deserves much more credit than he gets here.  Bobby Marks gives him high praise from their days together in Brooklyn.  People on this board can develop the targets.  How many thousand times has someone brought up PJ or Gafford over the years.  It isn't the who, it  is the how.  That is the capologist's job.

We probably give Lindsey too much credit.  The history with Exum was probably critical.  But, what evidence do we have that Lindsey did more than Nico on any of these other guys.  We do have evidence that Nico had a relationship with both Kyrie and PJ that dates back several years.  We do have evidence (reporting) that Nico was well aware of Hardy and Lively at younger ages that pre-date Lindsey's arrival.

I don't know why we tend to crap on certain people around here, but we do.  The more worried we are about Lindsey, the more we are saying Nico can't possibly be smart enough to have done this without him.  I'm nervous, but not necessarily worried.

My reply was only to a post saying that Lindsay was #2 in Dallas and took a #2 job in Detroit instead, which is obviously not true. 

Other than that, as you say. We can only guess how much was it on Lindsay and we can only hope Nico can do it without him.

[DanSchwartzgan]

My reply was only to a post saying that Lindsay was #2 in Dallas and took a #2 job in Detroit instead, which is obviously not true. 

Other than that, as you say. We can only guess how much was it on Lindsay and we can only hope Nico can do it without him.

I wasn't arguing with you.  Your statement was self-evident.  I just used it as a jumping off point for what I intended to say.

[dirkfansince1998]

Being listed as the GM or president of bball operations doesn't necessarily mean that you are the #1 / #2. Mavs fans should know this because over the years we had Chandler Parsons and Bob Voulgaris making decisions without consulting the GM. Hopefully this ended with the Cuban era and Nico and the Dumont/Adelson family established a clear hierarchy but it is too early to tell.

[RGP1981]

Fin and Nico are competent enough to run the FO well. it's the coaching staff we should be concerned about imho.

So, where's the concrete evidence of Fin and Nico being competent enough to run the FO well? 

I think the coaching staff may have given you more evidence in this past playoffs.

[chaparral]

The Lindsey to DET new makes me think that he was a Cuban hire. And once Cuban was out, so was Lindsey. It just was not reported.

[omahen]

The Lindsey to DET new makes me think that he was a Cuban hire.  And once Cuban was out, so was Lindsey.  It just was not reported.

Lindsay went to a better position, don't think it was really Mavs pushing him out.

Interesting note from Stein in his todays newsletter: Cuban will still be present in Mavs draft war room. I guess they are allowing him to watch others play with the toy

[KillerLeft]

Lindsay went to a better position, don't think it was really Mavs pushing him out.

Interesting note from Stein in his todays newsletter: Cuban will still be present in Mavs draft war room. I guess they are allowing him to watch others play with the toy

I mean, he still owns like 30% of the team, so I’m sure we/they will have to put up with him for the foreseeable future. 

But, as you imply, it’s not the same if he doesn’t have the power to fire the GM or automatically overrule a consensus decision, and if MacMahon’s recent report is correct, that’s now the situation (and maybe has been since the sale went through). 

If true, thats good enough for me, at least for now. I never thought we’d see the day.

[Moviemavguy]

Losing Lindsey is certainly something as we just went to the Finals with him as a piece of the FO. Seemed like there was finally stability.

I hope they can at least find someone else to replace him.

[The Jom]

I mean, he still owns like 30% of the team, so I’m sure we/they will have to put up with him for the foreseeable future. 

But, as you imply, it’s not the same if he doesn’t have the power to fire the GM or automatically overrule a consensus decision, and if MacMahon’s recent report is correct, that’s now the situation (and maybe has been since the sale went through). 

If true, thats good enough for me, at least for now. I never thought we’d see the day.

Something about all this doesn’t make sense to me. Didn’t the majority sale go down at a pretty steep discount from what other NBA teams have been going for? I thought the reason for that was Cuban maintaining control over bball ops. Apparently not.

[KillerLeft]

Something about all this doesn’t make sense to me. Didn’t the majority sale go down at a pretty steep discount from what other NBA teams have been going for? I thought the reason for that was Cuban maintaining control over bball ops. Apparently not.

Yeah, it's all super weird and we'll probably never have super specific, accurate info about any of this. 

Still, if you buy the rumor someone mentioned the other day about how Harrison had planned to give DJJ more years/money but couldn't because Cuban went off half-cocked to sign Seth Curry without even telling anyone (not sure if I buy it, but I can't say it's impossible), that would mean that basically everything difficult about what the Mavs are having to do this summer is directly and overtly Cuban's fault. I could see that causing Dumont to rethink any sort of promises the Adelson's might've offered Cuban with a wink at the time of sale. 

That's another in a long line of huge "on the margin" mistakes, and frankly, just the idea that Curry was targeted feels very much like an old Donnie/Cuban style move, anyway.

[SleepingHero]

Something about all this doesn’t make sense to me. Didn’t the majority sale go down at a pretty steep discount from what other NBA teams have been going for? I thought the reason for that was Cuban maintaining control over bball ops. Apparently not.

The team sold for about 4 billion. That's not a steep discount. The team valuation was around 4.5B. Cuban probably could've gotten an extra billion if he really wanted to given Dallas as a market.

But the unique factors regarding the deal was the apparent interest of the Dumont/Adelson's in building a new stadium/casino in Dallas. Cuban also liked the deal as he apparently still maintained control over basketball operations. That has now since been extinguished and really was a very weird part of the deal. If I was Dumont and I just paid 4 billion bucks for something, why in the hell would I let someone else make the choices?

Truthfully I think Cuban sees the rise of gambling in the US/Sports, recognizes it as a giant cash cow, and thought being able to own 1/4 of a team that will have probably the premier casino/stadium in Dallas was too attractive to pass up. And I think it was a good business choice. He'll make more than 500 mil in asset appreciation if gambling gets legalized in Texas. 

Especially since it was rumored that Cuban was quietly cash poor which led to why the Mavs were run so frugally the last 10 years.

[KillerLeft]

Especially since it was rumored that Cuban was quietly cash poor which led to why the Mavs were run so frugally the last 10 years.

Not to sidetrack the conversation, but even those who have been arguing against this point for the past decade have to acknowledge that this was part of the thinking regarding the sale - Cuban has said as much. Personally, I don't think the trade deadline deals get made without the sale going through, as it now seems like a foregone conclusion that the Mavs are about to be in the luxury tax business.