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(This post was last modified: 3 hours ago by KillerLeft.)
Guys, all of this sounds good...BPA...lots of road ahead...etc.
I'm just saying, I can't watch another season without a PG. I just can't. I think Flagg can be A hub on offense, but I have serious doubts he'll ever be THE hub, and as we know, the game today is played with a lot of ball-handlers, so it's not like some hypothetical future version of Flagg that can run the offense competently is a solution to the problem I'm talking about. More to the point, I think that's not the best way to use Flagg, regardless of whether or not he's up to the challenge. I think that would be giving away a significant portion of what makes him special.
This team NEEDS a PG. Anything is possible once they have one. I don't feel there's much value in caring about anything else until they find a good one. Everything I've gotten semi-excited about - trading for Risacher, for example - has been predicated on the idea that an impact, ball-handling guard, or at least a prospect with potential to become that, will be added this summer.
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(This post was last modified: 3 hours ago by Winter.)
(3 hours ago)KillerLeft Wrote: Guys, all of this sounds good...BPA...lots of road ahead...etc.
I'm just saying, I can't watch another season without a PG. I just can't. I think Flagg can be A hub on offense, but I have serious doubts he'll ever be THE hub, and as we know, the game today is played with a lot of ball-handlers, so it's not like some hypothetical future version of Flagg that can run the offense competently is a solution to the problem I'm talking about. More to the point, I think that's not the best way to use Flagg, regardless of whether or not he's up to the challenge. I think that would be giving away a significant portion of what makes him special.
This team NEEDS a PG. Anything is possible once they have one. I don't feel there's much value in caring about anything else until they find a good one. Everything I've gotten semi-excited about - trading for Risacher, for example - has been predicated on the idea that an impact, ball-handling guard, or at least a prospect with potential to become that, will be added this summer.
Well that's a different conversation I think, but I definitely think you're right. I'm sure the FO knows it too.
I haven't explored free agent PGs for 2026 or who might be a trade candidate (other than C. White). I think there's something to be said for getting a young PG but maybe one who isn't in this 2026 rookie class who might be a good fit in a trade scenario. I don't see a perfect fit, but I hope the FO does.
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(3 hours ago)KillerLeft Wrote: Guys, all of this sounds good...BPA...lots of road ahead...etc.
I'm just saying, I can't watch another season without a PG. I just can't. I think Flagg can be A hub on offense, but I have serious doubts he'll ever be THE hub, and as we know, the game today is played with a lot of ball-handlers, so it's not like some hypothetical future version of Flagg that can run the offense competently is a solution to the problem I'm talking about. More to the point, I think that's not the best way to use Flagg, regardless of whether or not he's up to the challenge. I think that would be giving away a significant portion of what makes him special.
This team NEEDS a PG. Anything is possible once they have one. I don't feel there's much value in caring about anything else until they find a good one. Everything I've gotten semi-excited about - trading for Risacher, for example - has been predicated on the idea that an impact, ball-handling guard, or at least a prospect with potential to become that, will be added this summer.
Is Quickley not a good PG? I know his contract is bad, but his play?
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(3 hours ago)Winter Wrote: Well that's a different conversation I think, but I definitely think you're right. I'm sure the FO knows it too.
I haven't explored free agent PGs for 2026 or who might be a trade candidate (other than C. White). I think there's something to be said for getting a young PG but maybe one who isn't in this 2026 rookie class who might be a good fit in a trade scenario. I don't see a perfect fit, but I hope the FO does.
Yeah, sure. If there's a plan to get one a different way, then by all means, use the pick to draft the best player available. BUT, get the guard you need, even if that means TRADING the pick (in the event there isn't one worth drafting). That's where I am, anyway. I think you need pair a young GUARD with Flagg in order to call this project officially started. I feel that way quite strongly.
It's funny, because when the Mavs had Luka, especially during the first 4 years or so, it seemed like ball-handling guards were a dime a dozen in the league. All of a sudden the right type seems harder to find and identify, and it's starting to really matter how big they are. It always did, I suppose, but even more so these days.
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(3 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: Is Quickley not a good PG? I know his contract is bad, but his play?
Hey, I brought him up a couple of months ago and was laughed out of a thread.
I would take a long hard look at him if that's the best available. I'd look at LaMello, Coby White...pretty much all of them. My hope is that they can identify a Dylan Harper level guy to draft, but they've got to do something.
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(3 hours ago)Winter Wrote: It's possible that the four best PGs in the top of the draft (Peterson, Kingston, Brown, and Acuff) could be gone before the Mavs pick. Acuff has actually moved ahead of Brown on some mock drafts. If a PG is available, it will be one of them - either Acuff of Brown. But after these picks, there's a real gap in talent according to most analysts.
There are also a couple of real wildcards at the center position that still have to play out. Quaintance at Kentucky has had injuries, but he looks like Dwight Howard when he plays. He's a rebounding machine. Also Cenac at Houston who has had an uneven year, but can play all over the court.
There are also some great small forward types that will likely be there when we pick (Braylon Mullins who shoots lights out, and Yaxel Lindeborg who can play at both forward positions, and Keaton Wagler who is a play-making SG guard, but currently not playing PG for Illinois).
But to your personal wish list, the next real PG in the draft is Labaron Philon at Alabama. He may go somewhere in the top 10 or may slip to around 15 or so. So it's possible that the best talent available when the Mavs pick may not be a PG.
If the PGs I listed are gone, I personally would take one of those G-SF types I mentioned rather than look for a PG farther down the list just because he's a PG.
One of the reasons I would like to get another 26 pick is that it might allow you to move up a few spots in the draft to make sure you get the guy you want. If the Mavs continue the tank and end up 7th or better, one of those guys will very likely be there.
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(4 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: That's actually a big deal. Good catch. Quickley also has a $2.5M ULTBE. Poeltl has one also but only $500K. Martin already has a $1.3M ULTBE that counts against the Apron next year, but I think he's needed in a TOR deal if it's Quickley instead of Poeltl.
Working with those numbers, the only realistic trade that includes IQ+RJ is them adding Agbaji. Mavs would need to send back AD, Martin, DLO, BWill OR Exum.
Toronto's Roster looks like this after:
Shead | DLO | BWill
Barnes | Walter | Dick | Temple
Ingram | Martin | Battle
CMB | Mogbo
Davis | Poeltl | Sandro
If you were to make an AD trade with TOR for Barrett+Quickley, without a 3rd team involved, you'd go into next season maybe needing to trade back in the draft, if you're in the 7-8 spot, or make additional trades in the summer to avoid A2. You also might not want a TOR FRP this year, but instead '27, where you currently have none.
Irving | Quickley | Nembhard*
Max | Klay | Hardy
Barrett | Naji | FRP
Flagg | PJW
Lively | Gafford | Cisse*
*Converted Nembhard and Cisse to full roster.
You are right at the second apron with only 14 roster spots. (assuming ~$8M for FRP slot #7)
Edit: There's a simpler version that works but hurts the Mavs even more financially next year. RJ+IQ for Davis+DLO+Hardy
That feels like a move that would ensure this is a good team going forward, but I think it provides less chance for contention than most other trades discussed. The fact that you have a guy making 32 mil a year for the next 4 years as a backup player is a red flag. Talk of trading back on whats likely to be the most important draft for the next 10 years is also a red flag.
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(2 hours ago)mvossman Wrote: That feels like a move that would ensure this is a good team going forward, but I think it provides less chance for contention than most other trades discussed. The fact that you have a guy making 32 mil a year for the next 4 years as a backup player is a red flag. Talk of trading back on whats likely to be the most important draft for the next 10 years is also a red flag.
This is just if the Mavs made 1 move. And it were RJ+IQ centered for Davis. I would think the next move would be Klay for an expiring or much lower salary. Or Gafford, or Naji, or whomever.
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(3 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: Is Quickley not a good PG? I know his contract is bad, but his play?
He is a good player, but not the right fit in my opinion. You want an elite creator at PG next to Flagg, and he is not it. He is also too small to play SG unless your PG has size. I would much rather take a chance on one of the top 4 PGs in the draft than pay Quickley 32 mil for the next 4 years. For that matter, what are you doing on draft night with over 70 mil committed to Kyrie and Quickley?
More importantly, I don't see Toronto giving up Quickley. They have very little depth behind him and I think Dlo would be a hard sell.
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(This post was last modified: 2 hours ago by RoyTarpleysGhost.)
I remember when that Quickley contract was announced, I remember thinking Is there another Immanuel Quickley I'm not aware of? Maybe the most WTF contract I've seen in recent years. I guess they were looking for a Fred Van Vleet replacement.
I don't even think he's a starting level player. He's not a real PG. He's too small to play SG. He's not as skilled as the Jason Terry, Eric Gordon, Jamal Crawford 6th man types. Having $32.5 million AAV on the books for IQ would be pretty devastating.
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(2 hours ago)mvossman Wrote: More importantly, I don't see Toronto giving up Quickley. They have very little depth behind him and I think Dlo would be a hard sell.
I don't disagree but the reports are pretty straightforward. There are only a few ways to make the deal work with Quickley + Barrett. Maybe only the two I posted. Dan's highlight of their ULTBE and what it means for the Mavs who are up against the hard cap make it difficult, unless it's a multi-team deal.
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(2 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: I don't disagree but the reports are pretty straightforward. There are only a few ways to make the deal work with Quickley + Barrett. Maybe only the two I posted. Dan's highlight of their ULTBE and what it means for the Mavs who are up against the hard cap make it difficult, unless it's a multi-team deal.
Did I miss a report specifically about Quickley? I think if Toronto is going to pull the trigger for AD its going to have to be Poeltl and Barrett from their perspective.
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(2 hours ago)mvossman Wrote: Did I miss a report specifically about Quickley? I think if Toronto is going to pull the trigger for AD its going to have to be Poeltl and Barrett from their perspective.
Several. Here was one as soon as I opened Twitter.
@esidery
The Raptors have been actively gauging the trade value of RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley, per @WindhorstESPN
( https://espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47620890...zlies-more).
Toronto continues to be linked to a legit pursuit of Anthony Davis, which works in a potential framework by offering Barrett and Quickley.
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(This post was last modified: 2 hours ago by Smitty.)
The Raptors are the current favorites to trade for Anthony Davis, per @KalshiSports:
Toronto: 33%
Bucks: 22%
Hawks: 15%
Toronto is willing to send the Mavericks RJ Barrett alongside Immanuel Quickley or Jakob Poeltl.
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(2 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: The Raptors are the current favorites to trade for Anthony Davis, per @KalshiSports:
Toronto: 33%
Bucks: 22%
Hawks: 15%
Toronto is willing to send the Mavericks RJ Barrett alongside Immanuel Quickley or Jakob Poeltl.
Does the Toronto offer include sending us draft picks?
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(2 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: The Raptors are the current favorites to trade for Anthony Davis, per @KalshiSports:
Toronto: 33%
Bucks: 22%
Hawks: 15%
Toronto is willing to send the Mavericks RJ Barrett alongside Immanuel Quickley or Jakob Poeltl.
The Bucks? How would that work?
I miss the days when we were talking about Risacher. Barrett + Quickley on those contracts is depressing.
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(1 hour ago)BigDirk41 Wrote: Does the Toronto offer include sending us draft picks?
Smitty suggested one first. I would want at least two.
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(1 hour ago)BigDirk41 Wrote: Does the Toronto offer include sending us draft picks?
I think so. Some may disagree, but at least one unprotected FRP, maybe another protected FRP or a Pick Swap or two.
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1 hour ago
(This post was last modified: 1 hour ago by RoyTarpleysGhost.)
(1 hour ago)BigDirk41 Wrote: Does the Toronto offer include sending us draft picks?
If I'm Toronto, I'm offering Barrett + Poetl + one 1st.
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At least Barrett + Quickley are young and don't play the 4. I wish they weren't paid as much as they are, but it's not like they are scrubs either. I looked at their salaries and looks like Quickly is more overpaid than Barret. I'm hoping something better comes along, but I think I can live with Barrett + Quickley along with one first round pick, but preferably 2. Does Quickly become the 6th man once Kyrie is healthy? Can't play a back court with 2 short guards.
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