(06-16-2023, 12:12 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Again, not really. Joker allows you to completely forego distribution from your backcourt. At the same time, Luka allows you to forego some rebounding from your frontcourt. Ayton is a traditional big. Joker is positively the most unique Big to ever bounce a basketball. That's not "surface"; " a star combination at guard/center" is.
Unstoppable offense? Ayton? Really? How on Earth do you think Ayton after showing you who he is can be part of an "unstoppable offense"? Have you watched him the last 2 years, especially the playoffs. He was benched for Lindale. He should have demolished the Mavs in the 2021/22 playoff series, but was pedestrian at best.
Dude is a $20m/yr player, meaning he has over $40m dead money in his 3 year contract. With the new CBA, do you think we can afford that while having 2 max players in Kyrie/Luka??? There's a reason PHX wants to shed Ayton and CP3... because they have 2 max players in Booker/Durant. So we want to be PHX in their current bad situation? I just don't get it.
My point about surface player to player comparison in your initial reply is that its a different type of comparison than what I was commenting on. You're getting below the surface into more detail now when you compare the players as to how they are used and perform in terms of distribution vs rebounding etc. Not my point at all.
In fact my point was that the way a player, even an elite talented player performs depends a great deal on the role they play in a roster or rotation and the way a coaching staff leverages or fails to leverage their talents.
Your comments for example on Jokic now are in complete retrospect given the results of the way he has performed in Denver and on Ayton its a reflection of the way he's been used in Phoenix with the roster surrounding him there.
As I pointed out if it were so clear how awesomely unique Jokic is and how dominant he would therefore be then he would not ever have been drafted #41 by the great NBA minds would he? Sure its easy to see that now but even a few years ago there was far from universal agreement on how dominant Jokic talents could become. I'm saying that is also due to the excellent way in which Denver leverages his talents, reduces the impact of his weaknesses and surrounded him with a great complementary roster.
Watching Ayton I'm not saying I'm certain but I do see clear potential that he could still live up to his high draft pedigree. Right now playing as a center with ball dominant scoring stars like Devon Booker and now Kevin Durant doesn't necessarily maximize his talents. Centers in particular are very dependent on how they are used or not used.
Paying close attention to Ayton's game, yes I do think Ayton/Luka could very well be as dominant a combo to try and defend as Jokic/Murray. Luka is great at making his 5 man effective IMO however I'm not sure that Kidd is disposed to really press and run an advantage like that into the ground forcing an opponent to stop it.
This is why I said ultimately a different less offensively skilled center might be the choice for Dallas.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/3-r...r-AA1cGZcI
Quote:Deandre Ayton is one of the better centers in the NBA. He’s a respectable defender and is strong on offense. Ayton endured some ups and downs this past season, but was solid overall. He finished the 2022-23 campaign with 18 points per game on 58.9 percent field goal shooting. He also averaged just under one block per contest and added 10 boards per game.
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However, acquiring a big man with scoring and rebounding prowess like Ayton would help Luka Doncic and the Mavericks bounce back quickly. If they re-sign Kyrie Irving, the Mavs would have a legitimate big three.
Even if the Mavs don’t sign Irving though, building around Ayton and Doncic would still lead to the team likely having a chance to compete.
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Former NBA player and current analyst/podcaster JJ Redick agrees, recently stating that Dallas needs a “prototypical modern five.” Ayton may not offer much long-range shooting prowess, but he helps in almost every other regard for the most part.
“The thing that I think they’ve really lacked is that prototypical modern five,” Redick said on The Old Man & the Three podcast on YouTube. “To me, that’s the big you pair with Luka