+10 for a thoughtful and specific response. 
Ok, so if the coaches say stuff we agree with, we can take them seriously but if not then we don't take them seriously?
Well pardon me for taking some remarks at face value.
I could kind of see maybe putting what Pop said as potentially being in the 'say nice things about former player' category which you summarily dismiss, but Van Gundy's remarks can't honestly be put in that category. That is absolutely NOT something you hear coaches say, in fact rarely ever have I heard it. He even went as far as to call not playing Boban more minutes his greatest takeaway as a mistake from his Detroit coaching time.
Doc Rivers also made some very interesting comments about how he played the give some and get some game with Boban on defense and he found that it was no guarantee that the opposing coach would win more than he would lose in trying to take advantage of Boban.
Again, you ignore the fact that Van Gundy had Drummond in front of him and Pop had a guy name Tim Duncan getting a few minutes. Even then, Boban got some starter time when TD was out and performed solidly despite the fact he was much less experienced in the NBA at that point.
In other words there are specific situations where it can be very advantageous having a guy on the floor that is very, very difficult for the defense to stop 1 on 1 even if its for 2 points and free throws.
So then when can put any remarks Shaq makes about big men in the NBA right into the ignore can along with Popovich, Van Gundy and anyone else that doesn't support your presupposition about Boban's usage. Got it.
You're accusing me of ignoring your Zubac argument, which by the way was very generalized and you gave no substantiation other then "I watched the game and he wasn't good against Zubac".
Your Zubac arguments are at least reasonable but not as strong as you seem to think. For one thing, you missed all the details of my argument. When Boban is in the game, he should have his offense leveraged against the opposing big man. Rick Carlisle's offense completely fails to do this for a player like Boban. Burke, or Seth, THJ, even KP, those guys have games that Coach's offense can allow to shine, IF they are hitting.
Zubac would have as much or more difficulty stopping Boban as Boban might have against him. The problem is if Boban is not being leveraged to take advantage of his offense then he's running up the floor setting big screens while his opponent can spend his energy on offense against him.
Additionally if you really watched the game and check the numbers Zubac actually DESTROYED the Mavs even more without Boban on the floor. Truth is your argument is entirely demolished by the facts of Boban's actual performance:
Let's look at the Actual Facts:
Game 1 Mavs loss - Boban plays only 12 minutes yet had 8 friggin rebounds! Throw in 1 of 2 shots and an assist. Are you kidding me? Zubac played 22 minutes to get 10 reb. while got 9 shots and made 5 with an assist.
Game 2 Mavs win - Boban played only 9 minutes yet had 13 points on 6/8 shooting, 9 rebounds and an assist? Your boy Zubac had 18 minutes, double Boban's time but he got 3 points and 4 rebounds. Clearly he killed Boban there.
Again dirkfan you don't take coaches comments or Shaqs comments serious but can you take those numbers seriously?
Game 3 Mavs loss - Zubac 29 minutes 15 pts 6 reb 0 ast. 6 of 8 shooting is very good. Carlisle gave Boban only 9 minutes to get his 3 points 2 reb. and an assist despite his fantastic production in game 2! Who was Zubac killing for 20 of those minutes? It couldn't be Boban because he wasn't in the game. Doh!
Game 4 Mavs win - Zubac 21 minutes 15 pts 4 reb 1 ast. Boban played 15 minutes yet had 10 points on 5/9 shooting and 7 big rebounds.
Game 5 Mavs blowout loss - Zubac 21 minutes 9pts 7 reb on 2/2 and 2 ast. Carlisle gave Boban 17 minutes (there's no more KP) he gets 5 points but notice its on 0/1 shooting 3 reb. and 1 ast.
ONE shot. No offense is run to this man. Zubac has a free run.
Game 6 Mavs elimination loss - Zubac played 33 minutes Boban played 17 (No KP). Uhh, Boban was the problem? Half the time he wasn't even on the floor against Zubac or Harrell!
He still shot 4/7 with 6 reb. and an assist in those 17 minutes. Clearly Zubac was guarded by someone other than Boban and numbers suggest he did NOT kill Boban.
You know this is factual because Boban still didn't get many minutes in general despite Porzingis going out, still less than Zubac in every game. He could take advantage of Harrell who you acknowledge he was often killing. He still sat on the bench and got the same low overall minutes, no matter how well he played when he was on the floor. Coach had him sitting even while Harrell helped destroy the Mavs other defenders, just as Zubac did.
How do you splain those facts professor dirkfan ?
Quote:I think the difference is that I don´t think they are being serious. Coaches say similar things about their former players all the time. Just a few quotes from our very own RC.
Ok, so if the coaches say stuff we agree with, we can take them seriously but if not then we don't take them seriously?
Well pardon me for taking some remarks at face value. I could kind of see maybe putting what Pop said as potentially being in the 'say nice things about former player' category which you summarily dismiss, but Van Gundy's remarks can't honestly be put in that category. That is absolutely NOT something you hear coaches say, in fact rarely ever have I heard it. He even went as far as to call not playing Boban more minutes his greatest takeaway as a mistake from his Detroit coaching time.
Doc Rivers also made some very interesting comments about how he played the give some and get some game with Boban on defense and he found that it was no guarantee that the opposing coach would win more than he would lose in trying to take advantage of Boban.
Again, you ignore the fact that Van Gundy had Drummond in front of him and Pop had a guy name Tim Duncan getting a few minutes. Even then, Boban got some starter time when TD was out and performed solidly despite the fact he was much less experienced in the NBA at that point.
In other words there are specific situations where it can be very advantageous having a guy on the floor that is very, very difficult for the defense to stop 1 on 1 even if its for 2 points and free throws.
Quote:Shaq loves oldschool bigman. I wonder why. They obviously won´t call him a random role player on live TV.
The +/- numbers are easily explained when you look at Harrell and Zubac numbers. I already did it in detail and won´t repeat myself.
...
I have mentioned his great performance in the matchup with Harrell multiples times. Not really sure what else you want me to say. RC rarely used him against Zubac or Green because it did not work as good.
So then when can put any remarks Shaq makes about big men in the NBA right into the ignore can along with Popovich, Van Gundy and anyone else that doesn't support your presupposition about Boban's usage. Got it.
You're accusing me of ignoring your Zubac argument, which by the way was very generalized and you gave no substantiation other then "I watched the game and he wasn't good against Zubac".
Your Zubac arguments are at least reasonable but not as strong as you seem to think. For one thing, you missed all the details of my argument. When Boban is in the game, he should have his offense leveraged against the opposing big man. Rick Carlisle's offense completely fails to do this for a player like Boban. Burke, or Seth, THJ, even KP, those guys have games that Coach's offense can allow to shine, IF they are hitting.
Zubac would have as much or more difficulty stopping Boban as Boban might have against him. The problem is if Boban is not being leveraged to take advantage of his offense then he's running up the floor setting big screens while his opponent can spend his energy on offense against him.
Additionally if you really watched the game and check the numbers Zubac actually DESTROYED the Mavs even more without Boban on the floor. Truth is your argument is entirely demolished by the facts of Boban's actual performance:
Let's look at the Actual Facts:
Game 1 Mavs loss - Boban plays only 12 minutes yet had 8 friggin rebounds! Throw in 1 of 2 shots and an assist. Are you kidding me? Zubac played 22 minutes to get 10 reb. while got 9 shots and made 5 with an assist.
Game 2 Mavs win - Boban played only 9 minutes yet had 13 points on 6/8 shooting, 9 rebounds and an assist? Your boy Zubac had 18 minutes, double Boban's time but he got 3 points and 4 rebounds. Clearly he killed Boban there.
Again dirkfan you don't take coaches comments or Shaqs comments serious but can you take those numbers seriously?
Game 3 Mavs loss - Zubac 29 minutes 15 pts 6 reb 0 ast. 6 of 8 shooting is very good. Carlisle gave Boban only 9 minutes to get his 3 points 2 reb. and an assist despite his fantastic production in game 2! Who was Zubac killing for 20 of those minutes? It couldn't be Boban because he wasn't in the game. Doh!
Game 4 Mavs win - Zubac 21 minutes 15 pts 4 reb 1 ast. Boban played 15 minutes yet had 10 points on 5/9 shooting and 7 big rebounds.
Game 5 Mavs blowout loss - Zubac 21 minutes 9pts 7 reb on 2/2 and 2 ast. Carlisle gave Boban 17 minutes (there's no more KP) he gets 5 points but notice its on 0/1 shooting 3 reb. and 1 ast.
ONE shot. No offense is run to this man. Zubac has a free run.
Game 6 Mavs elimination loss - Zubac played 33 minutes Boban played 17 (No KP). Uhh, Boban was the problem? Half the time he wasn't even on the floor against Zubac or Harrell!
He still shot 4/7 with 6 reb. and an assist in those 17 minutes. Clearly Zubac was guarded by someone other than Boban and numbers suggest he did NOT kill Boban.
You know this is factual because Boban still didn't get many minutes in general despite Porzingis going out, still less than Zubac in every game. He could take advantage of Harrell who you acknowledge he was often killing. He still sat on the bench and got the same low overall minutes, no matter how well he played when he was on the floor. Coach had him sitting even while Harrell helped destroy the Mavs other defenders, just as Zubac did.
How do you splain those facts professor dirkfan ?