Cooper Flagg Highlights Thread

[KillerLeft]

I understand your point ...but I don't think we should really trust what this rando guy says - that's MY point. He is OVER nitpicking by a mile, and - the worst thing in coming to a fair and objective analysis - he further cherrypicks his study to only consider the games in which CF was slowed by severe ankle injuries! Good grief, what scouting drek.

I think you're mostly trying to find reasons to prove 'Why CF cannot be the PG' and to me it makes more sense to consider what's possible, rather than let perfection (or the lack of it) be the enemy of the good.

WAY too much is being made of Flagg's defensive "position." What you play on one end is not necessarily the same matchup position you might occupy on the other end. Then switching is ongoing. All kinds of zones are mixed in as well. The NBA game has become incredibly positionless.

And let's be honest and admit that for the last few years we have had a PG who is about the same size as CF, whose defense at times was almost non-existent, and while we hoped for better, we saw that as acceptable. If Flagg were to be the PG/main creator, his defense on the other end will be worlds better than we've had for many years. That's what I see when I consider the possibility of CF being The Guy. His defense is NOT going to be the obstacle to such a choice at all.

To your paragraph one: I'm not trusting what he says, but what my eyes see. Yes, the examples he used are cherry picked, but he broke down every possession of the tournament to find them, goes out of his way several times to say Flagg IS a good defender with GREAT potential, and admits that he's actively searching for areas in which he could improve. I don't think he's out to prove Flagg can't do ANYTHING, and neither am I. Reacting as if that's the point misses the mark. 

What I'm saying is that there's a role (imo) where Flagg could be generational, and not putting him into that role right away could be a mistake. I'm pretty confident he'll end up there eventually, anyway. And again, with this part I'm talking about DEFENSE, not offense. He IS playing defense like a big in all those clips, basically, and I'm not getting that opinion FROM THE VIDEO. It's an opinion I already had and thought this video (that I randomly came across) might help to illustrate some of what I thought for the group here. That's all. 

To your paragraph two: I was literally the first person in this forum to wonder (in writing) whether or not CF could literally replace Luka in the offense. I don't have a link, but it was like two days after the lottery, and part of me thinks that might be where this is headed. But, that was offensive-related thinking, and even then, I have since come to believe that he's got a ways to go for that to be possible. You disagree, which is fine. Long term, I'm honestly unsure whether or not it makes sense to put the ball in his hands from day 1 (whether he's ready for it or not). I could make a case either way, but I'm pretty sure it will lower the ceiling of this year's team. Whether or not we should care about that is the point of debate, as I see it. 

But, this conversation is about defense, and more specifically, style of defense. The distinction here is important, because it has almost nothing to do with quality of defensive play. Cooper Flagg has flat out not played perimeter defense as a default at any point in his career, and that's so blatantly obvious when you watch him. His training and experience are as a low defender who defends the rim on the help side (like Davis) and can hold up better than most others on switches (like Davis). The thing is, if we're to believe that a lineup of Lively, Davis, Washington and Flagg can work, that's very likely not going to be his job description on that end. Instead, he'll have an entirely new skillset to learn, almost from scratch. This is my concern. I don't even like PJW in that role, and he's significantly more experienced in NBA versatility than Flagg. 

To your paragraph three: I agree, in a sense. He's going to face more switching than ever before now that he's in the NBA, regardless of what position he plays. But, the term "positionless basketball" gets overused and abused to mask less than perfect understanding of what's actually happening out there. Most of the times I've seen that term used, it's by someone who clearly doesn't get where it comes from and why. In reality, the players do still have positions, and those positions have specific responsibilities, and it's still semi-rare and uber valuable to find a player who can play multiple positions at a high level, simply because it's tough to keep track of the various different if/then scenarios that come up in today's ever more organic systems on offense and defense. As an example, a player might be physically able to play both the 4 and the 5, but might struggle to remember that (in their team's system, in certain scenarios) the 4 runs to the rim in transition and the 5 trails the play, hoping to get free above the break for a trailer 3 (this has been a Carlisle staple for years, and it's just one example of the type of thing that can confuse players who are playing different positions). To be clear, the mental part of this doesn't concern me at all with Flagg - I suspect that will be a strength of his, and pretty quickly. I just wonder where he's BEST suited to play in order to achieve dominance as quickly as possible, and wonder if the smart play isn't to put him THERE, regardless of what holes the current roster has. 

To your paragraph 4: Yes, I think Flagg's effort and desire to play defense consistently will make him at least as good as Luka's best moments on defense, and probably better, and probably right away. But, I think with an actual perimeter defender in that spot and Flagg in the back where he's not just comfortable but possibly generational, I think the defense would be much better much sooner. And, shifting back to offense for a second, there was definitely a reason we were able to put up with Luka's terrible defense (let's be honest - this board was in complete denial over that for years). It's because his offense was transcendent, especially his first 3-4 years, before he got too heavy to beat anyone off the dribble. Is Flagg EVER going to beat anyone off the dribble the way young Luka did? Hmmm...I'm not seeing that, personally. 

I could be wrong about any/all of this, but I can guarantee that I've spent hours upon hours carefully considering all angles. I worry that they could potentially be going down the wrong road here (with his early development, of course. Thankfully, they're smart enough to draft him, so nothing they do next year could be too dumb). But then again, I'm just gauging "what they'll do" off of a bunch of message board posts - we have no idea what their actual approach will be. I can't wait to find out!