05-07-2025, 05:06 PM
(05-07-2025, 09:41 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree that only one title, so far, is where his case gets shaky in terms of all-time great.
I don't agree that it should have or should be preventing him from winning MVP's in seasons during which he's clearly the best player in the sport. They gave one he deserved to Embiid, which is a complete joke because nobody is more empty stats/hype than that loser. I think SGA is worthy, but he hasn't won anything yet. If Jokic was getting MVP awards over prime Curry or LeBron, I'd agree he had already won too many, but imho it's pretty tough to find someone who compares in recent years.
Your points are what a lot are saying, but listen to the players themselves. Winning matters most, not stats - they get it.
Some things tend to get overlooked:
1 It's not "who is the best player" but rather "who is the most valuable" -- and value should mean what you do led your team to the best record, or very close to it, as well as titles. One example is Bill Russell, whose stats were never as good as Wilt's, yet BR was the one getting repeated MVP's.
2 "SGA hasn't won a title" is a strawman. I never said anything about a title being a limiter for a 1st MVP. You're talking about a player being given 4!! You can win 1 MVP without a title yet, maybe even 2. But I believe once you get up in the 3-or-more category, you'd better have more titles. Jokic does not, and to me he's capped out on MVP's until his stats bring AT LEAST more trips to the NBA Finals. I'm looking for someone else every year from here on out, no matter how many numbers Jokic piles up on a meh team.
3 As for who else should get MVP's, there are teams in the Finals every year. There are teams with great W/L records in some of those years. And they will have a great player driving them - that's the guy, not the stat monster on a middling-seed playoff team. In fact, when you say "there's no one else to consider," that's circular nonsense, especially when you try to say SGA is not the right MVP, you're minimizing the value of winning and prioritizing mere numbers.
4 One other MAJOR point - in order to win big, players have to sacrifice stats, in favor of team. And if that results in big wins, they may sit out lots of minutes (rather than piling up more stats). That's a fact. Players get it - the job is done when the win is secured, and the sooner the better, NOT when the stats get piled up.