MAVS 108, PELS 92

[Kammrath]

Is the disagreement here about symantics, or no?

Yes absolutely to some extent. I think it is why my position has been consistently misrepresented (I am assuming it is not trolling). 

For me I am a wins/losses guy (point differential guy). It is really the only metric I really care about. I love following Luka and triple doubles as a side thing, but at the end of the day I want a player who impacts winning. For instance, I would rather have Caruso than Westbrook because of that. Westbrook can "outperform" Caruso in a lot of ways, but Caruso will consistently kick Westbrook's butt in impact on winning for his team on both ends. 

Now that doesn't mean other stats and measures don't matter....because they DO and they can be a helpful look under the hood. But at the end of the day point differential stuff tells me about the total state of the car and that is what the NBA cares most about. 



One other historical point: 

When +/- first became a thing it was too quickly hailed as the "Holy Grail" of stats and a LOT of clumsy and hasty misinterpretations ensued. People then started pushing back against that. However, I think many threw out the baby with the bathwater when they pushed back and started acting like it doesn't tell us anything. But the reality is that +/- is indeed the Holy Grail of stats, but that Holy Grail is buried within the context and finding it is a fleeting and contingent thing. You have to keep digging and exploring and examining to get the goods from +/- and it will never tell you anything "for certain" but it will lead you to many conclusions you can count on. So I 100% get the hesitancy with +/- numbers, but that hesitancy should cause us to treat the +/- numbers with more respect and time, not just throw them out or dismiss them. There is a reason that basically all the best advanced metrics incorporate +/- in such a large part...they know how important it is.