John Collins...Our Third Star

[khaled1987]

I hate to say this about someone I dont know at all...but Chris Paul scares me in a way I cant really describe.  I guess I dont trust him.

I can see him doing the Rondo bit on us.

Get paid...then maybe really lose a step and then just kind of not care anymore because he knows the game has passed him.  I would hate for that to be on our books.

Maybe 3 years isnt a big deal and we could absorb it.   Also...does Chris Paul really need extreme athleticism to produce?  Seems like even if he lost a step he could still produce

I am not CP3 biggest fan, but he will be a shorter but less troubling Kidd here. 
Mavs need to take the next step, you aren't going from 1st round exits (in that hypothetical scenario) to championship all of sudden. We need to add a winning veteran. 
CP3 elevated every team he played for, and he will do it again here like he did with the Suns, and like Conley did for Utah eventually.
Would take Lowry too btw, but I doubt he has an interest coming here. Expect him in Miami most likely

[cjeter24]

Chris Paul and Luka won't work together. or it at least won't be optimal. They both run the offense in the same way which is incredibly redundant. We also have no evidence to support that Luka is any good in an offensive role without the ball in his hands. 

Plus it's highly unlikely that Paul would want to leave PHX anyways.

[khaled1987]

 We also have no evidence to support that Luka is any good in an offensive role without the ball in his hands. 

In the NBA, that is correct, but Luka had Dragic and Llull as bigger stars in his early years in Europe.
He never played in such heliocentric offense until he arrived here, we morphed him into that and we need to correct that mistake

[ClutchDirk]

In the NBA, that is correct, but Luka had Dragic and Llull as bigger stars in his early years in Europe.
He never played in such heliocentric offense until he arrived here, we morphed him into that and we need to correct that mistake

This...

[vfromlmf]

1.  Doesn't marginalize Brunson by adding another guard
2.  Provides an important role for Green (Defensive) by not adding another guard
3.  Is a significant upgrade from Maxi who can play next to KP or next to Powell/WCS because of his diverse skills
4.  Allows KP to play his preferred C position and still keep a second big on the floor
5.  Keeps a 20 a night big on the floor on nights KP sits
6.  Is a significant FA win and fulfills Donnie's prediction that outside shooting wings and PF's will want to play with Luka
7.  Lands what is arguably a third star

Revisiting this post-playoffs. 

1. Brunson was marginalized because Luka is going to play 40+ MIN in the playoffs as the lead ball handler. Brunson might see more minutes against a team with a more favorable matchup but he won't get big playoff minutes against big switching teams like the Clippers.

2. Green needs to be a 20 MIN contributor next year and at least see the court in a playoff rotation but I don't think you make free agency decisions around a kid who didn't even play as a rookie.

3. Collins is an upgrade to Maxi on offense but Maxi is a more versatile defender. But what strikes me most about watching the Hawks vs Sixers, is Collins occupies the exact role Carlisle envisioned for KP vs the Clippers. Neither player is a primary initiator or playmaker, neither is the primary screener, and neither player anchors the defense. This would seem to make them redundant. Or you're going to have to ask one of them to change their game.

4. KP can play center against some teams, but clearly not all teams. And I certainly don't think Collins and KP will be any better defensively than Kleber and KP.

5. Valid point but in the modern NBA KP and Collins are both finishers who will get their points off Luka or the occasional offensive rebound. I don't think either player is a guy you want to run a modern offense through.

6. ok ... ?

7. Eh, I don't think so. Collins is a very good, efficient player who arguably does what the Mavs want KP to do, (only he does it better than KP does). He'll get you 20 in the playoffs and find ways to impact the game. But I just think the real stars in today's NBA are guys you can throw it to, and they'll get you a bucket or an open three for a teammate. I just don't see Collins as that guy. I think Collins is an ELITE third guy who will put up efficient numbers.

Most importantly, it's clear from these playoffs the Mavs don't need another guy who will stand in the corner looking for threes or get a few garbage buckets off of offensive rebounds. The Mavs need serious interior defensive help and they need a dynamic secondary creator. Unfortunately, Collins offers neither.

[Mavs2021]

I don´t see the similarities between KP and Collins tbh.

Why you can´t use Collins in a two-man game with Luka? He´s athletic. He can shoot. He is not injury-prone.

I simply do not buy this "we needed Porzingis as a floor spacer" tactics bullcrap. They simply cannot use him in a two-man game with Luka, because the injury-risk would be very high, especially with those dirty cunts from the Clippers.

What are the odds Beverley, PG13, Rondo or Morris don´t accidentally run/fall into Porzingis legs with their full weight, when trying to fight through a Porzingis screen? Virtually zero. What are the odds Porzingis doesn´t get fouled hard on the floor/in the air, when he rolls through traffic, which leads to some bad weight distribution or an awkward landing? Also virtually zero.

It just makes no sense that after Porzingis contributed 24/9 last year against the Clippers with virtually identical rosters on both teams, that they so drastically alter their approach. Unless of course you factor in that Porzingis did get HURT in the series and another injury kills his trade value completely.

[hakeemfaan]

I would rather do whatever it takes to sign Lonzo than save by signing Collins.  I don’t see him being great at any facet of the game once the playoffs start and your team is going against other teams loaded with superstars. Even slight dropoff in talent become magnified then. At least Lonzo gives you more versatility. FWIW I would rather have Capella than Collins ( I know he is not available).

[DanSchwartzgan]

Revisiting this post-playoffs. 

3. Collins is an upgrade to Maxi on offense but Maxi is a more versatile defender. But what strikes me most about watching the Hawks vs Sixers, is Collins occupies the exact role Carlisle envisioned for KP vs the Clippers. Neither player is a primary initiator or playmaker, neither is the primary screener, and neither player anchors the defense. This would seem to make them redundant. Or you're going to have to ask one of them to change their game.

4. KP can play center against some teams, but clearly not all teams. And I certainly don't think Collins and KP will be any better defensively than Kleber and KP.

5. Valid point but in the modern NBA KP and Collins are both finishers who will get their points off Luka or the occasional offensive rebound. I don't think either player is a guy you want to run a modern offense through.

7. Eh, I don't think so. Collins is a very good, efficient player who arguably does what the Mavs want KP to do, (only he does it better than KP does). He'll get you 20 in the playoffs and find ways to impact the game. But I just think the real stars in today's NBA are guys you can throw it to, and they'll get you a bucket or an open three for a teammate. I just don't see Collins as that guy. I think Collins is an ELITE third guy who will put up efficient numbers.

Most importantly, it's clear from these playoffs the Mavs don't need another guy who will stand in the corner looking for threes or get a few garbage buckets off of offensive rebounds. The Mavs need serious interior defensive help and they need a dynamic secondary creator. Unfortunately, Collins offers neither.

Boy a lot has changed in a month.  I differ with you on a few things, though not on your base premise that KP and Collins are not an attractive pairing.  KP's lack or rim protection may have crushed that dream.  The question we are faced with now is who can you pair with KP?  If he can't protect the rim or the perimeter there is no PF who can make both of those things OK.  That is the true unicorn here, because that player truly doesn't exist.  The question is whether you pass on an opportunity for Collins because KP went bad on you.  Or, do you go get a more offensively diverse player and relegate KP to just the things he can actually do (or clean him up to sell when the market for used KP's gets better).

Collins is much more offensively diverse than KP.  He is Powell-like when asked to PnR as the roll man.  He can also PnPop and is in the 89th percentile in 3% ATB and 85th percentile overall from 3.  He can play in isolation, 85th percentile for isolation EFG%.  He can post up, 86th percentile in frequency and 92nd percentile in Post Up Impact.  He is a multi level scorer as a big man.  We just don't know it because he doesn't get that many opportunities in Atlanta.  His rebounding and interior D are decent, but I wouldn't call him a rim protector.  In fact, his Rim Deterrence is in the 37th percentile.  So, you need a specific type of big next to him (he and Myles Turner would be terrific). 

IF (capitalized for emphasis) there is a world in which Atlanta won't pay up for Collins (and there might be).  I think I go get him and figure out what to do with KP later.

[StepBackJay]

I agree to go ahead and get Collins. Figure out KP later. Collins doesn't really solve the problem we have which is playmaker but he might still be an important building block. Mavs can figure out another way to get a playmaker.

[Branduil]

The Mavs need more talent, that much is clear. If there was a young playmaking guard available in free agency I would prioritize him but I don't really see any, so Collins it is. Ideally make the trade happen with matching salaries of Maxi and JRich so you can work over the cap and add a guard with the MLE.

[Kammrath]

Don't doubt JC. Don't do it.

[Scott41theMavs]

Don't doubt JC. Don't do it.

Is he a playmaker/guy who can create his own shot? I do doubt that. Sorry.

[Branduil]

Is he a playmaker/guy who can create his own shot? I do doubt that. Sorry.

You're not wrong, the problem is that guy can't be a free agent until next year. Mavs need to go out and get the best player available. If they do manage to snag Collins, I suspect the other move would be to grab someone like Dragic with the MLE and hope he can hold down the fort during non-Luka minutes (plus hoping that Brunson can learn and improve from his playoff rookie failure).

[Scott41theMavs]

You're not wrong, the problem is that guy can't be a free agent until next year. Mavs need to go out and get the best player available. If they do manage to snag Collins, I suspect the other move would be to grab someone like Dragic with the MLE and hope he can hold down the fort during non-Luka minutes (plus hoping that Brunson can learn and improve from his playoff rookie failure).

I still want Brogdon, but that's a trade issue, not a cap room issue.

I'm more than fine with us obtaining Collins, as long as it has absolutely zero to do with an offer sheet. I am 100% out on tendering him an offer sheet.

[StepBackJay]

So Maxi is probably out for sure. I'd like Dragic but not sure how to get it done. Probably 3 way to send out J Rich, maybe more filler. If we can get Collins and keep that MLE that would be big. I believe Mavs would get a good player for thdt this year.

[Branduil]

As long as the Mavs can get Collins with a salary-matching deal I think Dragic would be easily gettable with the MLE. Miami is gonna decline his option and no one is going to pay more than MLE money for him. And obviously there's the Luka connection.

[loki]

Ok, I'll join in. 

In order to add Powell for salary matching you could try sending him to Minnesota along with Brunson for Rubio. Atlanta will be looking for a veteran backup PG anyway. I don't expect Richardson to opt in so his expiring might not be available to use.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Don't see why everyone is enamored with Collins. He hasn't shown me much, but inconsistency.  Tobias Harris has been giving him the business. He wants a boatload of $$ and hasn't played well enough to be a max player at this point. IMO.

[Mavs2021]

Don't see why everyone is enamored with Collins. He hasn't shown me much, but inconsistency.  Tobias Harris has been giving him the business. He hasn't played well enough to be a max player at this point. IMO.

Yeah I´m good taking my chances with the 23 year old that is averaging 14 PPG in the play-offs shooting 57% from the field, 40% from three and 95% from the line, while playing against two top 5 defensive teams. Harris is playing right to his season averages, too.

We need two young players with All-Star potential and John Collins is exactly that.

[Chicagojk]

Don't see why everyone is enamored with Collins. He hasn't shown me much, but inconsistency.  Tobias Harris has been giving him the business. He wants a boatload of $$ and hasn't played well enough to be a max player at this point. IMO.

I don't get the fascination either.   Collins makes some really impressive plays with jaw opening athleticism.  But Trae Young gives him a lot of easy baskets....as would Luka.   He has played really well against the Mavs and I guess there could be an argument that he would excel with more opportunity.    I just think there is a limit on his upside.  I just wouldn't pay 25-30 million for it.  I think he plays a position that can get easy lost in the shuffle as well.   I think he is a 16 and 7 type of player on a good team with no real shot creation and nothing special defense.   

I also think it is important to note the the Hawks really took off when he is the 4th or 5th most important player rather than the second.  Also that the Hawks seem to realize long term he is expendable.  

I could certainly be wrong, but I would not like an offseason built around giving Collins plus assets at 25-30 million.