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NBA insider Jake Fischer is convinced Irving will be a key trade candidate for many teams before the deadline. "I still believe that Kyrie Irving is someone we are going to be talking about through the February 11th trade deadline as a trade target for rival teams," Fischer said on Bleacher Report. "He just does not fit the timeline; he is almost a decade and a half older than Cooper Flagg. He himself is going into the end of a very lucrative contract where he wants to get paid."
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Brandon Miller is reportedly looking to secure a new contract closer to the rookie max extension he is eligible for from the Charlotte Hornets. "I know that Miller has certainly been seeking more than that deal. That Miller has been seeking close to a max contract," NBA insider Jake Fischer said on Bleacher Report. " ... I think it's going to be very challenging for the Hornets to get anywhere below that five-year, $200 million threshold that Miller is seeking."
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Shams Charania: Boston Celtics guard Payton Pritchard has agreed to a two-year, $44.2 million contract extension, plus a mutual option in the 2029-30 season, CAA Co-Head of Basketball Austin Brown and agent Max Saidman tell ESPN. Pritchard was capped at around $67 million over three years. Most veteran extensions are capped at 140% of the salary in the final year of their existing deal... but Pritchard's last deal was so low that it's instead extending off 140% of the estimated average player salary.
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(This post was last modified: 9 hours ago by michaeltex.)
(9 hours ago)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: NBA insider Jake Fischer is convinced Irving will be a key trade candidate for many teams before the deadline. "I still believe that Kyrie Irving is someone we are going to be talking about through the February 11th trade deadline as a trade target for rival teams," Fischer said on Bleacher Report. "He just does not fit the timeline; he is almost a decade and a half older than Cooper Flagg. He himself is going into the end of a very lucrative contract where he wants to get paid."
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If DAL is playing well, everyone is healthy and they are around 0.500 w/l then I think Kyrie is untradeable. He's still a strong contributor, vocal team leader, has Dusty's confidence, doesn't seem to be blocking anyone's development and a must-see player, so I think DAL will be more about how to give him an extension rather than trade him away.
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(9 hours ago)michaeltex Wrote: If DAL is playing well, everyone is healthy and they are around 0.500 w/l then I think Kyrie is untradeable. He's still a strong contributor, vocal team leader, has Dusty's confidence, doesn't seem to be blocking anyone's development and a must-see player, so I think DAL will be more about how to give him an extension rather than trade him away.
But, isn't that the scenario under which his value would be highest?
I struggle to find the deal I'm in love with, but if they come across such a deal, I'm not sure current season success will stand in the way of adding the right long-term piece. That was one of the things I hated about Cuban. The heat of the current moment dictated long term direction. Hopefully, Masai has enough skins on the wall to stay with the strategy over short term gains.
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(8 hours ago)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: But, isn't that the scenario under which his value would be highest?
I struggle to find the deal I'm in love with, but if they come across such a deal, I'm not sure current season success will stand in the way of adding the right long-term piece. That was one of the things I hated about Cuban. The heat of the current moment dictated long term direction. Hopefully, Masai has enough skins on the wall to stay with the strategy over short term gains.
It is, but it is also the scenario that makes it hardest to trade Kyrie, absent any expressed desire from him. If there is chemistry, growth and competitiveness, it's going to be hard to make the case for moving him unless there is another generational talent (or pathway to one) to fill his spot.
After the over reaction to Luka's rookie season, where they moved everyone to acquire Porzingis so DAL could have their "big 2" only to culminate in what happened the last few years, I hope for a little patience.
Of course there is always a Godfather offer, but those usually have hidden price tags.
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The variable we're not taking seriously enough, and that even Fisher only mentions in passing, is: What does Kyrie expect for his next contract? It makes NO sense to pay him as a star and get stuck holding that bag before Flagg is even in his prime, imo. If Kyrie wants to give a year or two at significantly under market value so that he won't be an albatross to team building afterwards as he finishes his next contract, then I suppose it's worth a conversation - there are benefits to keeping him around under those circumstances.
But, IDK...I just feel like that's very unlikely. I think it's far more likely that he'll want one more big payday, and that it will make a lot more sense for a good team who views him as the finishing piece to pay it. We can argue about whether the Mavs will win 33 or 43 this season, but they are at least two years away from winning 50 or 60. Simply put, they are only relevant because they have one of the better, up and coming YOUNG players in the league, which is just another way of saying they are not relevant.
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(6 hours ago)KillerLeft Wrote: The variable we're not taking seriously enough, and that even Fisher only mentions in passing, is: What does Kyrie expect for his next contract? It makes NO sense to pay him as a star and get stuck holding that bag before Flagg is even in his prime, imo. If Kyrie wants to give a year or two at significantly under market value so that he won't be an albatross to team building afterwards as he finishes his next contract, then I suppose it's worth a conversation - there are benefits to keeping him around under those circumstances.
But, IDK...I just feel like that's very unlikely. I think it's far more likely that he'll want one more big payday, and that it will make a lot more sense for a good team who views him as the finishing piece to pay it. We can argue about whether the Mavs will win 33 or 43 this season, but they are at least two years away from winning 50 or 60. Simply put, they are only relevant because they have one of the better, up and coming YOUNG players in the league, which is just another way of saying they are not relevant. I think he's making $50M-ish this season. If he contributes at a level equal to pre-injury Kyrie, what is he worth then? Two more at the same salary point? Something lower? IDK what his "market" value is/will be or how one can establish that number.
If Kyrie is the #2 behind Flagg, is that a problem for a couple years? If you trade him or don't re-sign him, what's the path to restoring his contributions? Hope somebody like De Larrea develops? That's going to take a season or two to sort out, IMO, so having Kyrie's talent and experience around isn't a bad thing.
Given the off court controversies in NY, I was leery of bring Kyrie to DAL. But he's won me over and the younger guys seem to really respond to him. FWIW, I think he's worth more than just what his on court stats tell us.
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I don't know if Dallas would be interested, but I wonder if OKC will eventually move on from Topic. With a rookie guard with Shai, JDub, Mitchell, Cason Wallace, Caruso, McCain, and Rookie Stirtz it seems like there are no minutes for Topic.
Topic has his own issues. Knee injury prior to draft. Cancer and back injury since joining the NBA. He was once considered an excellent prospect. Dallas lacks the roster spot but does have the MLE. I wonder if they would ever consider a gamble on a guy who is buried and may just need a change of scenery. Feels like a move that OKC could look later this year if Topic is not in the rotation.
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(6 hours ago)michaeltex Wrote: FWIW, I think he's worth more than just what his on court stats tell us.
At this moment in time, I could not agree more. Having Vets. Not just any veteran player, but an established leader that is respected and as talented as Kyrie brings a ton of value for such a young team. Learning how to be a pro. Handling road trips/away games the right way. The ups and downs of on-court performance and how to stay the course. Balancing work/life... especially with being young, rich, and traveling half the year. How to respond to coaching at the highest level. How to approach training the right way. Practice. Treating everyone on the staff with respect. Handling the media. Carrying yourself the right way.
I could go on and on.... and I'm not saying every 19-20-21 year old needs a mentor/Vet to act right or be a pro's pro, but I think there's something to having veteran leadership with soooooo many young guys on the team. Kyrie checks a lot of boxes and I'm glad he's wearing a Mavs uniform.
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(5 hours ago)Smitty Wrote: At this moment in time, I could not agree more. Having Vets. Not just any veteran player, but an established leader that is respected and as talented as Kyrie brings a ton of value for such a young team. Learning how to be a pro. Handling road trips/away games the right way. The ups and downs of on-court performance and how to stay the course. Balancing work/life... especially with being young, rich, and traveling half the year. How to respond to coaching at the highest level. How to approach training the right way. Practice. Treating everyone on the staff with respect. Handling the media. Carrying yourself the right way.
I could go on and on.... and I'm not saying every 19-20-21 year old needs a mentor/Vet to act right or be a pro's pro, but I think there's something to having veteran leadership with soooooo many young guys on the team. Kyrie checks a lot of boxes and I'm glad he's wearing a Mavs uniform.
I think it goes to building a team culture. It's been a hodge podge for years now, first Luka, then Luka's injury issues, the THE TRADE, then AD's absence and Kyrie's injury then the management turnover. Now that these changes are behind us, I'm hopeful the reset over the summer will provide the basis for the future success.
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5 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 3 hours ago by KillerLeft.)
(6 hours ago)michaeltex Wrote: If Kyrie is the #2 behind Flagg, is that a problem for a couple years? If you trade him or don't re-sign him, what's the path to restoring his contributions? Hope somebody like De Larrea develops? That's going to take a season or two to sort out, IMO, so having Kyrie's talent and experience around isn't a bad thing.
Again, the issue is: what's the next deal? I think $50m per for even two years is steep, especially considering they will not be competitive during those two years (although I agree with the potential benefits of his veteran leadership, and agree that could move the team along their rebuild more quickly). But, three years? Four? MORE than that dollar amount?
No, thank you. Signing Kyrie to his last deal, milking the last bits of greatness out of him (during likely sub .500 seasons) and then having to wait out the last couple of years of a contract that he isn't worth (just as things are starting to get interesting, we hope) is the absolute worst case scenario.
The reality is that they're in the situation you describe (hoping somebody like De Larrea develops) already. Right now. It's so clear that Kyrie won't still be great the next time the team is relevant that I'm tempted to call it fact, though technically it is not. If he wants to take "retire as a Mav on the Mavs' terms" money, it's worth a good, healthy consideration, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Kyrie adressed this openly at media day. He knows that he is much older than Flagg and what that means in terms of NBA team building. It is a good thing that everybody from the organization keeps saying the right things throughout this process so far.
Of course it is possible that Kyrie finishes his career here IF the Mavs can ascend to contender status quickly but that is a long shot at this point. The reality is that he might very well still be an allstar caliber player. Moving on from that would be hard but there are scenarios where it can end up being the best for the future of the organization.
But for now that is not the priority. The new season is right around the corner and the best that can happen for everybody involved is Kyrie and the Mavs getting off to a good start.
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(4 hours ago)JamesConway816 Wrote: Kyrie adressed this openly at media day. He knows that he is much older than Flagg and what that means in terms of NBA team building. It is a good thing that everybody from the organization keeps saying the right things throughout this process so far.
Of course it is possible that Kyrie finishes his career here IF the Mavs can ascend to contender status quickly but that is a long shot at this point. The reality is that he might very well still be an allstar caliber player. Moving on from that would be hard but there are scenarios where it can end up being the best for the future of the organization.
But for now that is not the priority. The new season is right around the corner and the best that can happen for everybody involved is Kyrie and the Mavs getting off to a good start.
I agree with all of this, and unfortunately, the nature of how conversations run their course here has a way of funneling folks into one of two extremes on each topic.
I do think Kyrie is in a position to add significant value to the rebuild at this time - I get all of that. I'm way less hopeful than some that anything they'll achieve this season will even moderately resemble competitiveness, but the presence of high level veteran experience and leadership in the form of NBA royalty has value, of course.
It's just that my read of the tea leaves me feeling the most likely outcome is that it will be best for all parties, Kyrie included, to move him along to a team actually in contention at the deadline (if he stays healthy that long). I strongly feel that his value to other teams will start to diminish quickly past that point, along with his ability to secure the type of contract he's wanting. I could be wrong, and none of this should be taken as lack of desire to see him play well in a Mavs uniform.
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(6 hours ago)KillerLeft Wrote: The variable we're not taking seriously enough, and that even Fisher only mentions in passing, is: What does Kyrie expect for his next contract? It makes NO sense to pay him as a star and get stuck holding that bag before Flagg is even in his prime, imo. If Kyrie wants to give a year or two at significantly under market value so that he won't be an albatross to team building afterwards as he finishes his next contract, then I suppose it's worth a conversation - there are benefits to keeping him around under those circumstances.
But, IDK...I just feel like that's very unlikely. I think it's far more likely that he'll want one more big payday, and that it will make a lot more sense for a good team who views him as the finishing piece to pay it. We can argue about whether the Mavs will win 33 or 43 this season, but they are at least two years away from winning 50 or 60. Simply put, they are only relevant because they have one of the better, up and coming YOUNG players in the league, which is just another way of saying they are not relevant.
I think this ^ is Chicken Little level stuff. We have been through this "Oh me, oh my, how can they ever re-sign Kyrie" alarmism for two go-rounds now, and each time (despite media clickbait proclaiming gloom and doom) it was a major nothing burger all the way, for the Mavs to get him to sign on at a very reasonable number.
I pushed back before, and I am pushing back again. The contract won't be an issue.
The only issue as I see it would be if the Mavs are awful, and Kyrie wants out because he's tired of losing. That's always possible. But if CF is who we think he is, and the team is showing growth and a rise in the standings, I expect both parties will be comfortable continuing the partnership with no drama.
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To set the record straight on what Kyrie makes, it isn't $50mm per and won't be in his next contract either. His current year salary is $39.5mm and his PO is $42.4mm for 27/28. FG is right in that he's been reasonable to work with the last two negotiations. To me, the questions are "highest and best use" and "best timing".
The fact that he isn't locked up for 27/28 cuts the other way too. Kyrie is essentially a rental at the TDL. Our dreams of a promising young player, some expiring salary and multiple firsts aren't likely to be realized given that status. So, the TDL may not be the best timing. But, waiting until the summer injects some level of risk. I worry more about years than money. What if he wants three years or two plus a PO after that? What if he sees greener pastures somewhere else next summer. It doesn't seem likely given how well things have gone here to date, but we wouldn't be the first fan base that ended up with a bad taste in their mouth should he change his mind. I believe he could be extended in-season if he dropped his PO first, but am not positive. You don't do that now, but after several months of good play and good health?
Next is figuring the relative value of his cultural influence and personal lift to the current near term versus the assets he might bring back. I think Killer is right that the timeframe that really starts to matter is likely after Kyrie's time here. He's absolutely valuable to that window of time as many have pointed out. I'm not absolute in my opinion here because it depends on the package. I don't have an issue paying him $80mm over the 27/28 and 28/29 seasons. Signing such a deal gives additional opportunities to trade him later. HOWEVER, if there is a deal on the table that provides a path to Flagg's eventual co-star, I don't say no to that. That is Job One and Kyrie is the most likely path to achieving that. Since we have no idea what the deals might look like, I'm holding fairly loosely to anything specific. It is more of a I'll know it when I hear it and until then, I'm happy to keep doing what we are doing. But, I'm also not in the camp that you blindly hold onto him because he's too valuable to the near term.
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1 minute ago
(This post was last modified: Less than 1 minute ago by windjc.)
I mean if a teams wants to give up 5-6 first round picks or a potential all-star and 3-4 first round picks I think Dallas should take it. Otherwise I am content letting Kyrie stick around 3-5 more years. He might be 34 but he has the mileage on his body of a 30-31 year old. He’s like a beautiful finely-tuned classic that’s spent a lot of time in the garage.
Yeah, yeah all you “but,but,but we’d never get that for Kyrie”. Ok, then he stays and I’m fine with that.
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