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[KillerLeft]

If you look at the roster like this, does it make more sense?

Kyrie | Sasser | Sergio | Nemby
Christie | Klay | (Poulakidas)
Flagg | Naji | Tarik | Martin
PJW | Aldama | (Lawal)
Gafford | Morez | Lively | (Cisse)

I know the big pushback is Lively 3rd on the depth chart, but the sooner everyone gets on board with my thinking, the better. He will be at best a 50 game player at ~16 mpg. Hence the need for Cisse on a two-way, because Gafford isn’t playing 82 either.

Sasser, Sergio, Nemby can fight all season for playing time - put them in whatever order you’d like. PJ and Aldama cover the 4 minutes, if either are out, then Flagg slides down or Morez up, and Tarik gets more run.

I think that's the right of it, for now. 

I just don't think it works, at least not ideally. Nothing to do with the center position - regardless of the order, that's exactly who I'd have there. 

Flagg and PJW are just such a clunky fit to me, and I have almost no interest in watching them run offense through Marshall (although I suppose that could look better with better spacing).

[Smitty]

I think that's the right of it, for now. 

I just don't think it works, at least not ideally. Nothing to do with the center position - regardless of the order, that's exactly who I'd have there. 

Flagg and PJW are just such a clunky fit to me, and I have almost no interest in watching them run offense through Marshall (although I suppose that could look better with better spacing).

I’m not against swapping PJ and Aldama. Does that make the 5-man lineup for the starting 5 and bench unit even better… I think I like it to be honest.

[KillerLeft]

I’m not against swapping PJ and Aldama. Does that make the 5-man lineup for the starting 5 and bench unit even better… I think I like it to be honest.

It has more synergy, but I think your first take on it is more likely, because PJ is PJ. And, he's probably the best wing defender in the starting group (though I have always thought he guarded better UP than DOWN). 

This is why I'm so into the Peyton Watson idea (far fetched as it might be). I think him at the 3 and Flagg at the 4 accomplishes everything you like about the Flagg/PJW fit, but without most of the downside. He's all 3 to me. A wing, basically. I know he's really similar to PJW at a glance, but the devil is in the details and I just can't help but to think it would be a major upgrade.

Idk...maybe May can convince PJW to shoot. As you've pointed out, he hits enough of them, but he was definitely part of the problem last year, passing up on sooooo many open looks. Marshall will always choose dribbling into traffic over shooting open shots, I think.

[Winter]

That lineup (for me) would work better with a SF who shoots better than PJW. I think the Mavs inside game feels pretty strong with that roster, but starting PJ as the SF does not feel ideal. So I guess I agree with Killer in that regard.

Edit: My response came before your post, but it looks like you feel similar

[Smitty]

It has more synergy, but I think your first take on it is more likely, because PJ is PJ. And, he's probably the best wing defender in the starting group (though I have always thought he guarded better UP than DOWN). 

This is why I'm so into the Peyton Watson idea (far fetched as it might be). I think him at the 3 and Flagg at the 4 accomplishes everything you like about the Flagg/PJW fit, but without most of the downside. He's all 3 to me. A wing, basically. I know he's really similar to PJW at a glance, but the dvil is in the details and I just can't help but to think it would be a major upgrade.

Oh… I like Watson. I just know it’s not happening. 

I think defensively there’s no argument that Flagg needs to defend the biggest, not as shifty Forward. Be a roamer/backside rim protecter. PJ is excellent guarding other Wings. He struggles with the smaller guards IMO. I think he’s good against SGA for example. 

The weakest link is Max. If he were Cason Wallace — then all of it works defensively. But again, not happening.

[KillerLeft]

Oh… I like Watson. I just know it’s not happening. 

I think defensively there’s no argument that Flagg needs to defend the biggest, not as shifty Forward. Be a roamer/backside rim protecter. PJ is excellent guarding other Wings. He struggles with the smaller guards IMO. I think he’s good against SGA for example. 

The weakest link is Max. If he we’re Cason Wallace — then all of it works defensively. But again, not happening.

Seems like we're pretty close to seeing it the same way.

On defense, my goal would be to keep Flagg as "low" as possible to take advantage of his weak side rim protection. On offense, my goal would be to force a slower player onto him as often as possible, ESPECIALLY if my plan is to run the offense through him. I think PJW gums up both goals...maybe not horribly, but enough for me to overthink all of this.

[Scott41theMavs]

If you look at the roster like this, does it make more sense?

Kyrie | Sasser | Sergio | Nemby
Christie | Klay | (Poulakidas)
Flagg | Naji | Tarik | Martin
PJW | Aldama | (Lawal)
Gafford | Morez | Lively | (Cisse)

I know the big pushback is Lively 3rd on the depth chart, but the sooner everyone gets on board with my thinking, the better. He will be at best a 50 game player at ~16 mpg. Hence the need for Cisse on a two-way, because Gafford isn’t playing 82 either.

Sasser, Sergio, Nemby can fight all season for playing time - put them in whatever order you’d like. PJ and Aldama cover the 4 minutes. If either are out, then Flagg slides down or Morez up, and Tarik gets more run.

The big thing I don't buy about how you set this up is Ishchenko neither on the main roster neither as a two-way. 

If, by the end of the season, Morez hasn't earned a starting spot, that will make it pretty clear we wasted our pick.

[KillerLeft]

The fit with Aldama is promising as a means to create space without losing size. Could work in both a mega lineup, with Aldama at the 4 and a stretch lineup, with Aldama at the 5. Flagg could benefit from both of those approaches, if/when they're used. But, I don't think Aldama is going to take PJW's spot, or many of his minutes.

I'm not really in a twist about it, but I can't shake the feeling that PJW is a little in the way. I'm not at all suggesting he's in Aldama's way, but if it were me I'd be looking for two things at this point: 1) a ball-handling guard (we've discussed this to death) and 2) a long, athletic 2/3 or just a 3...a wing, if that's what you want to call it.

I'd still want to play Flagg at that 4 spot, but like I said the other day my mind is more open about this than it was at the beginning of the summer.

[Smitty]

The big thing I don't buy about how you set this up is Ishchenko neither on the main roster neither as a two-way. 

If, by the end of the season, Morez hasn't earned a starting spot, that will make it pretty clear we wasted our pick.

Yeah, it comes down to Ishchenko or Cisse for the last two-way. They gave the QO to Cisse, but didn’t draft/choose him. They did pay money for a pick to nab Ish. A lot of it may depend on what Ish does in summer league. Idk, I just feel like Cisse has a path to minutes for this team and Ish can be stashed and developed some more. That’s my thought process anyway…

Also, Morez can absolutely start over Gafford. Idc about that part at all. Matter of fact, I like the suggestion.

[KillerLeft]

If, by the end of the season, Morez hasn't earned a starting spot, that will make it pretty clear we wasted our pick.

I might've had Johnson in as the starter, too, because it just feels like he might be the only top-10 pick not to start. But, I don't care about the depth chart there. We'll see what they do. Lively is obviously the best player, at least for now, but with his health concerns, Smitty is suggesting he'll be "managed." It's possible, but I think it would be hard to resist playing him 25-30 minutes when healthy. But, he might not even be there to start the season, so there's no point arguing this for now. 

I think Gafford/Johnson are likely to look VERY similar on offense early on, with Johnson hopefully developing more offensive utility pretty quickly. Defensively, I expect Johnson to be better almost right away, but I imagine there will be growing pains with foul trouble and such. Mix in Gafford's status on the team and league, and again, Lively maybe not being ready right away, and I can see Gafford starting opening night for sure.

[Winter]

The big thing I don't buy about how you set this up is Ishchenko neither on the main roster neither as a two-way. 

If, by the end of the season, Morez hasn't earned a starting spot, that will make it pretty clear we wasted our pick.

Regardless of how it looks now, I think Ishchenko will end up on a two-way if he plays well, and I think Rez likely have a starting spot pretty quickly - or at least significant minutes.

[cow]

Still feels like we need a move or two as we are light in the pants in the shot creation department.

[Winter]

I think Gafford/Johnson are likely to look VERY similar on offense early on, with Johnson hopefully developing more offensive utility pretty quickly. Defensively, I expect Johnson to be better almost right away, but I imagine there will be growing pains with foul trouble and such. Mix in Gafford's status on the team and league, and again, Lively maybe not being ready right away, and I can see Gafford starting opening night for sure.

I think the defensive rebounding is going to change the most. Gafford is simply too one-dimensional to stay on the court more minutes than Johnson.

[KillerLeft]

Yeah, it comes down to Ishchenko or Cisse for the last two-way. They gave the QO to Cisse, but didn’t draft/choose him. They did pay money for a pick to nab Ish. A lot of it may depend on what Ish does in summer league. Idk, I just feel like Cisse has a path to minutes for this team and Ish can be stashed and developed some more. That’s my thought process anyway…

Also, Morez can absolutely start over Gafford. Idc about that part at all. Matter of fact, I like the suggestion.

I agree that Cisse needs to be kept, and in fact, I'd still prefer to get him on a real contract while he's dirt cheap. In a world where Lively becomes completely healthy OR Johnson becomes a stud or even BOTH, Gafford will be moved, eventually, and Cisse will be needed. 

Frankly, I'm not scared to roll with Cisse as the 2nd center for stretches, even, when someone is injured. Especially now that Aldama is in the mix as a sometimes stretch 5.

[KillerLeft]

I think the defensive rebounding is going to change the most. Gafford is simply too one-dimensional to stay on the court more minutes than Johnson.

He's an abysmal defensive rebounder, I agree. I don't even really hold that against bigs all the time, but when your whole bag is "traditional, big, physical center" I think rebounding kind of needs to be part of your package. He's a very good offensive rebounder, to be fair.

[cow]

I agree that Cisse needs to be kept, and in fact, I'd still prefer to get him on a real contract while he's dirt cheap. In a world where Lively becomes completely healthy OR Johnson becomes a stud or even BOTH, Gafford will be moved, eventually, and Cisse will be needed. 

Frankly, I'm not scared to roll with Cisse as the 2nd center for stretches, even, when someone is injured. Especially now that Aldama is in the mix as a sometimes stretch 5.

Everyone knows I love an underdog and I really enjoy Cisse's hustle, but I don't see him as a rotational piece.

[KillerLeft]

Everyone knows I love an underdog and I really enjoy Cisse's hustle, but I don't see him as a rotational piece.

Man, I do!

This latest batch of center signings in the $4 million range...Nance Jr., Drummond, etc...give me Cisse over ANY of those dudes.

[Smitty]

He's an abysmal defensive rebounder, I agree. I don't even really hold that against bigs all the time, but when your whole bag is "traditional, big, physical center" I think rebounding kind of needs to be part of your package. He's a very good offensive rebounder, to be fair.

PJ makes up for some of it though. An excellent rebounder as a forward. Aldama is also a great rebounder. Something that probably gets overlooked some. I think rebounding is a big deal. It certainly was in the playoffs this year.

[Mavs2021]

Yeah, it comes down to Ishchenko or Cisse for the last two-way. They gave the QO to Cisse, but didn’t draft/choose him. They did pay money for a pick to nab Ish. A lot of it may depend on what Ish does in summer league. Idk, I just feel like Cisse has a path to minutes for this team and Ish can be stashed and developed some more. That’s my thought process anyway…

Also, Morez can absolutely start over Gafford. Idc about that part at all. Matter of fact, I like the suggestion.

I don´t think they are done. There is still a post LeDecision FA phase that has not even begun yet, where all the veterans are distributed.

[cow]

Man, I do!

This latest batch of center signings in the $4 million range...Nance Jr., Drummond, etc...give me Cisse over ANY of those dudes.

For our team, sure.  And I'm not saying there is no upside, but he feels more like a feel-good story than anything else at this point.