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(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: Why does it matter that the Mavs have young players every year if a class is bad? Would you really be cool with trading Kyrie for a Bub Carrington or Rob Dillingham? Because that's what you're advocating.
Because every draft there is more than one guy not drafted in the top-5 or even the lottery who turns out to be a very good player, and we now have a competent front office. And no one is trading for Kyrie before this draft, I don't even think we should trade him at all. But we need to find a way to keep a steady pipeline of young talent coming in for Cooper.
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I saw this idea elsewhere...really more of a fan invention than an actual rumor.
Giddey + 15 for Gafford + 9
Dallas gets a taller PG who makes great sense next to Kyrie. He's only 24, so not ancient. Dallas has to add a tiny bit of salary, so A J Johnson? Giddey is more valuable than Gafford. So the spread in value between 9 and 15 is the compensation that makes up for that difference. There will be a very good big on the board at 15 to backfill Gafford. It could turn into something roughly equivalent to trading Dennis Smith at 9 for Bam at 14 while at the same time getting a middle of the pack starter at PG.
Chicago needs a center. They also get to reset a little youner around 4, 9 and Buzelis (and to a lesser extent Dillingham and Essengue). New management might or might not value Giddey the same as the prior folks and may not want to go through another negotiation...especially without leverage from Giddey being a RFA.
Giddey definitely has some holes. D isn't great and he doesn't bring much shooting gravity to the table. But, he drops some dimes and will be fantastic with Flagg on the break. 19/10/9 per 36 isn't nothing. I get that we like our shiny new toy at 9 and it will be hard to change course mentally. But are we sure the worst of these guards is going to be as good as Giddey? He certainly won't be 6' 8" and a good fit day one next to Kyrie the same way Giddey will. I found this intriguing.
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(Yesterday, 10:25 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I saw this idea elsewhere...really more of a fan invention than an actual rumor.
Giddey + 15 for Gafford + 9
Dallas gets a taller PG who makes great sense next to Kyrie. He's only 24, so not ancient. Dallas has to add a tiny bit of salary, so A J Johnson? Giddey is more valuable than Gafford. So the spread in value between 9 and 15 is the compensation that makes up for that difference. There will be a very good big on the board at 15 to backfill Gafford. It could turn into something roughly equivalent to trading Dennis Smith at 9 for Bam at 14 while at the same time getting a middle of the pack starter at PG.
Chicago needs a center. They also get to reset a little youner around 4, 9 and Buzelis (and to a lesser extent Dillingham and Essengue). New management might or might not value Giddey the same as the prior folks and may not want to go through another negotiation...especially without leverage from Giddey being a RFA.
Giddey definitely has some holes. D isn't great and he doesn't bring much shooting gravity to the table. But, he drops some dimes and will be fantastic with Flagg on the break. 19/10/9 per 36 isn't nothing. I get that we like our shiny new toy at 9 and it will be hard to change course mentally. But are we sure the worst of these guards is going to be as good as Giddey? He certainly won't be 6' 8" and a good fit day one next to Kyrie the same way Giddey will. I found this intriguing.
I think Giddey has something, and would still be into him under the right circumstances. But, if ANY of Acuff, Flemings, Brown or Buries (I know, he's not a PG) fall to 9, and it feels likely one will, I'd prefer them, I think.
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Today, 01:52 AM
(This post was last modified: Today, 01:54 AM by cow.)
(Yesterday, 10:25 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I saw this idea elsewhere...really more of a fan invention than an actual rumor.
Giddey + 15 for Gafford + 9
Dallas gets a taller PG who makes great sense next to Kyrie. He's only 24, so not ancient. Dallas has to add a tiny bit of salary, so A J Johnson? Giddey is more valuable than Gafford. So the spread in value between 9 and 15 is the compensation that makes up for that difference. There will be a very good big on the board at 15 to backfill Gafford. It could turn into something roughly equivalent to trading Dennis Smith at 9 for Bam at 14 while at the same time getting a middle of the pack starter at PG.
Chicago needs a center. They also get to reset a little youner around 4, 9 and Buzelis (and to a lesser extent Dillingham and Essengue). New management might or might not value Giddey the same as the prior folks and may not want to go through another negotiation...especially without leverage from Giddey being a RFA.
Giddey definitely has some holes. D isn't great and he doesn't bring much shooting gravity to the table. But, he drops some dimes and will be fantastic with Flagg on the break. 19/10/9 per 36 isn't nothing. I get that we like our shiny new toy at 9 and it will be hard to change course mentally. But are we sure the worst of these guards is going to be as good as Giddey? He certainly won't be 6' 8" and a good fit day one next to Kyrie the same way Giddey will. I found this intriguing.
I know it isn't your idea and you appreciate the creativity, but I'd feel ill if this is something the Mavs did. No shooting and no D, I'd rather just throw #9 at the dartboard.
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Today, 05:34 AM
(This post was last modified: Today, 05:37 AM by Smitty.)
(Yesterday, 10:25 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I saw this idea elsewhere...really more of a fan invention than an actual rumor.
Giddey + 15 for Gafford + 9
Dallas gets a taller PG who makes great sense next to Kyrie. He's only 24, so not ancient. Dallas has to add a tiny bit of salary, so A J Johnson? Giddey is more valuable than Gafford. So the spread in value between 9 and 15 is the compensation that makes up for that difference. There will be a very good big on the board at 15 to backfill Gafford. It could turn into something roughly equivalent to trading Dennis Smith at 9 for Bam at 14 while at the same time getting a middle of the pack starter at PG.
Chicago needs a center. They also get to reset a little youner around 4, 9 and Buzelis (and to a lesser extent Dillingham and Essengue). New management might or might not value Giddey the same as the prior folks and may not want to go through another negotiation...especially without leverage from Giddey being a RFA.
Giddey definitely has some holes. D isn't great and he doesn't bring much shooting gravity to the table. But, he drops some dimes and will be fantastic with Flagg on the break. 19/10/9 per 36 isn't nothing. I get that we like our shiny new toy at 9 and it will be hard to change course mentally. But are we sure the worst of these guards is going to be as good as Giddey? He certainly won't be 6' 8" and a good fit day one next to Kyrie the same way Giddey will. I found this intriguing.
I don’t hate it. I actually think I should like it more than I do… I guess I just prefer something like Gafford for 18/19/23/25 straight up and using that pick on a younger/better fitting Big with potential.
If you tell me Quaintance is on the board at 18, I think I’m calling the Hornets and making something happen there.
Gafford+30 is even on the table. Walk away with a Guard (9) + Big (18) with a ton of upside.
Is Gafford alone worth #23 to the Hawks, #25 to the Lakers? Is that I. Evans territory? Okorie? Cenac?
Then someone like Zuby/Veesaar/Reed/Moreno/Suigo/Miller with 30 and 48.
I don’t know what I prefer, but I think there will be more than one option for the FO to look into and consider. The OP is one worth considering, if it were ever on the table…
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(Yesterday, 10:25 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I saw this idea elsewhere...really more of a fan invention than an actual rumor.
Giddey + 15 for Gafford + 9
Dallas gets a taller PG who makes great sense next to Kyrie. He's only 24, so not ancient. Dallas has to add a tiny bit of salary, so A J Johnson? Giddey is more valuable than Gafford. So the spread in value between 9 and 15 is the compensation that makes up for that difference. There will be a very good big on the board at 15 to backfill Gafford. It could turn into something roughly equivalent to trading Dennis Smith at 9 for Bam at 14 while at the same time getting a middle of the pack starter at PG.
Chicago needs a center. They also get to reset a little youner around 4, 9 and Buzelis (and to a lesser extent Dillingham and Essengue). New management might or might not value Giddey the same as the prior folks and may not want to go through another negotiation...especially without leverage from Giddey being a RFA.
Giddey definitely has some holes. D isn't great and he doesn't bring much shooting gravity to the table. But, he drops some dimes and will be fantastic with Flagg on the break. 19/10/9 per 36 isn't nothing. I get that we like our shiny new toy at 9 and it will be hard to change course mentally. But are we sure the worst of these guards is going to be as good as Giddey? He certainly won't be 6' 8" and a good fit day one next to Kyrie the same way Giddey will. I found this intriguing.
I’d probably do it. We would be extremely lucky if the PG available at 9 turned into Giddey. At 15 you’d be able to get Morez Johnson, although I personally prefer Cenac for a 5 in this draft.
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Today, 06:25 AM
(This post was last modified: Today, 07:47 AM by Winter.)
I'm not sure how GMs would view that, but the fan base I'm sure prefers to gamble on the home run. A Giddy trade doesn't feel like that. I'd rather roll the dice on a new talent than pay for the guy with a "pretty good" tag on him and not much ceiling left. Instead you hope your new GM - with the scouting pedigree - can hit the lucky number. Trading the #9 pick for the #15 is kind of a sad move - even when you add Giddy. I feel like the FO can do better.
I suspect the new FO probably wants to shine in this lottery. The Giddy thing is a little too underwhelming.
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How sure are we that Cam Carr won’t be a better Robin than Burries?
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11 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 11 hours ago by Winter.)
(Today, 07:55 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: How sure are we that Cam Carr won’t be a better Robin than Burries?
I totally agree. I may be they only one here who see this as a dealer's choice. I'll take Carr or Burries and trust the FO to pick for me.
I think Burries might be the better rookie, but that Carr has the most upside.
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(11 hours ago)Winter Wrote: I totally agree. I may be they only one here who see this as a dealer's choice. I'll take Carr or Burries and trust the FO to pick for me.
Carr’s biggest weakness is passing. So, if we are locked into the player we pick being a distributor, he probably isn’t it. But, if the idea is two-way upside, he probably comes in with 3, D and driving to the hole ability. It isn’t like Burries isn’t athletic enough. Carr was just longer and jumped higher (obviously not the only factors or AJ Johnson would be an important piece going forward)
One thing I’ve read about Schmitz is he values processing speed and decision making. I’m not sure how we as fans can judge that. Passing isn’t a direct correlation, but to the extent being a bad passer means you a slow processor, he may still think Burries the superior player.
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11 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 11 hours ago by Winter.)
I wanted to wait until after the combine to post my picks.
Assuming we picks at appropriate spots. I'd be happy with following:
#9 - Burries, Carr
#30 - Tarris Reed, Alex Karaban
#42? - Any of the following - Billy Richmond III, Baba Miller, Sergio de Larrea, Trevon Brazile
While I wouldn't mind either Flemings or Brown at #9, I would be happier with a SG pick (Burries/Carr).
And frankly, I'd prefer a way to acquire another pick in this draft even if it meant jumbling up these predictions.
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10 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 10 hours ago by hakeemfaan.)
I'd drop Carr out of the 9 conversation because he doesn't have the well rounded game that Burries has. Personally, I'd lean towards Philon over Burries, because Philon is a true lead guard, but others have mentioned that Burries could be that, and just wasn't asked to.
I just hope Masai takes a long and hard look at Mara. If he can stay healthy, which is always a concern for these uber tall guys, this guy has the rare combination of size and feel for the game.
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(11 hours ago)Winter Wrote: And frankly, I'd prefer a way to acquire another pick in this draft even if it meant jumbling up these predictions.
Me, too. There have to be some ways given the situation in Denver, Cleveland or Los Angeles.
I wonder would you guys do Irving for Green + Williams + #14 +#18.
That means three picks in the top 18 plus 70M in cap space next summer.
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(Today, 07:55 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: How sure are we that Cam Carr won’t be a better Robin than Burries?
You probably draft Burries if you buy into his playmaking and potential to play point guard at the next level. Otherwise taking Carr for the athleticism/physical tools makes sense, but in that scenario I'm just hoping Carr develops into an elite 3&D guard. I think expecting him to become a #2 is pretty optimistic.
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(10 hours ago)Mavs2021 Wrote: Me, too. There have to be some ways given the situation in Denver, Cleveland or Los Angeles.
I wonder would you guys do Irving for Green + Williams + #14 +#18.
That means three picks in the top 18 plus 70M in cap space next summer.
If they'll also include the Mavs pick next year. That would free up Dallas to make pick trades in almost any year.
And I like the idea of creating an obscene amount of cap space.
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Mavs-Nets deadline trade in 2023...
Dinwiddie + DFS + 2029 1st + 2027 2nd+ 2029 2nd for Kyrie and Morris
Multiple firsts or a high lottery pick isn't going to happen unless Kyrie somehow increased his value compared to 2023.
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8 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 8 hours ago by mvossman.)
(11 hours ago)Winter Wrote: I totally agree. I may be they only one here who see this as a dealer's choice. I'll take Carr or Burries and trust the FO to pick for me.
I think Burries might be the better rookie, but that Carr has the most upside.
I guess I'm not sure why a college junior has more upside than the freshman? Because of his combine measurements? It's not like Burries numbers were terrible. Burries has a more well rounded offensive game (better playmaker, better handle, better processing) and was a much better defender. As a freshman he was the best player on a final 4 team. Carr was the best player on a team that wildly underperformed.
I get that the new FO has a preference for an athletic profile that Carr fits to a tee. I really hope that does not override talent when making decisions on a top 10 pick. Masai had his biggest successes in the late first round (or later). I hope that's where they go fishing this time around.
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7 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 7 hours ago by Winter.)
(8 hours ago)mvossman Wrote: I guess I'm not sure why a college junior has more upside than the freshman? Because of his combine measurements? It's not like Burries numbers were terrible. Burries has a more well rounded offensive game (better playmaker, better handle, better processing) and was a much better defender. As a freshman he was the best player on a final 4 team. Carr was the best player on a team that wildly underperformed.
I get that the new FO has a preference for an athletic profile that Carr fits to a tee. I really hope that does not override talent when making decisions on a top 10 pick. Masai had his biggest successes in the late first round (or later). I hope that's where they go fishing this time around.
The space between these two players is not that much in my opinion. Carr is only nine months older than Burries and has another college year of experience. So that age gap is meaningless to me.
And what I actually said in my post that is that I'm willing to trust the FO with a decision between the two, not that I preferred Carr.
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7 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 7 hours ago by ThisIStheYear.)
Just saw that Carr finishes at the rim at an 80% clip on decent volume, which is ridiculous. He shoots and defends well. He measured well. Sign me up. I’m convinced he’s the right pick at 9, though I’m starting to doubt he’ll be there.
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(7 hours ago)ThisIStheYear Wrote: Just saw that Carr finishes at the rim at an 80% clip on decent volume, which is ridiculous. He shoots and defends well. He measured well. Sign me up. I’m convinced he’s the right pick at 9, though I’m starting to doubt he’ll be there.
I am not sure where the he defends well stuff is coming from. He has the athletic tools and highlight plays but overall he hasn't been a good defender in college. Biggest strength being help defense around the rim. Biggest weakness pick and roll defense and onball defense against smaller guards.
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