MacMahon: Mavs to explore trade market for Davis, „plotting to pivot to the future“

[KillerLeft]

I really hope people are viewing this recent team hot streak for what it should be:

What It Shouldn't Be: The Mavs wins, even against very good teams, shouldn't fool anyone into thinking this is a true contender, as fun as that might be. That's Fool's Gold. Even if this team does hit it's stride, it's far closer to a lottery team than a squad that's going to beat OKC(psst...no one is). Buying short-term assets against the future would be disastrous. That said, enjoy the wins right now because they're very fun!!!

What It Absolutely Should Be:  This winning streak should absolutely be used as leverage in trade discussions. It's easy for other teams, when your team sucks, to say, "Your players are garbage. Your team is garbage. So just make a trade out of desperation."  Instead, the MBT can say, "Look how well these guys look. We think we're on our way now. But if you want to buy us out of our ticket to the dance, especially before Kyrie comes back, it's gonna cost you."

I think the team's success improves its bargaining position as much as AD and others' play does.

Yeah, an injured AD on a bottom 5, rudderless team is much easier to vulture off of than one that suddenly looks like it's figured things out.

But make no mistake, this team should still be selling, even if as a fan base it would hurr.

I have been thinking about this as long as everyone else. The range of desirable results and stakes are pretty clear. I just can't get past the idea that getting bottom-5 odds might require too much "trying," as in decimating the team too much to make sense, and might not even be possible, end of day. Conversely, earning the "6 seed or above" status that would be necessary to make anyone feel good about going the other direction seems basically impossible as well. 

My conclusion, right or wrong, is that this will all sort itself out, and probably near the end of the season. The NBA has gone to extreme measures to make things like last year's nabbing of Flagg possible, and those types of things seem to be happening more and more often. I don't for one second buy any harebrained conspiracy theories about that - I think it's all chance, and that's exactly what the NBA wanted. Further, they've contrived things SPECIFICALLY to encourage teams in the exact circumstances the Mavs are in now to try and right their season as long as they possibly can. End of the day, I'm not sure it's even worth being as bad as possible anymore. Imagine being Utah last summer, for example, and then imagine that's us around here after selling AD for peanuts in a desperate attempt to lose games. AD, who might be a major part of next season's success, if things break right and a few good decisions are made. 

I do agree with the consensus that the 9-10 seed range should be avoided, if possible, and if it's looking like that's the best the team can do with a couple of weeks left, I suppose I'd try to finish worse, given the specific circumstances of this season. But, I see no real difference between 11-12 and worse, so I don't think extreme measures need to be taken. They've been losing plenty while trying to win, and the best way to encourage rapid growth from Flagg is to for the team to be played the right way. If it works out faster, it works out faster. They just need to let the chips fall where they may (within reason) and nail the pick, wherever the pick lands. 

The one caveat I'd put on all of this, personally, and why I wish they'd just hire Lindsey already and get Finley, Ricardi and especially Cuban out of the driver's seat is this: no matter how this turns out, I don't want any "win now" trades. If they find a trade that makes the team immediately better, fine, but it had better be for a YOUNG player. If they find a (good) trade that adds young assets, clears cap pathways, adds picks (whatever) and makes the team slightly worse in the very near future, that's fine, too, but it has to be a good, productive trade, and not just something done in the name of increasing the odds for this one, upcoming pick. All of that is fair game for me, just no win now 30 year olds, at least not right now. If they just avoid anything like that, I think there's an acceptably wide range of positive outcomes from here.

[Chicagojk]

I have been thinking about this as long as everyone else. The range of desirable results and stakes are pretty clear. I just can't get past the idea that getting bottom-5 odds might require too much "trying," as in decimating the team too much to make sense, and might not even be possible, end of day. Conversely, earning the "6 seed or above" status that would be necessary to make anyone feel good about going the other direction seems basically impossible as well. 

My conclusion, right or wrong, is that this will all sort itself out, and probably near the end of the season. The NBA has gone to extreme measures to make things like last year's nabbing of Flagg possible, and those types of things seem to be happening more and more often. I don't for one second buy any harebrained conspiracy theories about that - I think it's all chance, and that's exactly what the NBA wanted. Further, they've contrived things SPECIFICALLY to encourage teams in the exact circumstances the Mavs are in now to try and right their season as long as they possibly can. End of the day, I'm not sure it's even worth being as bad as possible anymore. Imagine being Utah last summer, for example, and then imagine that's us around here after selling AD for peanuts in a desperate attempt to lose games. AD, who might be a major part of next season's success, if things break right and a few good decisions are made. 

I do agree with the consensus that the 9-10 seed range should be avoided, if possible, and if it's looking like that's the best the team can do with a couple of weeks left, I suppose I'd try to finish worse, given the specific circumstances of this season. But, I see no real difference between 11-12 and worse, so I don't think extreme measures need to be taken. They've been losing plenty while trying to win, and the best way to encourage rapid growth from Flagg is to for the team to be played the right way. If it works out faster, it works out faster. They just need to let the chips fall where they may (within reason) and nail the pick, wherever the pick lands. 

The one caveat I'd put on all of this, personally, and why I wish they'd just hire Lindsey already and get Finley, Ricardi and especially Cuban out of the driver's seat is this: no matter how this turns out, I don't want any "win now" trades. If they find a trade that makes the team immediately better, fine, but it better be for a YOUNG player. If they find a (good) trade that adds young assets, clears cap pathways, adds picks (whatever) and makes the team slightly worse in the very near future, that's fine, too, but it has to be a good, productive trade, and not just something done in the name of increasing the odds for this one, upcoming pick. All of that is fair game for me, just no win now 30 year olds, at least not right now. If they just avoid anything like that, I think there's an acceptably wide range of positive outcomes from here.

I expect in time AD won't be here.  Whether that is the trade deadline, this offseason or a year and a half from now is uncertain.    The rebuild gets substantially easier if the Mavs get a top 3 pick.    There is no doubt about that.   Even a 4-6 pick makes things easier.    I would love to pair Cooper up with a top 3 pick.   If it happened the future is so much brighter.    No doubt.   With that being said the Mavs could continue to suck and still pick 8th.   At the moment I am not going to fret losing from picking 7th to 13-15th.    I think you can still find good players.  Heck OKC and Detroit found their second best players right after each other in this range.   

I entered the season just wanting to enjoy basketball again.  The first 20ish games were brutal and I felt like a higher power was trying to see how bad things could get before I stopped watching.  Don't test me!  The last 6ish games have been really fun.    The Mavs got the hard part done already (we hope), by having one of those guys.   He is no where close to where he will need to get to prove this true, but there is a solid chance of it happening.  Sure, you need another partner to go with him (along with depth).   Not having your draft picks after this year is troubling, but it is not impossible.   Target smart players who know how to play.   Build a deep team.  Maybe you Jalen Brunson someone in the draft/FA and you find that guy that way.   

Sorry...not really to your response above, but just something I have been thinking about.   I also agree to not eat the cheese that this team is more than it is.   Although it would sort of be a waste to throw everything away for a 20-30% chance of landing a top 3 pick.  We saw how that ended for Utah and Washington.  Plus, when you have guys you hope are winners you don't throw away seasons.  IMO that has bad juju.   if you are bad, you are bad.   Otherwise, you try to win games to a certain point in the year.  

Lastly, I am not even ready to have the OKC question yet on how we ever get close to them anytime soon.    That is just depressing.

[Mavs2021]

Sorry...not really to your response above, but just something I have been thinking about.   I also agree to not eat the cheese that this team is more than it is.   Although it would sort of be a waste to throw everything away for a 20-30% chance of landing a top 3 pick.  We saw how that ended for Utah and Washington.

Or we could be like San Antonio and get the #2 after getting the #1 pick and we see how that ended for San Antonio.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Or we could be like San Antonio and get the #2 after getting the #1 pick and we see how that ended for San Antonio.

SA is ahead of schedule. They knocked off OKC to get to the Cup final vs the Knicks.

[Chicagojk]

That was a really fun game.   You have to play so good to beat OKC and SA did.   

I don't know if this has been the case or awhile, but it certainly feels like Wemby is playing with that disdain that Luka had.   It also feels like the Wemby feels the way about Chet that Luka feels about Booker.   That could be a really fun rivalry over the next few years.

[omahen]

That was a really fun game.   You have to play so good to beat OKC and SA did.   

I don't know if this has been the case or awhile, but it certainly feels like Wemby is playing with that disdain that Luka had.   It also feels like the Wemby feels the way about Chet that Luka feels about Booker.   That could be a really fun rivalry over the next few years.

Awesome game last night. It somehow made me feel easier about Lakers, as SA basically did exactly the same thing against best defense in the league as they did to Lakers. The only difference was they were not hitting their open threes (I was very surprised how many open threes OKC defense allowed). SA guards are crazy good at attacking the rim.

[Chicagojk]

Awesome game last night. It somehow made me feel easier about Lakers, as SA basically did exactly the same thing against best defense in the league as they did to Lakers. The only difference was they were not hitting their open threes (I was very surprised how many open threes OKC defense allowed). SA guards are crazy good at attacking the rim.

Spurs are positioned so well.  Really good sign that they were winning games without Wemby.  He may not be a guy who plays 70 plus game often.  We will see though.

I don’t know who you can be so impressed with San Antonio.  Although I liked how OkC handled defeat.  There were a couple of plays that is they went a different way, OKC might have pulled it out.  But they shook the spurs hands and looked in good spirits.  Behind that though you know they will remember this defeat and some of the talk.  SA better get ready for it.

I love Brunson and he is so darn good.  Still though I feel like the Knicks offense is too dependent on him.  I think they have parts to take some load off of him.  He is so efficient though.  I do like that backup point too.  He was real good in college too.  A
Little bigger than Nembhard but they play similar.

[omahen]

Spurs are positioned so well.  Really good sign that they were winning games without Wemby.  He may not be a guy who plays 70 plus game often.  We will see though.

I don’t know who you can be so impressed with San Antonio.  Although I liked how OkC handled defeat.  There were a couple of plays that is they went a different way, OKC might have pulled it out.  But they shook the spurs hands and looked in good spirits.  Behind that though you know they will remember this defeat and some of the talk.  SA better get ready for it.

I love Brunson and he is so darn good.  Still though I feel like the Knicks offense is too dependent on him.  I think they have parts to take some load off of him.  He is so efficient though.  I do like that backup point too.  He was real good in college too.  A
Little bigger than Nembhard but they play similar.

I was not trying to say SA is a title favorite now, OKC is still by far the frontrunner, imho. But SA is legit good. I was also surprised they kept winning without Wemby. While SA had a bad shooting night, OKC was even worse. If they would shoot closer to 40 %, they could have blown SA away by half. SA has many suspect shooters and time will tell if they can be good. Other than Barnes, no other of their players could be considered as a great shooter. But many of their players are currently shooting above their career averages. Fox for example significantly above. 

Brunson is in many regards very similar player to Luka and New York managed to build an ideal team around him with elite two way wings in Anunoby, Bridges and Hart. Their bench is their weakness and in past couple of seasons Thibs was running starters to the ground in regular season. We will see if the new coach can bring them fresher to playoffs. Early results are positive as last year the starters were all playing over 35 mpg. This season Brunson is playing most with 35.1 mpg, rest of key players is between 29 and 35 mpg. It might cost them a couple of losses in the regular season, but should be a factor in playoffs.

[myconsumerclub]

Size is what you need in the new NBA or else condemn yourself to never winning a championship.

SAN is establishing itself as the team to beat OKC is still able to make adjustments but I would have to say its pointless to try and compete without a center that can help you slow down Wemby.

We had better be targeting such players in the draft till we succeed and get one. OKC will probably take the biggest center with real size.

They have picks 11, 18, 26, 38 they can afford to waste 26 on 7'3 Aday Mara and tankathon shows BOS taking him at 31

Other teams with lot of picks include:
ATL 1, 16, 55
WAS 3, 30, 43, 51, 52, 60
SAC 4, 34, 37
MEM 10, 17, 32
BKN 5, 35, 42
CHA 7, 23, 49
SAN 12, 36, 44, 45
BOS 24, 31, 39
NYK 21, 33, 53, 59
TOR 20, 50, 54

Nobody else has more than 2 picks

[mvossman]

Size is what you need in the new NBA or else condemn yourself to never winning a championship.

I'm not sure what this is based on?  OKC just won with their third biggest rotational player being 6' 6" (and one of their bigs weighs less than Naji Marshall).  Boston won it the year before with KP spending most of the playoffs injured leaving them with a 37 year old Horford as their only big.  Neither of those teams played with size.  They played with spacing and elite creation and defense.  I would argue getting a high creating guard is way more important to this team than a center.  They didn't lose the finals because of Lively.

[FireNicoHarrison]

You need no midget on the court. That's true.

But size is not a winning factor, stop to dream about "big lineups is the future".

[myconsumerclub]

Wemby is very big and he is probably going to win a ring and many more. I look at him play and think we better add guys with size or we wont be able to get past them, especially when they get their act together and it looks to me like they almost got it together.

OKC has 2 bigs Chet and Hartenstein.

[mvossman]

Wemby is very big and he is probably going to win a ring and many more. I look at him play and think we better add guys with size or we wont be able to get past them, especially when they get their act together and it looks to me like they almost got it together.

OKC has 2 bigs Chet and Hartenstein.

Wemby will likely never be as good of an offensive player as Jokic, and yet Jokic only has one ring (and he might not get another).  Teams have been bouncing Denver out of the playoffs for years without an elite big who can handle Jokic (nobody can handle Jokic).  There is so much more to it than they have a big guy who is really good.

Chet is a hybrid.  He can play at the 4 and on the perimeter.  That is how the great teams handle two rotational bigs, by having one them able to play away from the basket.

[cow]

Wemby will likely never be as good of an offensive player as Jokic, and yet Jokic only has one ring (and he might not get another).  Teams have been bouncing Denver out of the playoffs for years without an elite big who can handle Jokic (nobody can handle Jokic).  There is so much more to it than they have a big guy who is really good.

Chet is a hybrid.  He can play at the 4 and on the perimeter.  That is how the great teams handle two rotational bigs, by having one them able to play away from the basket.

Interesting that you omit defense when comparing Wemby and Joker's impact.

[mvossman]

Interesting that you omit defense when comparing Wemby and Joker's impact.

Because he seemed to be implying that we needed to get a big that could handle Wemby offense.  The bottom line is you need an elite creator to win a championship.  That can be a big (Jokic, Ginnis) a forward (Tatum, Lebron, Kawhi) or a guard (Shai, Curry).  I don't think you need to construct your roster based on another team's elite player.