Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[FireNicoHarrison]

That's the thing, I think we're only seeing Nico's plan only half played out. I think his grand master plan was to get both AD and KD. Now the merits of trading 5-10 years of Luka for 2-3 years of AD+KD can be debated, but that package is CLOSE to what Luka brought. 

The thing is, Nico failed at getting the KD part. Time will tell if he will actually get the KD part. If he doesn't get the KD part then this grotesque plan got even more hilariously depressing.

Speculations.

If trade for KD was in the Harrison plan then he would have taken more assets from Lakers.

It will be the plan B after this year failure.

But I appreciate that you are trying to find motivation for something that doesn't and can't have.

[DanSchwartzgan]

There is this and the Nico is a terrorist thread. Can we who refuse to move on until Nico is gone ( sorry JubJub and Corby who are tired of us and want us to move on), have these two threads for our group therapy?  There are plenty of other threads on this board that folks who don’t want to delve into negativity can choose from. 

Game thread. Used to be in the pages. Now barely has two in a home game with Giannis. Why are the Nico positive guys not filling that thread?

Why not talk about all our future assets so that we can do a Cleveland like reboot even after they lost Kyrie and lost LeBron twice?  Assets. Oh wait?

Why not talk about the vision of Nico? I am not seeing it given we got a guy who slows down the game more and increases the burden of facilitating and creating his own shot on a 33 year old Kyrie, but maybe I can be persuaded. Who is stopping anyone from starting those threads?


Why not talk about how this GM and ownership is commmitted to spend for good quality players provided they are not lazy and have no bad habits off the court. Players like Brunson and Grimes.  Oh wait again. 

Why not talk about how our GM will make shrewd deals and ensure we don’t get fleeced? 

Who exactly is stopping anyone from these countless threads. I give my word I won’t come and vent on those threads.

Go ahead and start those threads and pump up the sunshine to borrow a term from the past on these boards.

For half a second I thought you were making a serious proposal.  Then it devolved into yet another snarky attack on anyone who dared say something (anything) positive about the Mav's in recent weeks.  The real answer to all of your "why not talk..." questions is easy.  It will be met with posts like this.     

Even if you somehow lived up to your "promise", I have no confidence others will follow suit.  This place is an absolute beating to read.  Somehow the biggest troll (being ignored by many) hasn't been banned yet and one of the biggest contributors to constructive conversation on this board just had a post deleted?  That's incredibly short sighted.  BTW, if we aren't going to ban this guy, could we at least stop quoting him.  Ignore works on posts, but if you guys keep quoting him then he's impossible to ignore.  Stop feeding the obvious troll.

At some point, some of you have to decide what you really want.  This used to be a place known for intelligent basketball conversation.  It has become an echo chamber.  The problem with echo chambers is the people who want to think through issues with more depth (or talk about something other than Luka) will just leave (or be run off).  It's death by a thousand cuts.  Trying to contain this "therapy" to a thread or two would actually be a helpful start.  

You aren't really arguing with anyone.  Show me the post where someone said "way to go Nico, that was awesome".  All you are doing is making this a miserable place to be.  Its maddening and it crowds out reasonable conversation.  Are you more concerned about venting and proving to the world how right you are or are you more concerned about having a decent place for good basketball conversations going forward.  If we insist on the former, we will eventually lose the later.  

If a tree falls in just two threads, but no one is around to read it, does it really matter?

[hakeemfaan]

For half a second I thought you were making a serious proposal.  Then it devolved into yet another snarky attack on anyone who dared say something (anything) positive about the Mav's in recent weeks.  The real answer to all of your "why not talk..." questions is easy.  It will be met with posts like this.     

Even if you somehow lived up to your "promise", I have no confidence others will follow suit.  This place is an absolute beating to read.  Somehow the biggest troll (being ignored by many) hasn't been banned yet and one of the biggest contributors to constructive conversation on this board just had a post deleted?  That's incredibly short sighted.  BTW, if we aren't going to ban this guy, could we at least stop quoting him.  Ignore works on posts, but if you guys keep quoting him then he's impossible to ignore.  Stop feeding the obvious troll.

At some point, some of you have to decide what you really want.  This used to be a place known for intelligent basketball conversation.  It has become an echo chamber.  The problem with echo chambers is the people who want to think through issues with more depth (or talk about something other than Luka) will just leave (or be run off).  It's death by a thousand cuts.  Trying to contain this "therapy" to a thread or two would actually be a helpful start.  

You aren't really arguing with anyone.  Show me the post where someone said "way to go Nico, that was awesome".  All you are doing is making this a miserable place to be.  Its maddening and it crowds out reasonable conversation.  Are you more concerned about venting and proving to the world how right you are or are you more concerned about having a decent place for good basketball conversations going forward.  If we insist on the former, we will eventually lose the later.  

If a tree falls in just two threads, but no one is around to read it, does it really matter?

Why is it snarly? I have seen people accusing folks who want to see Nico gone as “bitching” on this thread. I see other attacks over and over saying folks  who are against this trade as not realizing Luka’s faults despite that being a flat out lie.

I am making a straight forward proposal. Why not let the folks who want to vent do so on this thread. I can’t speak for others I am saying I won’t vent or litter those threads ( depending upon one’s perspective) with anti Nico stuff. 

You in your response prove my point. There are plenty of threads you can choose to expand your knowledge in and yet you come back here with “you people have to decide what you want to do”?  Who are you people? I have contributed with my money to the Mavs franchise over the years.  I have contributed monetarily to this board when the drive for funding came up in many times over different iterations of this board. 
 
So please don’t patronize me or tell me how I should or should not be critical of this management and ownership as it currently stands.

[FireNicoHarrison]

The users who force the "let's move on" movement are mostly Doncic haters who don't want to admit it publicly... But i can understand them.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

The users who force the "let's move on" movement are mostly Doncic haters who don't want to admit it publicly... But i can understand them.

I didn't mean to like this lol but I was also a Doncic hater.

[hakeemfaan]

The users who force the "let's move on" movement are mostly Doncic haters who don't want to admit it publicly... But i can understand them.

I dont want to go there. There are people who have the ability to move on quicker than others. It doesn’t mean they are Doncic haters or the ones hating this deal are more Luka fans than Mavs fans. Both of those characterizations are extreme and wrong.  If some of us are really down on this franchise right now it doesn’t make our arguments unintelligent either.  I have not come here and blasted AD and Christie as trash.  I just don’t see this trade as a short term or a long term win. If someone wants to state their counters to that they are free to do so than just attack the point.

For me  personally, “moving on” starts with Nico gone. I just can’t drum up any fake enthusiasm right now with him still in charge. How does one talk about the path forward when IMO an incompetent negotiator of a GM is still at the helm.  Folks who want to overlook that and talk about the next steps are free to do so. I am not going on those threads and calling those folks out for wasting their time.

[Scott41theMavs]

For half a second I thought you were making a serious proposal.  Then it devolved into yet another snarky attack on anyone who dared say something (anything) positive about the Mav's in recent weeks.  The real answer to all of your "why not talk..." questions is easy.  It will be met with posts like this.     

Even if you somehow lived up to your "promise", I have no confidence others will follow suit.  This place is an absolute beating to read.  Somehow the biggest troll (being ignored by many) hasn't been banned yet and one of the biggest contributors to constructive conversation on this board just had a post deleted?  That's incredibly short sighted.  BTW, if we aren't going to ban this guy, could we at least stop quoting him.  Ignore works on posts, but if you guys keep quoting him then he's impossible to ignore.  Stop feeding the obvious troll.

At some point, some of you have to decide what you really want.  This used to be a place known for intelligent basketball conversation.  It has become an echo chamber.  The problem with echo chambers is the people who want to think through issues with more depth (or talk about something other than Luka) will just leave (or be run off).  It's death by a thousand cuts.  Trying to contain this "therapy" to a thread or two would actually be a helpful start.  

You aren't really arguing with anyone.  Show me the post where someone said "way to go Nico, that was awesome".  All you are doing is making this a miserable place to be.  Its maddening and it crowds out reasonable conversation.  Are you more concerned about venting and proving to the world how right you are or are you more concerned about having a decent place for good basketball conversations going forward.  If we insist on the former, we will eventually lose the later.  

If a tree falls in just two threads, but no one is around to read it, does it really matter?

Well said. 

I only know of one poster here who might be "in favor of the trade" - someone whose opinions and posting character I have held in very high regard in the past, although I'm a little worried about him with that take... I've noted some others who had issues with Luka who are thus less angry with the trade than most (e.g. RT), but most of them recognize that the trade was a disaster.

In the end, though, it's really the contrast between the venting that some continue to need (including trolls who hammer it... and hammer it... and hammer it... as if the rest of us didn't know it was a bad trade - by the way, the specific troll you're talking about liked your post, which I think is pretty funny), and those of us who are a little more stoic - "Let's just discuss the team as it is now and moving forward, recognizing that things are pretty bleak, but without constantly referencing the atrocity that took place last month." I'm in the latter camp, of course. 

I'm not necessarily in favor of segregating. My version of what you're saying is that, as a member of the latter group, I'm willing to tolerate in other parts of the board the posts of the folks in the former group, whose pain is extremely understandable, as long as they also tolerate those of us who, in their view, have moved on "prematurely." All of us are entitled to our opinions and our approaches to fandom. Except the one troll. It would be great if the mods got rid of him, or at least if, as you say, folks would stop feeding him.

[hakeemfaan]

Well said. 

I only know of one poster here who might be "in favor of the trade" - someone whose opinions and posting character I have held in very high regard in the past, although I'm a little worried about him with that take... I've noted some others who had issues with Luka who are thus less angry with the trade than most (e.g. RT), but most of them recognize that the trade was a disaster.

In the end, though, it's really the contrast between the venting that some continue to need (including trolls who hammer it... and hammer it... and hammer it... as if the rest of us didn't know it was a bad trade - by the way, the specific troll you're talking about liked your post, which I think is pretty funny), and those of us who are a little more stoic - "Let's just discuss the team as it is now and moving forward, recognizing that things are pretty bleak, but without constantly referencing the atrocity that took place last month." I'm in the latter camp, of course. 

I'm not necessarily in favor of segregating. My version of what you're saying is that, as a member of the latter group, I'm willing to tolerate in other parts of the board the posts of the folks in the former group, whose pain is extremely understandable, as long as they also tolerate those of us who, in their view, have moved on "prematurely." All of us are entitled to our opinions and our approaches to fandom. Except the one troll. It would be great if the mods got rid of him, or at least if, as you say, folks would stop feeding him.

I don’t agree with this at all. 

I checked the front page and 99% of the threads on this board have very little activity. Why are you or Dan not filling it up with more “intelligent” talk on the path forward with Nico still at the helm. Who is “hammering “ negativity over and over on any of those threads?  

I feel it mighty strange that folks who want to move on are not contributing to other threads but sone how gravitate back to this thread.  At some point the mods will kill this thread as well. 

Dan is correct. This place is becoming an echo chamber. However it is not in the way he wants to characterize.

[FireNicoHarrison]

It's easy to blame the troll when it's clear that almost no one wants to talk about basketball anymore right now because this trade has killed any hope or interest...

I liked your posts because i'm a good guy, even though you are isolating me. It's called racism. But i don't care.

[hakeemfaan]

It's easy to blame the troll when it's clear that almost no one wants to talk about basketball anymore right now because this trade has killed any hope or interest...

I liked your posts because i'm a good guy, even though you are isolating me. It's called racism. But i don't care.

Racism is not the correct word but I get your point. 

Instead of blaming folks like you and me, the Mavs will be smart to recognize we are the fans who have still not abandoned this franchise unlike many others over the last month. Two young adults in my very household fall into the latter category .  If I or you didn’t care about the Mavs, we are not here on a Sunday asking for Nico to be gone before many of us can begin to talk about a way forward. 

We are not the enemy.

[SkenfromLMF]

For a little perspective...
When Nellie blew up the Mavs post Zachanelli there was much lamenting losing the futures of Jackson and Mashburn and how bad those trades ended up as far as assets returned etc.
However, many people (myself included) were happy to see anything other than Zach the Hack in the GM control chair. BTW the guy who sabotaged this franchise more than any other person from the outside was Rick Pitino who counseled Jamal Mashburn to basically quit on the team until he got himself traded, as well as telling Nellie that he believe Samaki Walker had as much potential as Antoine, thus the foundation for what IMO served as the worst trade of the first 30 years of the franchise: Eric Montross.

Anyway the point is that one of the most intelligent posters of the '90s, Ron Haneberg, never gave Nellie any credit, other than setting the franchise back to the day Roy Tarpley was banned. (He was right that Nellie would name himself coach) I personally thought Zach made the far worse trade in giving up Kidd and killing the cap for years by taking back AC (solid gold) Green's contract... There was a pretty even divide between the two camps and it made for some fairly heavy reading on the old DMN boards and later at other sites.

You want intelligent conversation - we need a poll:
Who would you want as GM of the Mavericks tomorrow?
A) Nico
B) Donnie
C) Cubes
D) A member of the Jones family
E) Other

[Jym]

I dont want to go there. There are people who have the ability to move on quicker than others. It doesn’t mean they are Doncic haters or the ones hating this deal are more Luka fans than Mavs fans. Both of those characterizations are extreme and wrong.  If some of us are really down on this franchise right now it doesn’t make our arguments unintelligent either.  I have not come here and blasted AD and Christie as trash.  I just don’t see this trade as a short term or a long term win. If someone wants to state their counters to that they are free to do so than just attack the point.

For me  personally, “moving on” starts with Nico gone. I just can’t drum up any fake enthusiasm right now with him still in charge. How does one talk about the path forward when IMO an incompetent negotiator of a GM is still at the helm.  Folks who want to overlook that and talk about the next steps are free to do so. I am not going on those threads and calling those folks out for wasting their time.

I still say the lack of a follow up trade hurt my soul even worse than moving Luka
We have a 2 or 3 year window, and they threw away the first year. WHY!?!!? 
Even if fully healthy with all our bigs, I wouldn't feel confident in a playoffs series without more perimeter creation

[Scott41theMavs]

For a little perspective...
When Nellie blew up the Mavs post Zachanelli there was much lamenting losing the futures of Jackson and Mashburn and how bad those trades ended up as far as assets returned etc.
However, many people (myself included) were happy to see anything other than Zach the Hack in the GM control chair. BTW the guy who sabotaged this franchise more than any other person from the outside was Rick Pitino who counseled Jamal Mashburn to basically quit on the team until he got himself traded, as well as telling Nellie that he believe Samaki Walker had as much potential as Antoine, thus the foundation for what IMO served as the worst trade of the first 30 years of the franchise: Eric Montross.

Anyway the point is that one of the most intelligent posters of the '90s, Ron Haneberg, never gave Nellie any credit, other than setting the franchise back to the day Roy Tarpley was banned. (He was right that Nellie would name himself coach) I personally thought Zach made the far worse trade in giving up Kidd and killing the cap for years by taking back AC (solid gold) Green's contract... There was a pretty even divide between the two camps and it made for some fairly heavy reading on the old DMN boards and later at other sites.

You want intelligent conversation - we need a poll:
Who would you want as GM of the Mavericks tomorrow?
A) Nico
B) Donnie
C) Cubes
D) A member of the Jones family
E) Other

Nellie was not the GM when the Montross trade happened. In fact, one of the first things he did in interviews when he got here was to lament being a bad team without a first round pick. Like, you know, the Mavs are going to be in several of the next few years.

E wins it for me. Dennis Lindsay would be good, given the small window of GMing excellence we had when he was here.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Probably i will give a free try to Lindsey... At least he is already in the organization.

[Scott41theMavs]

I still say the lack of a follow up trade hurt my soul even worse than moving Luka
We have a 2 or 3 year window, and they threw away the first year. WHY!?!!? 
Even if fully healthy with all our bigs, I wouldn't feel confident in a playoffs series without more perimeter creation

Oh, I don't know... I'd say the colossal poor talent evaluation of Grimes, and trading him away, is going to bite us worse. If Nico had known Grimes's talent level from his own hind end or a hole in the ground, he would have kept him and he'd be starting.

Re: sken: in retrospect, I'll bet we'll see the Martin-Grimes/high-valued second trade as being almost as bad as the Montross trade. Give up all of the assets and end up with hardly anything back.

[SleepingHero]

For half a second I thought you were making a serious proposal.  Then it devolved into yet another snarky attack on anyone who dared say something (anything) positive about the Mav's in recent weeks.  The real answer to all of your "why not talk..." questions is easy.  It will be met with posts like this.     

Even if you somehow lived up to your "promise", I have no confidence others will follow suit.  This place is an absolute beating to read.  Somehow the biggest troll (being ignored by many) hasn't been banned yet and one of the biggest contributors to constructive conversation on this board just had a post deleted?  That's incredibly short sighted.  BTW, if we aren't going to ban this guy, could we at least stop quoting him.  Ignore works on posts, but if you guys keep quoting him then he's impossible to ignore.  Stop feeding the obvious troll.

At some point, some of you have to decide what you really want.  This used to be a place known for intelligent basketball conversation.  It has become an echo chamber.  The problem with echo chambers is the people who want to think through issues with more depth (or talk about something other than Luka) will just leave (or be run off).  It's death by a thousand cuts.  Trying to contain this "therapy" to a thread or two would actually be a helpful start.  

You aren't really arguing with anyone.  Show me the post where someone said "way to go Nico, that was awesome".  All you are doing is making this a miserable place to be.  Its maddening and it crowds out reasonable conversation.  Are you more concerned about venting and proving to the world how right you are or are you more concerned about having a decent place for good basketball conversations going forward.  If we insist on the former, we will eventually lose the later.  

If a tree falls in just two threads, but no one is around to read it, does it really matter?

I appreciate this constructive critique. I will make a forum announcement later to say ALL Luka posts be contained in this Luka thread. Further I will unstick this Luka thread from the main page. 


I don’t want this place to delve into an echo chamber. I think we are all dealing with an unprecedented moment that has quite literally never happened in the history of the NBA. I don’t think it’s unreasonable some people are still wildly negative about this franchise nearly a month later.


But I’ve read your words, I agree with them. I want this place to have a better conversation. On the whole though, those with rational, more reasonable things post less and less frequently, and we are left with emotional reactions. 


And if I am asked by the more reasonable crew to delete these emotional reactionary posts, well what are we left with? I suppose I am asking everyone to be the change we want to see, rather than constantly complain about it.

Also as someone with he ability to modify and delete posts, I don’t know what you are referring to when you said one of the biggest contributors got their post deleted. I didn’t do any thing like that. Please let me know what happened so that I can look into that.


Finally, I do this moderating thing for fun. The Mavs are fun for me. I don’t get a dime doing any of this. I am trying to cultivate a place where we can have reasonable discussion. But I am no expert. I apologize you feel like this place is trending in the opposite direction of where you want it to be. Bear with me and KL. We’re trying. 

Until then, let’s try and be that change. Thank you for making a nice constructive post.

[hakeemfaan]

I appreciate this constructive critique. I will make a forum announcement later to say ALL Luka posts be contained in this Luka thread. Further I will unstick this Luka thread from the main page. 


I don’t want this place to delve into an echo chamber. I think we are all dealing with an unprecedented moment that has quite literally never happened in the history of the NBA. I don’t think it’s unreasonable some people are still wildly negative about this franchise nearly a month later.


But I’ve read your words, I agree with them. I want this place to have a better conversation. On the whole though, those with rational, more reasonable things post less and less frequently, and we are left with emotional reactions. 


And if I am asked by the more reasonable crew to delete these emotional reactionary posts, well what are we left with? I suppose I am asking everyone to be the change we want to see, rather than constantly complain about it.

Also as someone with he ability to modify and delete posts, I don’t know what you are referring to when you said one of the biggest contributors got their post deleted. I didn’t do any thing like that. Please let me know what happened so that I can look into that.


Finally, I do this moderating thing for fun. The Mavs are fun for me. I don’t get a dime doing any of this. I am trying to cultivate a place where we can have reasonable discussion. But I am no expert. I apologize you feel like this place is trending in the opposite direction of where you want it to be. Bear with me and KL. We’re trying. 

Until then, let’s try and be that change. Thank you for making a nice constructive post.

I have been a long time contributor over many iterations of this board and this post to me tells me that criticism of the Mavs organization will be censored even though there were many other threads that Dan or anyone else could have posted on. The reason that none of those other threads are gaining traction has nothing to do with this thread, but it is easy and convenient to do so 

Using word like emotional vs rational to somehow gaslight folks who are critical of Nico and want to see him gone add further fuel to the fire. 

As I wrote this place is indeed becoming an echo chamber.

[Scott41theMavs]

I have been a long time contributor over many iterations of this board and this post to me tells me that criticism of the Mavs organization will be censored even though there were many other threads that Dan or anyone else could have posted on. The reason that none of those other threads are gaining traction has nothing to do with this thread, but it is easy and convenient to do so 

Using word like emotional vs rational to somehow gaslight folks who are critical of Nico and want to see him gone add further fuel to the fire. 

As I wrote this place is indeed becoming an echo chamber.

Do you see what SH's underbanner is?

[hakeemfaan]

Do you see what SH's underbanner is?

It is meaningless to me when he and you appears lockstep with what I perceive as a personal and baseless attack on me and anyone who criticizes this trade.  Plus I didnt see anything constructive in Dan’s post.  As mentioned there were plenty of avenues for him to post something constructive.  You also somehow stating how you were one of the good ones who disagreed with the trade but were somehow hamstrung by this one thread fell into the same boat for me. 

No one, not you, not sh, not Dan has answered why none of the other threads are filling up on this board and who exactly is stopping all the so called intelligent posts on this board. 

As mentioned the fans who don’t care about the Mavs have already left or don’t care. The ones who are still venting about Nico are the ones staying loyal to this franchise despite feeling betrayed. I don’t think DS understands that nuance.

[KillerLeft]

Somehow the biggest troll (being ignored by many) hasn't been banned yet and one of the biggest contributors to constructive conversation on this board just had a post deleted?  

Fully support the post, thanks for chiming in. 

On the quoted portion, I'm trying to catch up. Who got a post deleted?