Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[mvossman]

I don't disagree. Those are valid points.

I will, however point out that last season's team had it's core also changed at the trade deadline and it went on to play in the finals. 

I agree with your PnR comment, although I will point out that Gafford was feasting quite regularly after DLive got injured and before his own freak accident.

I do think creation is an issue, however this team has been successful over the last month playing without either bigs or dedicated shot creation. Improved ball movement and whole team involvement has worked in place of standing around waiting to see what Luka's gonna do this time.

I agree it's hard to understand without seeing the healthy team together, but there are glimpses that could be exciting.

I would argue the Luka/AD swap is a much more drastic core change than PJ/Gafford.  PJ and Gafford fit into the current system like a glove.  the Luka trade requires an entirely new system.

I will say that I did not have the Mavs as contenders last season and they made it to the finals, so you never know.  With the prevalence of 3 point shooting there is a lot more variance of outcomes now than there used to be.

[audiosway]

I don't consider myself a Mavs hater, but here are the reasons I don't think they are currently a contender:

Continuity.  Your core needs time to play together and our core will have virtually none of that due to the trade and injuries.

Fit.  This team was built to be P&R centered around Luka.  Now we have no true P&R PG with P&R centers.  Lots of questions.

Creation.  Most NBA champions have an elite (top 5) creator.  Kyrie is better off ball and AD does not create a lot for others.

To be fair, I only really consider OKC, Cleveland and Boston to be true contenders.  There is a big drop off after those three teams.  Dallas is probably in that second tier, but its hard to know even that without seeing the team healthy.

I agree that continuity can really help. However, with vets it's really mitigated. You also have to think that Kyrie and AD have played together on team USA. Look at the pass from AD to Gaff at the start of that game we saw with AD.

The main aspect of how this team was built it focused on Defense first. Every player out there besides Luka and Kyrie are D first. Now you see Kyrie sticking his nose in there as the leader and playing hard defense. You are talking from an offensive perspective. Gaff and Lively both have a decent post game. AD has an incredible post and mid game. Kyrie just makes buckets. PJ has a good post game as well as an outside shot now. P&R is just an aspect of offense. There are so many other ways to create offense that this team can do. And P&R will be one of them.

Dallas has 2 elite creators in that Kyrie and AD are both elite shot creators. Most NBA champions do NOT have elite PGs. Jasons Kidd won a title when he became a 3&D PG. CP3 has never won a title. John Stockton never won a title. Tony Parker was a scorer, Jrue Holiday is 3&D.

Elite shot creation means they can get their own shot at an elite level. Most creators are NOT distributors also. LeBron and Luka are. But, I would argue that LeBron has cost himself titles by passing the ball and not being the one to own it and take the shot. I've said in the past that if the game is on the line I would rather see Kyrie take the shot than Luka.

Ball movement is the key. You can't double ball movement like you can a single player. Most NBA champions have very good ball movement with an elite shot creator or two. And they play defense first. Look no further than the Warriors and Spurs Dynasty's.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Street clothes is bad from mid range, his shooting % is about 34-35. From 3 is even worse.
He wants to play PF because he is soft and very injury prone but he is basically a C.

Irving is clutch but Doncic is easily a top3 clutch player in the league.

[audiosway]

Street clothes is bad from mid range, his shooting % is about 34-35. From 3 is even worse.
He wants to play PF because he is soft and very injury prone but he is basically a C.

Irving is clutch but Doncic is easily a top3 clutch player in the league.

I have you on block but couldn't resist responding to this one. Nice try. Next time look at shooting percentage from 3-10 NOT percentage of shots from 3-10. lol.

For his career AD is 46% from 3-10 feet away, 42% from 11-16 feet and 38% from 17-3 pointer.

[FireNicoHarrison]

I have you on block but couldn't resist responding to this one. Nice try. Next time look at shooting percentage from 3-10 NOT percentage of shots from 3-10. lol.

For his career AD is 46% from 3-10 feet away, 42% from 11-16 feet and 38% from 17-3 pointer.

From NBA.com. 
Mid range % by year

24/25.  42%
23/24.  39%
22/23.  40%
21/22.  37%
20/21.  35%
19/20.  35%
18/19.  35%
17/18.  36%

Ecc ecc

Definitely NOT a incredible mid range shooting %.
I'm sorry. Nice try. Lol.

[mvossman]

I agree that continuity can really help. However, with vets it's really mitigated. You also have to think that Kyrie and AD have played together on team USA. Look at the pass from AD to Gaff at the start of that game we saw with AD.

The main aspect of how this team was built it focused on Defense first. Every player out there besides Luka and Kyrie are D first. Now you see Kyrie sticking his nose in there as the leader and playing hard defense. You are talking from an offensive perspective. Gaff and Lively both have a decent post game. AD has an incredible post and mid game. Kyrie just makes buckets. PJ has a good post game as well as an outside shot now. P&R is just an aspect of offense. There are so many other ways to create offense that this team can do. And P&R will be one of them.

Dallas has 2 elite creators in that Kyrie and AD are both elite shot creators. Most NBA champions do NOT have elite PGs. Jasons Kidd won a title when he became a 3&D PG. CP3 has never won a title. John Stockton never won a title. Tony Parker was a scorer, Jrue Holiday is 3&D.

Elite shot creation means they can get their own shot at an elite level. Most creators are NOT distributors also. LeBron and Luka are. But, I would argue that LeBron has cost himself titles by passing the ball and not being the one to own it and take the shot. I've said in the past that if the game is on the line I would rather see Kyrie take the shot than Luka.

Ball movement is the key. You can't double ball movement like you can a single player. Most NBA champions have very good ball movement with an elite shot creator or two. And they play defense first. Look no further than the Warriors and Spurs Dynasty's.

To be clear, when I say elite creation, that means shot creation and creating for others.  I'm not talking about a pure point guard.  Guys like Jokic, Curry, Giannis, Lebron and Kawhi.  Tatum isn't quite at the level of those guys, but he had a crazy amount of help.  Kyrie is probably in the Tatum tier, but he doesn't have the help Tatum did.  AD is a very good offensive player, but he is not an elite shot creator and he doesn't make up for it with playmaking (what makes him so good is he combines good offense with elite defense).

If ball movement is key, then you are going to need a high level of playmaking to make it work, otherwise ball movement is going to equate to high turnover rate.  The guys mentioned above were all elite playmakers and they had help (Jokic has Murray, Curry has Draymond, Giannis had Jrue and Middleton and Lebron had Wade then Kyrie).  Lebron had the least amount of help with AD in the covid championship, but he was playing true point guard that season (he led the league in assists per game) something Kyrie struggles with (if we had traded Kyrie for AD I would feel a lot better about our chances).

The bottom line is Kyrie and AD have established themselves as contending level number 2s.  Its hard to win a championship with that model.  The team looks light on shot creation, playmaking and perimeter defense.  Eventually they are going to need to replace Klay in the starting lineup with a player that fills those holes.  I don't think that player is on the roster right now.  I'm not sure Exum is good enough and he has too many health concerns.  Max feels more like an elite role player.  He would have been perfect as 5th starter with Luka, but I think they need more creation now.

[mvossman]

From NBA.com. 
Mid range % by year

24/25.  42%
23/24.  39%
22/23.  40%
21/22.  37%
20/21.  35%
19/20.  35%
18/19.  35%
17/18.  36%

Ecc ecc

Definitely NOT a incredible mid range shooting %.
I'm sorry. Nice try. Lol.

My numbers are a lot higher than yours, and I realized its because what I am looking at includes the playoffs.  Historically he has been in the low 40s, which is roughly average, and I don't consider it a bad thing that they get better in the playoffs.

[BoulderMFFL]

As Nico and Dumont did Luka dirty, I hope he sets the scoring record against the Mavs tonite.

Does anyone know who scored the most points against the Mavs?

[FireNicoHarrison]

My numbers are a lot higher than yours, and I realized its because what I am looking at includes the playoffs.  Historically he has been in the low 40s, which is roughly average, and I don't consider it a bad thing that they get better in the playoffs.

Yes, i agree with you.

I just objected incredible mid range. That's clearly not true.

And someone also wanted to be ironic.

[mvossman]

Yes, i agree with you.

I just objected incredible mid range. That's clearly not true.

And someone also wanted to be ironic.

To fair, it started with you stating he was bad from midrange.

[FireNicoHarrison]

To fair, it started with you stating he was bad from midrange.

Watch above my post...

[Berknip]

As Nico and Dumont did Luka dirty, I hope he sets the scoring record against the Mavs tonite.

Does anyone know who scored the most points against the Mavs?

Kobe Bryant - 62 - 12/20/2005

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-po...-mavericks

[Scott41theMavs]

Kobe Bryant - 62 - 12/20/2005

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-po...-mavericks

That's all?

I will consider it a testament to our defenders if they keep Luka from breaking that tonight.

[audiosway]

To be clear, when I say elite creation, that means shot creation and creating for others.  I'm not talking about a pure point guard.  Guys like Jokic, Curry, Giannis, Lebron and Kawhi.  Tatum isn't quite at the level of those guys, but he had a crazy amount of help.  Kyrie is probably in the Tatum tier, but he doesn't have the help Tatum did.  AD is a very good offensive player, but he is not an elite shot creator and he doesn't make up for it with playmaking (what makes him so good is he combines good offense with elite defense).

If ball movement is key, then you are going to need a high level of playmaking to make it work, otherwise ball movement is going to equate to high turnover rate.  The guys mentioned above were all elite playmakers and they had help (Jokic has Murray, Curry has Draymond, Giannis had Jrue and Middleton and Lebron had Wade then Kyrie).  Lebron had the least amount of help with AD in the covid championship, but he was playing true point guard that season (he led the league in assists per game) something Kyrie struggles with (if we had traded Kyrie for AD I would feel a lot better about our chances).

The bottom line is Kyrie and AD have established themselves as contending level number 2s.  Its hard to win a championship with that model.  The team looks light on shot creation, playmaking and perimeter defense.  Eventually they are going to need to replace Klay in the starting lineup with a player that fills those holes.  I don't think that player is on the roster right now.  I'm not sure Exum is good enough and he has too many health concerns.  Max feels more like an elite role player.  He would have been perfect as 5th starter with Luka, but I think they need more creation now.

I knew what you meant by it. I do agree with you that Kyrie and AD have always been #2 players winning titles. That does concern me a little. Klay is a very good facilitator. Especially now that the ball will be moving more. Lively has shown to be a good passer as well. I think too much is being put on having that one facilitator on the roster. Kobe was never a big facilitator. I don't really consider Giannis one either.

Jokic I agree is a very good passer but he leaves a hole on D. Curry is a shoot first PG. Most of the time Curry is cutting and moving to get open. 

I think we'll see Kyrie take that next step as a closer to lead the team. My main point to all of this is that only 1 team has ever won a title with a player having a usage above 35%. That was the MJ Bulls. If you are putting your entire team on the back of one player he has to be dedicated on and off the floor to a crazy degree.

There have been plenty of teams win titles without a "facilitator". I'll take my chances with that.

I think as the season goes on we'll see how good of a playmaker Naji is. SD can facilitate, Klay can as well, Kyrie is better at it then you realize. I think AD will be a good one also. Then there is Lively once he is back. Max is a good passer.

Basketball is a team sport and always has been. Stern tried to make it not that way with MJ during the 90s. Teams soon figured out that no one would ever duplicate what they did with that Bulls team. LeBron has never even had usage as high as Jordan in his busiest season. For that matter, LeBron has never had usage as high as Luka.

[audiosway]

That's all?

I will consider it a testament to our defenders if they keep Luka from breaking that tonight.

Tonight will be interesting to see how they play it. I'm not sure if we'll see Luka go off or if someone like PJ will take it as a challenge to lock him down.

No one knows Luka like Dallas does. If there are tells and ways to slow him down they will flash it.

[audiosway]

My numbers are a lot higher than yours, and I realized its because what I am looking at includes the playoffs.  Historically he has been in the low 40s, which is roughly average, and I don't consider it a bad thing that they get better in the playoffs.

It doesn't matter. He's looking at the wrong stats all together. Here are AD's actual numbers for the last few years. And I'm ONLY using regular season numbers. NOT playoffs.

0-3 feet (This is considered at the basket) He is one of the best ever at this range.
24/25 - 76.3%
23/24 - 76%
22/23 - 77.4%
21/22 - 78.8%

3-10 feet (This is mid-high post) He is considered elite tier all time here.
24/25 - 49.6%
23/24 - 49.4%
22/23 - 48.7%
21/22 - 51.4%

10-16 feet (This is midrange) He is also considered very good in this range.
24/25 - 36.1%
23/24 - 36.7%
22/23 - 43.2%
21/22 - 44.2%

He is a career 42.2% mid range shooter.
By comparison:
LeBron is a career 37% midrange shooter.
Kobe was a career 43% midrange shooter.
Luka is a career 45.9% midrange shooter.

[The Jom]

Tonight will be interesting to see how they play it. I'm not sure if we'll see Luka go off or if someone like PJ will take it as a challenge to lock him down.

No one knows Luka like Dallas does. If there are tells and ways to slow him down they will flash it.

Dude, no. Luka doesn’t get shut down. If you have multiple strong, long defenders quick enough to hang PLUS interior rim defenders to help out, then you’ve got a chance providing the whistles are friendly. We have PJ alone. And nothing at the rim. And the whistles won’t be friendly at all.

[FireNicoHarrison]

It doesn't matter. He's looking at the wrong stats all together. 

Nope.

I took the stats from NBA.com section "midrange".

His midrange % is not incredible. That's the point.

[SleepingHero]

@GrantAfseth
Luka Dončić on seeing his old Dallas Mavericks teammates for the first time since being traded to the Los Angeles Lakers.

"Kyrie is my Hermano. We got beyond basketball. It was good to see those guys. We went to wars together, and it was really fun to see them all."

[SleepingHero]

@GrantAfseth
Luka Dončić was asked if facing the Dallas Mavericks gave him closure about the trade.

"The closure is going to take a while, I think... It's not ideal, but like I said, I'm glad this game is over. There's a lot of emotions, but we go little by little, and every day is better."