Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[Jym]

I'm still at such a loss that we didn't do a follow up trade for a creator of any sort.
That bothered me EVEN MORE than the Luka trade.
Incompetence to levels that I didn't even know was possible

We desperately needed someone that can shift Kyrie to SG for extended minutes

[audiosway]

There is no comparison at all between Bird and Luka. About the opposites, really. Bird's off-court work ethic on his conditioning and on his skills was legendary.

The "cake" stuff was not his habit at all -- it was what happened during his year off for back surgery due to injury, and was noteworthy because he abandoned the good eating and conditioning habits he had due to being "bored" as he tried to heal at home and had nothing to do. 

Also, the injury itself was not a result of lack of conditioning, but rather resulted from him shoveling gravel in the 1985 off-season and hurting his back in doing so. Despite the injury, he worked and conditioned his way through the injury, winning the MVP in that ensuing season while playing all 82 games at 38 mpg, and he finished 3rd and 2nd the following 2 seasons while playing no less than 74 games each season. The season after that, at age 32, was when he was finally forced to have back surgery because it was so bad, missing that season.

After the year off, he worked back into top shape to try to win another title. He gritted it out for 3 more seasons with more and more games being missed because his back was hurting too bad, until he gave up. Even at the end, he was a great player when he could take the court.

Yeah I know. He is my favorite player of all time. I thought about that after I put it in there. I had already gone to bed at that point and didn't feel like editing it. Lazy on my part. Larry was a workout warrior in the offseason. He was all nba defense a few times. Really bad comparison to Luka.

[audiosway]

It's interesting you use Larry Bird as a Luka comparison.  Bird won MVP in his 27-29 seasons, and was top 3 the following two.  I would be perfectly fine bitching about Luka's conditioning while watching him compete for MVPs during all of his extension years.

I was dumb. It was late and I was tired. Larry ate cake the year he was out with injury. He was all defense other years. Bad comp for Luka.

[audiosway]

Luka is in his 7th season. By comparison, Bird won his 3rd MVP in his 7th season, and in his 1st 9 seasons he was never lower than 4th (including 3 wins, and 4 2nds). FWIW he also made 3 All-Defense teams and finished as high as 3rd for DPOY one year. No one ever bitched about Bird's conditioning - far from it. Bird averaged over 3000 minutes per season for his first 9 seasons, averaging about 80 games per season and about 39 mpg, while playing at that MVP level.

If Luka is going to have that kind of career, he's way behind.

Thanks for popping this in here. I'm doing corrections all morning now. lol. It was late, I was tired...No one complained about Larry's conditioning.

[audiosway]

Really? You think Mavs have as good a chance at a ring as Luka? I think the Lakers are more likely to win 3 of the next 10 than the Mavs are to win one.

I agree with FGump. The Mavs have a really good chance at winning a title. No matter what they look like feasting on Utah and Denver that Lakers team isn't built to win right now. Denver is a first round exit right now.

And the Mavs aren't as bad as they looked against the Warriors. Once they get the front line back they will be hard to beat.

[KillerLeft]

It can only improve with time if they stop churning the roster.  Another big move this offseason and it will be another reset.  I have had this experience as a fan.  College basketball used to be a lot more fun before the days of one and done.  Now it seems like a completely different team every season.  It makes it much harder to get invested as a fan.

Totally agree, and that issue exists for all of us, not just those who can't wrap their heads around trading Luka at all. 

Like, for me, if (somehow) Brunson, DFS and Carlisle were still here, I'd be having a much easier time with all of this. Not because I think the team would be better, necessarily, but because I'd still fell more connected to the team in the immediate, post-Luka-era aftermath. 

Kyrie is cool and all, and a much more successful addition than I anticipated, but I never expected him to be the face of this franchise, and we've only seen AD play (almost) one freaking game. It was a GOOD game, and I so wish he had been able to keep playing. I might feel better by now if he had.

[mvossman]

I agree with FGump. The Mavs have a really good chance at winning a title. No matter what they look like feasting on Utah and Denver that Lakers team isn't built to win right now. Denver is a first round exit right now.

And the Mavs aren't as bad as they looked against the Warriors. Once they get the front line back they will be hard to beat.

If Nico makes the right moves complementing our two stars over the next two seasons they may have a chance to win a championship (they will need injury luck in the playoffs).  After that its tough to see a team led by two past their prime 35 year olds with injury history make it through a deep playoff run.

I can think of no precedent where an NBA team went through this massive of a change mid season and won a title, and it will be even harder in this case due to all of the injuries.  They don't have any experience playing together, there has been no time to see what fits and what doesn't and make roster changes accordingly, and they don't have overwhelming talent to make up for these limitations.  I'm not saying its impossible, but the odds seem really stacked against them winning it all this season.

[DallasMaverick]

Totally agree, and that issue exists for all of us, not just those who can't wrap their heads around trading Luka at all. 

Like, for me, if (somehow) Brunson, DFS and Carlisle were still here, I'd be having a much easier time with all of this. Not because I think the team would be better, necessarily, but because I'd still fell more connected to the team in the immediate, post-Luka-era aftermath. 

Kyrie is cool and all, and a much more successful addition than I anticipated, but I never expected him to be the face of this franchise, and we've only seen AD play (almost) one freaking game. It was a GOOD game, and I so wish he had been able to keep playing. I might feel better by now if he had.

Emotions come and go.

In a little while, we’ll all be yelling and screaming for our team again.

If they win consistently, all will be forgiven and forgotten.

On the occasions on which they lose, people will dredge up the same old hurts and grudges.

Kinda like when you get in an argument with your wife, and she brings up something you said 20 years ago.

It’s just human nature.

[FireNicoHarrison]

I agree with FGump. The Mavs have a really good chance at winning a title. No matter what they look like feasting on Utah and Denver that Lakers team isn't built to win right now. Denver is a first round exit right now.

And the Mavs aren't as bad as they looked against the Warriors. Once they get the front line back they will be hard to beat.

I agree on Lakers and Denver but... Lakers have at least 5/7 of Luka to build a contender and Denver already won a ring and they have Nikola Jokic.

Mavs were a contender 7 months ago and now they are a totally mess leaded by a couple of 33yo injury prone LeBron Robins and 0 playmaking.

I switch our situation with Lakers or Denver all day...

[F Gump]

Unfortunately Irving is no more a top 20 and street clothes... Who knows, maybe he will never play more 40 games in a season.

Maybe Luka will never win a ring but Irving and AD will never win a ring for sure so i take the eventuality.

Your extreme and incessant total negativity about all things Mavs-related, with every post another version of whatever set of insults you can imagine to make about players, team, possibilities, feels way out of place in a Mavs forum. It's not persuasive, just negative raining down. 

Nice trolling, because after the first post with this schtick, trolling is all the rest of it is. Trying to stir up emotions and make this place a drag.

I'm putting you on ignore, because it's just too stupid to keep wading through, with no intelligent thought or nuance ever offered. But please get lost.

[F Gump]

I think the dedication/conditioning issues just kept getting bigger and bigger the longer things went on and it is apparent that Luka's private team was not helping him meet expectations. So you can imagine the reluctance to laying out $70MM/yr for a player that feels more and more like the second coming of James Harden. 

One twist I haven't seen discussed is: what if Luka's team was signaling they were looking for a trade kicker or no-trade-clause in the next contract? It would be hard enough to move a super max contract, but adding another 10% or having to get the player's approval before pursuing a deal may have been a bridge too far. Haven't heard it said anywhere, just was wondering if there was another facet to this diamond.

That was not potentially anything game-changing re a supermax extension for Luka.
1 With any extension, a no-trade cannot be added if it did not exist in the contract being extended.
2 Luka would not have qualified for a no-trade anyway. Requires 8 prior NBA seasons, including 4 with the team being signed with.
3 A trade kicker could have been negotiated into an extension, but if the Mavs had given Luka a supermax extension, that trade kicker would not have been in play for 2 years (the 1st year after signing, the player cannot be traded at all, and the next year he's already making full max salary, which means the kicker would not be applicable).

[The Jom]

I agree with FGump. The Mavs have a really good chance at winning a title. No matter what they look like feasting on Utah and Denver that Lakers team isn't built to win right now. Denver is a first round exit right now.

And the Mavs aren't as bad as they looked against the Warriors. Once they get the front line back they will be hard to beat.

Wow. I sure hope so. But I can’t get on board that wagon today, band or no.

[Smitty]

That was not potentially anything game-changing re a supermax extension for Luka.
1 With any extension, a no-trade cannot be added if it did not exist in the contract being extended.
2 Luka would not have qualified for a no-trade anyway. Requires 8 prior NBA seasons, including 4 with the team being signed with.
3 A trade kicker could have been negotiated into an extension, but if the Mavs had given Luka a supermax extension, that trade kicker would not have been in play for 2 years (the 1st year after signing, the player cannot be traded at all, and the next year he's already making full max salary, which means the kicker would not be applicable).

You continue to be a valuable asset for this board. Great stuff!

I hope we never trade you.

[F Gump]

Wow. I sure hope so. But I can’t get on board that wagon today, band or no.

I know there are lots of if's and question marks with the Mavs, but I just think people are glossing over the Lakers issues, which to me seem more likely to keep them from a title.

I don't think the Lakers have any real shot this season. Too small, not enough depth, the overlap between Luka and Lebron is too clunky. And going forward, with LA there's BOTH a question of Luka's durability and ceiling (due to an inability to withstand the rigors of 82 games plus an extended playoff time), and also Lebron's limited shelf life. And they're not going to have a lot of roster-building flexibility anytime soon - right now their contracts for next year put them over Apron 1, limiting their choices considerably.

If I am picking who has the best chance this season, I think a HEALTHY Mavs team has a much higher ceiling than LA, although until we see them play for a stretch, it's hard to be sure how high that ceiling goes. Going forward, I think the likelihood of DAL getting healthy is greater than the likelihood of LA getting better. Obviously neither team goes far with injured players and broken down players. How it plays out, we won't know until we get there.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Your extreme and incessant total negativity about all things Mavs-related, with every post another version of whatever set of insults you can imagine to make about players, team, possibilities, feels way out of place in a Mavs forum. It's not persuasive, just negative raining down. 

Nice trolling, because after the first post with this schtick, trolling is all the rest of it is. Trying to stir up emotions and make this place a drag.

I'm putting you on ignore, because it's just too stupid to keep wading through, with no intelligent thought or nuance ever offered. But please get lost.

You can spit out all the optimism you want but Mavs are what they are.

We are not a contender now and we will not be a contender at least for the next 5 years.

Nico Harrison sold Mavs present and future, next summer the pression on him will be huge and he will be forced to do a block buster trade for KD or another old injury prone superstar ruining the franchise even more.
Then he'll go back to work at Nike or maybe Lakers FO.

See you. Reality hits hard. I know.

[mvossman]

I know there are lots of if's and question marks with the Mavs, but I just think people are glossing over the Lakers issues, which to me seem more likely to keep them from a title.

I don't think the Lakers have any real shot this season. Too small, not enough depth, the overlap between Luka and Lebron is too clunky. And going forward, with LA there's BOTH a question of Luka's durability and ceiling (due to an inability to withstand the rigors of 82 games plus an extended playoff time), and also Lebron's limited shelf life. And they're not going to have a lot of roster-building flexibility anytime soon - right now their contracts for next year put them over Apron 1, limiting their choices considerably.

If I am picking who has the best chance this season, I think a HEALTHY Mavs team has a much higher ceiling than LA, although until we see them play for a stretch, it's hard to be sure how high that ceiling goes. Going forward, I think the likelihood of DAL getting healthy is greater than the likelihood of LA getting better. Obviously neither team goes far with injured players and broken down players. How it plays out, we won't know until we get there.

The Lakers face the same fit and continuity concerns as the Mavs, probably more so.  Its also important to note that the Lakers were a play-in team last season while the Mavs went to the finals.  They have a lot bigger hill to climb, and they don't have a ton of assets to do it with.  Its a shame for Luka, who had a lot better chance of eventually winning a title with the Mavs than he does now.

[audiosway]

I know there are lots of if's and question marks with the Mavs, but I just think people are glossing over the Lakers issues, which to me seem more likely to keep them from a title.

I don't think the Lakers have any real shot this season. Too small, not enough depth, the overlap between Luka and Lebron is too clunky. And going forward, with LA there's BOTH a question of Luka's durability and ceiling (due to an inability to withstand the rigors of 82 games plus an extended playoff time), and also Lebron's limited shelf life. And they're not going to have a lot of roster-building flexibility anytime soon - right now their contracts for next year put them over Apron 1, limiting their choices considerably.

If I am picking who has the best chance this season, I think a HEALTHY Mavs team has a much higher ceiling than LA, although until we see them play for a stretch, it's hard to be sure how high that ceiling goes. Going forward, I think the likelihood of DAL getting healthy is greater than the likelihood of LA getting better. Obviously neither team goes far with injured players and broken down players. How it plays out, we won't know until we get there.

Totally agree. I think a healthy Mavs squad looks a lot like the 2011 team honestly. AD is no Dirk shooting outside. But, he is a beast in the paint and mid post. On defense they will have a chance to be better than the 2011 team due to the front line being so dominant. Physical team that's hard to score on. That's what I see.

I have a feeling we'll see PJ take a step forward in his growth this post season. He just has that look about him right now.

One thing to really pay attention to right now is that Kyrie is leading the team. He is putting his nose in and playing hard on defense. He has been getting physical with opposing players as well. The team seems to be feeding off of that.

[audiosway]

Your extreme and incessant total negativity about all things Mavs-related, with every post another version of whatever set of insults you can imagine to make about players, team, possibilities, feels way out of place in a Mavs forum. It's not persuasive, just negative raining down. 

Nice trolling, because after the first post with this schtick, trolling is all the rest of it is. Trying to stir up emotions and make this place a drag.

I'm putting you on ignore, because it's just too stupid to keep wading through, with no intelligent thought or nuance ever offered. But please get lost.

I had to join you on that one. This is the first time I've had to put someone on ignore.

[Winter]

I had to join you on that one. This is the first time I've had to put someone on ignore.

Same

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Embiid is a 7 foot guy in his 30s with injury history and George is 34.  Not sure its valid to compare those guys with a 25 year old.

Good point. However, I was comparing the fact Philly signed both to max deals, regardless of age and injury history in a attempt to win it all.. It's looking like a very bad decision. I also was referencing a post a few pages back by Khalid 1987 saying if you're more concerned about paying out big contracts, you aren't concerned about winning.