Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[fifteenth]

I think Nico looked at the defensive studs on the 3 up and coming Western teams (OKC--SGA,Dort,JW,Chet,Hartenstein,  HOU--Amen,Tari,Brooks,JSJ  SAS--Wemby,Champagnie,Sochan), there's no way to build a roster to match these. 

ugh

[Jym]

If you want to make a laker game thread be my guest. 

I think the general audience might not like it very much. But we can take a poll

more just joking 
I'm much more likely to just move on entirely and find a new hobby

[Dahlsim]

I'm not sold Kidd was totally in the dark, regardless of what Nico says.

However, Kidd has done everything possible to keep his fingerprints off the decision, even if his opinions drove the initial discussions. He still has to coach the team and wants as few trust issues as possible.

I can understand how you just can't believe Kidd was in the dark here, it seems impossible to imagine until you also think about how unbelievable it is that the entire league full of GM's and agents could also be kept in the dark?  
Then you can't believe that the entire sports media full time insider industry was kept in the dark? 
Then you can't believe Luka Magic himself and his entire team was kept in the dark? 
Then you can't believe that Lebron-King-of-NBA himself was somehow kept completely in the dark? 

By all indications, this was maybe the most secretive private major transaction in the history of the game with 2 guys and their immediate owners being the only people that actually had to know.  Even facilitating team, Utah says they only were made privy to their part in the transaction and were not told what the full trade deal was they were participating in.  

So if all that is true as it appears to be then yes, its very possible that Jason Kidd was also kept in the dark.  His job then was simply to agree with Nico's direction in a general which is why I imagine he insisted that it was made public the decision making part of the deal was not his.

[SleepingHero]

more just joking 
I'm much more likely to just move on entirely and find a new hobby

Totally understandable although I'll miss talking ball with you.

I'm a Laker fan for now too ya know!

[Dahlsim]

Is it bad of me that I would have rather lost with Luka than won with whatever Nico is trying to build…?

I don’t know. The callousness of this trade, coupled with the sheer insanity of it, has broken me as a fan.

I share some of that feeling as a Mavs fan.  Normally, winning a chip would make up for it all for most fans because winning it all can be so rare and so difficult for most cities.  After all, this team has ONE ring in 40 years! 
Even then its been almost 15 years since that one. 
So yeah, Nico can try to make the case that another franchise ring would make worth giving up the franchise centerpiece for the future. 

The problem is even then, he didn't just trade Luka.  This was all done in a way that reeks of DIRTY pool and hidden agenda.  

• He gifted the trade to the League's #1 Prima Donna Franchise the Lakers.  That's suspicious. 
  
• He has close long standing relationships, buddies with the franchise he has now gifted with this superstar talent and box office draw. 
  
• Nico did this even when his allegiance is supposed to be with the Lakers competitor he now works for.  That's ugly.  I mean think about it he could have traded Luka anywhere but he had now traded him to a team the Mavericks very well could have to go through in order to even get to the NBA finals.  Luka could easily be their finals block for the next decade or more! 
  
• He deliberately did not take bids from the rest of the league on one of if not the single most valuable player asset in the entire league!  This part is not explainable to me, under any circumstance. 
  

  
Even if Nico's heart was set on Anthony Davis, he has to make the Lakers bid against the highest bidders. 
Nico owes this to the fanbase and the players on the team and the city of Dallas.  He must get the best price, that is his fiduciary responsibility. The failure to do this would be incompetence except that we know Nico is not incompetent to that level.  No GM would do that.  That only leaves one reason in my mind, its dirty.  He did the deal in some part to benefit the parties that clearly benefitted here, 

1. his buddies in LA, 
   
2. Nike, 
   
3. NBA financial coffers and apparently 
   
4. the newest master, Mavs billionaire-gambling-powerhouse Miriam Adelson
   

So while winning would be a salve, the dirty nature of this deal including the obvious failure to get back fair value won't be washed away.

[hakeemfaan]

I share some of that feeling as a Mavs fan.  Normally, winning a chip would make up for it all for most fans because winning it all can be so rare and so difficult for most cities.  After all, this team has ONE ring in 40 years! 
Even then its been almost 15 years since that one. 
So yeah, Nico can try to make the case that another franchise ring would make worth giving up the franchise centerpiece for the future. 

The problem is even then, he didn't just trade Luka.  This was all done in a way that reeks of DIRTY pool and hidden agenda.  

• He gifted the trade to the League's #1 Prima Donna Franchise the Lakers.  That's suspicious. 
  
• He has close long standing relationships, buddies with the franchise he has now gifted with this superstar talent and box office draw. 
  
• Nico did this even when his allegiance is supposed to be with the Lakers competitor he now works for.  That's ugly.  I mean think about it he could have traded Luka anywhere but he had now traded him to a team the Mavericks very well could have to go through in order to even get to the NBA finals.  Luka could easily be their finals block for the next decade or more! 
  
• He deliberately did not take bids from the rest of the league on one of if not the single most valuable player asset in the entire league!  This part is not explainable to me, under any circumstance. 
  

  
Even if Nico's heart was set on Anthony Davis, he has to make the Lakers bid against the highest bidders. 
Nico owes this to the fanbase and the players on the team and the city of Dallas.  He must get the best price, that is his fiduciary responsibility. The failure to do this would be incompetence except that we know Nico is not incompetent to that level.  No GM would do that.  That only leaves one reason in my mind, its dirty.  He did the deal in some part to benefit the parties that clearly benefitted here, 

1. his buddies in LA, 
   
2. Nike, 
   
3. NBA financial coffers and apparently 
   
4. the newest master, Mavs billionaire-gambling-powerhouse Miriam Adelson
   

So while winning would be a salve, the dirty nature of this deal including the obvious failure to get back fair value won't be washed away.

The other side I have heard is that throwing it open ticks off Luka, he tells all teams he will only take an extension with LA, LA then doesn’t even have to give up AD

My response to that…I am perfectly fine with taking that risk since the reward of getting a worse and older player AD on a 2 year window and another pick 5 years from now doesn’t move the needle for me to not open the bidding. If Luka walked and signed with the Lakers on his own so be it. I would not have traded him to the Lakers. There was zero urgency to do that 

I hear how the Lakers should have been forced other picks and players. No. the Lakers to me had nothing I coveted either short term or long term. If you really want to go all in for the next two years and make a totally insane move, there was only one player on that team who fits that criterion. It’s Bron and even Bron I take because the team won’t have to change much with him vs Luka and even there no GM would do it.  At least I can somewhat see the crazy logic there. AD made no sense.

[hakeemfaan]

Remember the Covid fiasco and eveyone immediately linking it to the Wuhan lab. At that time it was shot down vociferously though it made the most sense. Now we know it was almost certainly a leak from the lab.

I know this will never come out as the league itself will have to shut down , but a guy going and making a secretive deal with his long time friend who works for a rival organization and sending a generational player for pennies on the dollar…yeah tell me vociferously he really loved AD though AD at the cost of Luka opens up more holes than you are trying to fill with this roster. It just doesn’t pass the common sense smell test. I know nothing will happen just like nothing happened when the Knicks even more blatantly colluded to get Brunson.

[Hooper21]

I can understand how you just can't believe Kidd was in the dark here, it seems impossible to imagine until you also think about how unbelievable it is that the entire league full of GM's and agents could also be kept in the dark?  
Then you can't believe that the entire sports media full time insider industry was kept in the dark? 
Then you can't believe Luka Magic himself and his entire team was kept in the dark? 
Then you can't believe that Lebron-King-of-NBA himself was somehow kept completely in the dark? 

By all indications, this was maybe the most secretive private major transaction in the history of the game with 2 guys and their immediate owners being the only people that actually had to know.  Even facilitating team, Utah says they only were made privy to their part in the transaction and were not told what the full trade deal was they were participating in.  

So if all that is true as it appears to be then yes, its very possible that Jason Kidd was also kept in the dark.  His job then was simply to agree with Nico's direction in a general which is why I imagine he insisted that it was made public the decision making part of the deal was not his.

I have to believe Ainge would have been opportunistic and jumped in had he known Luka was available.

[omahen]

I said I will be gone, but TDL pulled me back in as this place is great to discuss trades. I am really trying to stay away from Luka discussions here, but I need to say one more. A lot of talking heads are saying now that Mavs are better after the trade. Not better than Lakers, which I could accept. But better with AD than with Luka. Based on what??? They basically switched Luka for AD. Luka is a better player than AD. This team was not constructed for AD, it was constructed for Luka. Sure, AD is a better defender. But, Luka is a much, much better creator and scorer and that was not replaced. Everyone watching Mavs could see Kai is not reallly a PG, as he averages less than 5 assists per game. There is simply no logic in claiming that Mavs are better now than before the trade.

I could accept Mavs are better than Lakers now. Sure, Lakers were not constructed for Luka, that team was not that good before the trade and they do have some serious question marks. I could understand the long term concerns about giving up a huge contract for what some think is a lost case (although I don't agree). I just can't buy these Mavs are better with AD than they would be with Luka. Time will tell...

[SleepingHero]

I said I will be gone, but TDL pulled me back in as this place is great to discuss trades. I am really trying to stay away from Luka discussions here, but I need to say one more. A lot of talking heads are saying now that Mavs are better after the trade. Not better than Lakers, which I could accept. But better with AD than with Luka. Based on what??? They basically switched Luka for AD. Luka is a better player than AD. This team was not constructed for AD, it was constructed for Luka. Sure, AD is a better defender. But, Luka is a much, much better creator and scorer and that was not replaced. Everyone watching Mavs could see Kai is not reallly a PG, as he averages less than 5 assists per game. There is simply no logic in claiming that Mavs are better now than before the trade.

I could accept Mavs are better than Lakers now. Sure, Lakers were not constructed for Luka, that team was not that good before the trade and they do have some serious question marks. I could understand the long term concerns about giving up a huge contract for what some think is a lost case (although I don't agree). I just can't buy these Mavs are better with AD than they would be with Luka. Time will tell...

Well let me be the first to say welcome back (even if its temporary!) 

I missed your takes. I am distraught that these are the circumstances that we have to welcome you back with. There really is no rational for this trade. There IS a reason why every person from almost every walk of life has clowned Nico and the Mavs as a whole for making it. I mean hell, we even had the dictionary tweeting today clowning the Mavs!

It's a colossal, illogical mistake. A forever stain on the franchise. These Mavs are not better without Luka. They won't be better until, maybe 15 years from now, they find another generational talent by sheer luck. And I am very much willing to bet that generational talent will be nowhere near the level of Luka. 

Time will certainly tell.

[SleepingHero]

[omahen]

Well let me be the first to say welcome back (even if its temporary!) 

I missed your takes. I am distraught that these are the circumstances that we have to welcome you back with. There really is no rational for this trade. There IS a reason why every person from almost every walk of life has clowned Nico and the Mavs as a whole for making it. I mean hell, we even had the dictionary tweeting today clowning the Mavs!

It's a colossal, illogical mistake. A forever stain on the franchise. These Mavs are not better without Luka. They won't be better until, maybe 15 years from now, they find another generational talent by sheer luck. And I am very much willing to bet that generational talent will be nowhere near the level of Luka. 

Time will certainly tell.

Thanks. If perhaps I wasn't clear - I was speaking solely about now, this season. A lot of talking heads are saying Mavs are better now, this season. I just don't understand. Future is further away and lots of things could happen. Perhaps Nico is right and Luka will be injured more than playing. Who knows. Everyone can be smart about the future and there is really no way to tell who is right with all those hypothetical things that could or could not happen. But Mavs better now, this season? No way... At least we will know in a couple of months who was right about that.

[SleepingHero]

Thanks. If perhaps I wasn't clear - I was speaking solely about now, this season. A lot of talking heads are saying Mavs are better now, this season. I just don't understand. Future is further away and lots of things could happen. Perhaps Nico is right and Luka will be injured more than playing. Who knows. Everyone can be smart about the future and there is really no way to tell who is right with all those hypothetical things that could or could not happen. But Mavs better now, this season? No way... At least we will know in a couple of months who was right about that.

Oh yeah I got what you were putting down. And I agree. I just don't see the Mavs as a playoffs team anymore. They are probably on the outside looking in on the damn play-in at this point!

Meanwhile, Luka is Luka. He dragged Trey Burke, Reggie Bullock, Dwight Powell, and THJ to the playoffs before. I think the Lakers are poised to upset some people now.

And I will be rooting for Luka every step of the way.

As to why the pundits are talking up the Mavs? No clue. I think just for ratings and to try and quell the fans to no avail. This was such a grotesque highway robbery that we have literal protests in Dallas right now.

[Dahlsim]

ASTUTE!!!

To add to this, I think Nico looked at the defensive studs on the 3 up and coming Western teams (OKC--SGA,Dort,JW,Chet,Hartenstein,  HOU--Amen,Tari,Brooks,JSJ  SAS--Wemby,Champagnie,Sochan), there's no way to build a roster to match these.  OKC has 7 of the top 10 defensive rating players.  HOU or NOP would have been much better trade partners.

First, to even discuss this I have to put aside the shady way this deal was done, the lopsided return, and the crooked way the NBA appears to conspire to make their marquee teams great.  Lakers/Boston/Knicks all revived just in time to save the ratings. 

But, purely on basketball: 
I think a weak but plausible excuse can be made for this trade creating a better Mavs team in the short and near term just as you state above.  

There is a legitimate question as to whether this Mavs team that made to the finals and got dominated by Boston would have been good enough to get to the finals this year given the ascendance of the teams you cite above and the general state of the West.  The record this year didn't indicate the Mavs were anywhere near favored to make it back to the finals.  They were going to need the return of a healthy and motivated Luka + several other players and all had to catch fire at the right time to have a real chance. 

I think you have to consider that Luka on the Lakers now maybe has a better chance to win and get pass OKC and the Western powers than Luka on this Mavericks iteration would have.   
Luka is almost certainly going to be more motivated on the Lakers now that he's been insulted by Nico and the Mavs franchise.  I think he'll be motivated to improve his conditioning and body.  He was not at his physical best in Dallas.  Was he going to get there if they kept the team as is?   Maybe, but he hadn't shown he would.  
Was he fantastic offensively anyway?  Yes!  But was he also starting to be injury prone and a high risk  to be less than 100% when the playoffs and finals came around?  I think yes, he was banged up by the time they faced Boston last year. 

So now you have the same hold your breath for health concern with AD but I don't think AD has come in quite as flaccid looking as Luka had started to do.  Hey I love the guy but he was starting look like he was approaching middle age at times even though he's 25!  I love him, but I didn't like what he looked like recently.  Unfortunately now I think he'll get himself together physically but he'll be doing it for the enemy. (Why I would have traded him to anyone but the Lakers). 

• Kyrie Irving
  
• Klay Thompson
  
• P.J. Washington
  
• Anthony Davis
  
• Derek Lively / Daniel Gafford 
  

On the rest so far, their depth pieces are competitive.  It will be interesting to see how well the trade filler youngster Max Christie continues to develop. 

The starting 5 and overall roster could compete with any team, including OKC, SA for the next 3 years if healthy and maintained around the margins. 
Offensively they lack star power and clutch creation in the backcourt to compliment Kyrie but Klay can still look splash brotherish at times.   I think Spencer D. and if he gets back to form Dante Exum was pretty capable last season but they no longer have that 2 headed offensive creation monster that was Luka/Kyrie.  

Offensively AD is a 2-way all star who can have big games scoring too so J. Kidd on paper, when healthy has talent to work with.  They have to recreate the offense now without Luka but they also have get the teams morale back to championship level and that also could be challenging.

[Jym]

[mvossman]

First, to even discuss this I have to put aside the shady way this deal was done, the lopsided return, and the crooked way the NBA appears to conspire to make their marquee teams great.  Lakers/Boston/Knicks all revived just in time to save the ratings. 

But, purely on basketball: 
I think a weak but plausible excuse can be made for this trade creating a better Mavs team in the short and near term just as you state above.  

There is a legitimate question as to whether this Mavs team that made to the finals and got dominated by Boston would have been good enough to get to the finals this year given the ascendance of the teams you cite above and the general state of the West.  The record this year didn't indicate the Mavs were anywhere near favored to make it back to the finals.  They were going to need the return of a healthy and motivated Luka + several other players and all had to catch fire at the right time to have a real chance. 

I think you have to consider that Luka on the Lakers now maybe has a better chance to win and get pass OKC and the Western powers than Luka on this Mavericks iteration would have.   
Luka is almost certainly going to be more motivated on the Lakers now that he's been insulted by Nico and the Mavs franchise.  I think he'll be motivated to improve his conditioning and body.  He was not at his physical best in Dallas.  Was he going to get there if they kept the team as is?   Maybe, but he hadn't shown he would.  
Was he fantastic offensively anyway?  Yes!  But was he also starting to be injury prone and a high risk  to be less than 100% when the playoffs and finals came around?  I think yes, he was banged up by the time they faced Boston last year. 

So now you have the same hold your breath for health concern with AD but I don't think AD has come in quite as flaccid looking as Luka had started to do.  Hey I love the guy but he was starting look like he was approaching middle age at times even though he's 25!  I love him, but I didn't like what he looked like recently.  Unfortunately now I think he'll get himself together physically but he'll be doing it for the enemy. (Why I would have traded him to anyone but the Lakers). 

• Kyrie Irving
  
• Klay Thompson
  
• P.J. Washington
  
• Anthony Davis
  
• Derek Lively / Daniel Gafford 
  

On the rest so far, their depth pieces are competitive.  It will be interesting to see how well the trade filler youngster Max Christie continues to develop. 

The starting 5 and overall roster could compete with any team, including OKC, SA for the next 3 years if healthy and maintained around the margins. 
Offensively they lack star power and clutch creation in the backcourt to compliment Kyrie but Klay can still look splash brotherish at times.   I think Spencer D. and if he gets back to form Dante Exum was pretty capable last season but they no longer have that 2 headed offensive creation monster that was Luka/Kyrie.  

Offensively AD is a 2-way all star who can have big games scoring too so J. Kidd on paper, when healthy has talent to work with.  They have to recreate the offense now without Luka but they also have get the teams morale back to championship level and that also could be challenging.

Wild disagree on the Lakers having a better chance with Luka than the Mavs would have.  The Mavs current record is a reflection of massive injury and illness.  The day Luka got traded the Mavs had the exact same record that they did last year at this time.  A lot of things would have to go right for a repeat, but its still more likely than the Lakers right now, and that's after they sent out their last assets to get a center specifically for Luka (the kind of decision the Mavs could have made instead of this insanity).

I don't believe that starting lineup is contender worthy.  They don't have a true point guard and I don't think two center lineups are effective in the playoffs as the defense is likely to get torched on the perimeter.  I don't see any chance this team can handle a team like OKC in a 7 game series.

[khaled1987]

Listened to Ben & Skin show and Skin seems to think Nico Looked at what San Antonio and OKC are building and determined the Mavs need to win a title in the next 2-3 years because those teams will soon be unbeatable.

OKC couldn't win a title with 3 first ballot HOF, who were all future MVP, and top 10 of their generations. Never mind some amazing surrounding cast like Ibaka.


Spurs has Pop as the coach with a bad heart at the age of 76. He isn't staying for long there, and there board has failed to build a contender since 2014 and weren't anything spectacular after they lost Kawhi, whom they mishandled, they aren't exactly a sure thing. 

History tells us over and over that there is no such a thing as sure thing when it come to chips. And current era and rules makes winning multiple chips more difficult. Wasn't last 5 titles won by different teams? And only 3 teams had multiple final appearances during that time (none were more than twice). 

This just sounds like they are spouting BS.

[Dahlsim]

The other side I have heard is that throwing it open ticks off Luka, he tells all teams he will only take an extension with LA, LA then doesn’t even have to give up AD

Interesting.  That implies that Luka gave some reason to believe that he would react that way with specific demands for only LA if he were put on the block.   Haven't heard any indications of this but I did hear Luka specifically deny that he or his team expressed any desire to be traded. 

I see no reasonable excuse for failing to force a bidding war and getting all you can for a player of Luka's magnitude, even if your target was AD all along.  A trades of an All-star of his magnitude with the 6 year age difference demanded at least that other 1st rounder.   The Mavs should have restocked their picks much more on this transaction. 

The trade asset is important because the Lakers have already restocked their center position thanks to the fact they were able to keep their valuable picks and last years 1st rounder. Lakers should have been left with a bare cupboard, not so well positioned to trade themselves right back into contention.

[hakeemfaan]

Interesting.  That implies that Luka gave some reason to believe that he would react that way with specific demands for only LA if he were put on the block.   Haven't heard any indications of this but I did hear Luka specifically deny that he or his team expressed any desire to be traded. 

I see no reasonable excuse for failing to force a bidding war and getting all you can for a player of Luka's magnitude, even if your target was AD all along.  A trades of an All-star of his magnitude with the 6 year age difference demanded at least that other 1st rounder.   The Mavs should have restocked their picks much more on this transaction. 

The trade asset is important because the Lakers have already restocked their center position thanks to the fact they were able to keep their valuable picks and last years 1st rounder. Lakers should have been left with a bare cupboard, not so well positioned to trade themselves right back into contention.

I was just stating some of the arguments thrown by folks trying to either support Nico for who knows why or because they were genuinely trying to understand what went through his. brain.   

It was a disastrous move. Nico has no ties here. He will collect his money and move on when he gets fired. Will probably end up in some job at Klutch  he doesn’t care.  He and ownership already destroyed a generation of fans.

[Dahlsim]

Wild disagree on the Lakers having a better chance with Luka than the Mavs would have.  The Mavs current record is a reflection of massive injury and illness.  The day Luka got traded the Mavs had the exact same record that they did last year at this time. 

Yes but those injuries and illnesses are part of the season just like the salary cap is part of the game.  They had to calculate do we like our chances of having this roster healthy at the right time and what does our roster flexibility look like next year if we don't win it this year? 

What I said is I think Luka has a better chance, I meant sooner or later, than he did with this team this year and based on the way things were trending with this roster in the near future.  Yes the Mavs made an awesome run last year however as much as I despise what Nico did, he has a point about Luka's trending condition, the pending money trap and projecting the roster in the short term.  They got a guy like Klay for the near term run for example.  For a guy about to demand that massive supermax spot in your salary, repeat injuries to he calf has to concern a team.  
Look at the Sixers now with Embiid.    

If you're looking at Luka's chance at getting back to finals with this Mavs roster standing pat this year, you have to look at the improved OKC team which wasn't even full strength yet.  Did you favor this years Luka Mavs over the Western contenders this year?  I just don't see that with Luka's trending condition they would be favored over the top contenders in the West.   

Its also true that this team was going to need better defense. I think they made nice moves to improve it, but AD and the youngster they got with him make this a better defensive team, probably elite when healthy.  

Even if they somehow emerged from the West with Luka this year and Luka was able remain healthy (which he wasn't last season) did they really catch up to the best of the east, Boston, now CLE, Bucks, Knicks?   Not saying they didn't have a chance but I don't think they could feel good about their chances.