FA: Klay Thompson Comes to Dallas| 3yrs/50mil

[F Gump]

Smart analysis ^ MS.

As I read all the comments from everyone on the Mavs moves, I keep thinking I am way more apprehensive than most are on Grimes. I certainly HOPE he is all that, but to be realistic, he was a total spare last season. That led NY to ship him out when they are looking to win rather than keep him in their developing mix, and DET quickly let him go after a look-see, because they want players who can help them get better. We are expecting him to be a great defender and a great shooter and a real 3-and-D contributor, and not sure that's what we really got. He may turn out to be unplayable (and an expiring that can be a trade filler if one is needed), like other teams decided.

One thing we know about Grimes is that he isn't shy about shooting, and he will get his own when he plays. There's a lot of ways that can play out, and some of them are not enjoyable.

As a backup with Kyrie and Klay and perhaps even Hardy ahead of him for minutes, we will be fine either way. And I certainly would love for him to turn out to be really good. But I think we're getting way out over our skis on him as we assess the summer so far.

[Winter]

One other think about Klay.

The reference to him as "old" or "worn out" may be over-stating it. At 34 years old, he's had a bum knee and an achilles problem. He didn't play a single game for two years, so he's really only played for eleven seasons - not thirteen. During those other seasons when he played, he was a remarkably durable playing over 70 games six times (80 games three times). He played 77 games last year! It's not like we're seeing a guy who is frequently injured. He's been significantly more reliable than guys like Kawhi, George or a host of other players around his age who are making more money.

Offensively, Klay's 20 PPG were generally reliable most nights and defenses will have to work a lot harder to contain him. He won't be as good defensively as he was earlier in his career when he was exceptional, but he's no slacker. As a whole, this team will have to work defensively, but we have some rotation players that will hopefully allow us to do more than just tread water.

[KillerLeft]

One other think about Klay.

The reference to him as "old" or "worn out" may be over-stating it. At 34 years old, he's had a bum knee and an achilles problem. He didn't play a single game for two years, so he's really only played for eleven seasons - not thirteen. During those other seasons when he played, he was a remarkably durable playing over 70 games six times (80 games three times). He played 77 games last year! It's not like we're seeing a guy who is frequently injured. He's been significantly more reliable than guys like Kawhi, George or a host of other players around his age who are making more money.

Offensively, Klay's 20 PPG were generally reliable most nights and defenses will have to work a lot harder to contain him. He won't be as good defensively as he was earlier in his career when he was exceptional, but he's no slacker. As a whole, this team will have to work defensively, but we have some rotation players that will hopefully allow us to do more than just tread water.

From an availability standpoint, he's a much better bet than either Green or Kleber, both of whom were depended upon last season. From that angle, this is a move in the right direction. 

I think the "worn out" and "old" and "injured" takes are more about the decline in his ability to move laterally and defend. People are concerned that he's basically going to be Luka on defense (I think he'll be a little better than that) and will be taking the minutes-role of DJJ, who was literally the Mavs' best in covering up for the deficiencies of Luka and Kyrie on that end. Having said that, the more I think about what I expect to be the likely rotation choices, the more hopeful I am that this can be washed in the aggregate and that the team has a chance to be better on the other side. 

It's not nearly this simple, but you can kind of imagine him in a 3-way rotation with PJ and Luka, defensively, and then this all starts to make more sense, imo. There are ways the Mavs can keep Marshall and/or Grimes (assuming their bet on him to bounce back is a good one) on the floor a lot more than we might have immediately assumed the other night, especially given the imrproved offensive skills both of those guys bring to the table over DJJ and Green. 

I'm not entirely sure this is going to work yet, but I thiiiiiink I'm starting to see what they're gong for.

[JaxRyder]

Do we have any info on who the Front Office is looking at regarding the leftover $? Personally I like Bey or DSJ

[michaeltex]

Smart analysis ^ MS.

As I read all the comments from everyone on the Mavs moves, I keep thinking I am way more apprehensive than most are on Grimes. I certainly HOPE he is all that, but to be realistic, he was a total spare last season. That led NY to ship him out when they are looking to win rather than keep him in their developing mix, and DET quickly let him go after a look-see, because they want players who can help them get better. We are expecting him to be a great defender and a great shooter and a real 3-and-D contributor, and not sure that's what we really got. He may turn out to be unplayable (and an expiring that can be a trade filler if one is needed), like other teams decided.

One thing we know about Grimes is that he isn't shy about shooting, and he will get his own when he plays. There's a lot of ways that can play out, and some of them are not enjoyable.

As a backup with Kyrie and Klay and perhaps even Hardy ahead of him for minutes, we will be fine either way. And I certainly would love for him to turn out to be really good. But I think we're getting way out over our skis on him as we assess the summer so far.

I guess my hope is that Grimes is a more willing shooter than Green, and from the comments, it sounds like he is. If he's smart enough to understand the defensive goals and can be counted on to make a few shots when open, then he should grow into a role in DAL. Maybe not a consistent started, but a dependable bench contributor. Not costing much to kick the tires and it helped move the THJ contract.

[KillerLeft]

I guess my hope is that Grimes is a more willing shooter than Green, and from the comments, it sounds like he is. If he's smart enough to understand the defensive goals and can be counted on to make a few shots when open, then he should grow into a role in DAL. Maybe not a consistent started, but a dependable bench contributor. Not costing much to kick the tires and it helped move the THJ contract.

Grimes, if healthy and playing well, is without question a more willing shooter than Josh Green and a much, much better defender. The optimism over his addition is not delusional, although Gump makes a good point that last year wasn't good for him, and it might not be smart of us to assume he's going to make a huge impact. 

I think he will, personally, and the trade is being heralded as a "smart bet," nationally, but the word "bet" is part of that opinion, lol. I am not super up on his injury status, I just know the player he was the year before, on the Knicks. THAT player could help this team a LOT.

[Smitty]

To jump on the Grimes train. I don’t know what he will or won’t be here but he’s been pretty good on the defensive end so far in his career.

https://x.com/the_bball_index/status/164...88416?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

“Our Matchup Difficulty stat shows which defenders are guarding the highest caliber offensive players.

Top 10:

1. Quentin Grimes
2. Herb Jones
3. Dillon Brooks
4. Lu Dort
5. Jaden McDaniels
6. Alex Caruso
7. Dorian Finney-Smith
8. Jrue Holiday
9. OG Anunoby
10. De'Anthony Melton”


23-24 DRTG 108.6 in 20 mpg
22-23 DRTG 114.2 in 30 mpg
21-22 DRTG 105.0 in 17 mpg

And his shooting numbers have already been touched on.

[mvossman]

Smart analysis ^ MS.

As I read all the comments from everyone on the Mavs moves, I keep thinking I am way more apprehensive than most are on Grimes. I certainly HOPE he is all that, but to be realistic, he was a total spare last season. That led NY to ship him out when they are looking to win rather than keep him in their developing mix, and DET quickly let him go after a look-see, because they want players who can help them get better. We are expecting him to be a great defender and a great shooter and a real 3-and-D contributor, and not sure that's what we really got. He may turn out to be unplayable (and an expiring that can be a trade filler if one is needed), like other teams decided.

One thing we know about Grimes is that he isn't shy about shooting, and he will get his own when he plays. There's a lot of ways that can play out, and some of them are not enjoyable.

As a backup with Kyrie and Klay and perhaps even Hardy ahead of him for minutes, we will be fine either way. And I certainly would love for him to turn out to be really good. But I think we're getting way out over our skis on him as we assess the summer so far.

The sample of grimes being a quality 3&D player is much larger than the sample of him not (which includes coach issues, injury and the hell of being traded to Detroit). There is definitely some risk there, but I think he is a good bet. To be honest, I think Klay is a bigger risk.

[F Gump]

Do we have any info on who the Front Office is looking at regarding the leftover $? Personally I like Bey or DSJ

Right now that 14th (final) slot is apparently filled with Lawson. His contract is not guaranteed, so they can replace him at no cost, but have not done so yet afaik.

They might keep Lawson, of course. They should know whether he's a fit or not.

My guess is that Morris eventually replaces Lawson, because I think they value what he adds to chemistry. It's a long season, and personalities matter when you rub up against the same 20-25 people over and over.

I don't think they will want to add a player who will expect minutes, and that player who is looking for a place to play basketball won't want to be here. I don't see where many minutes would be available.

Here's the depth chart as I see it, and I've added players in brackets that I think can slide to that position if needed, and that are in line to get some minutes if any are left over and available, such as when an injury happens. Obviously you can extend a player playing fewer minutes to more, as well. Some players playing a different position will be better at it than others, but do you really need one more mouth to feed with no more minutes than you have? Also, they will have multiple two-ways, who can be used as players, and that seems to me like where they should focus.

 C - Gafford, Lively, Powell      [Maxi]
PF - PJW, Maxi, Omax           [Naji]
SF - Klay, Naji (Lawson?)        [PJW] [Grimes] [Exum]
SG - Kyrie, Grimes, Hardy      [Exum] [Klay] (Lawson?)
PG - Luka, Exum                      [Kyrie] [Hardy]

[Smitty]

Right now that 14th (final) slot is apparently filled with Lawson. His contract is not guaranteed, so they can replace him at no cost, but have not done so yet afaik.

They might keep Lawson, of course. They should know whether he's a fit or not.

My guess is that Morris eventually replaces Lawson, because I think they value what he adds to chemistry. It's a long season, and personalities matter when you rub up against the same 20-25 people over and over.

I don't think they will want to add a player who will expect minutes, and that player who is looking for a place to play basketball won't want to be here. I don't see where many minutes would be available.

Here's the depth chart as I see it, and I've added players in brackets that I think can slide to that position if needed, and that are in line to get some minutes if any are left over and available, such as when an injury happens. Obviously you can extend a player playing fewer minutes to more, as well. Some players playing a different position will be better at it than others, but do you really need one more mouth to feed with no more minutes than you have? Also, they will have multiple two-ways, who can be used as players, and that seems to me like where they should focus.

 C - Gafford, Lively, Powell      [Maxi]
PF - PJW, Maxi, Omax           [Naji]
SF - Klay, Naji (Lawson?)        [PJW] [Grimes] [Exum]
SG - Kyrie, Grimes, Hardy      [Exum] [Klay] (Lawson?)
PG - Luka, Exum                      [Kyrie] [Hardy]

I think you’re all over it. Good stuff as always, F Gump!

[MAVS-SLO]

Do we have any info on who the Front Office is looking at regarding the leftover $? Personally I like Bey or DSJ

Bey injured ACL in the march, so probably won't be available to play before january-february 2025.

But still, he was the lottery pick and if he is accepting vet min. (doubt anyone will offer him more) i think it is a smart move. 

Low risk - big reward situation.

Gordon Hayward, Alec Burks, Taurean Prince, Loonie Walker, Jordan Nwora, Precius Achiuwa, DSJ, Dinwiddie are all names i would keep eye on.

[Kidnova]

Bey injured ACL in the march, so probably won't be available to play before january-february 2025.

But still, he was the lottery pick and if he is accepting vet min. (doubt anyone will offer him more) i think it is a smart move. 

Low risk - big reward situation.

Gordon Hayward, Alec Burks, Taurean Prince, Loonie Walker, Jordan Nwora, Precius Achiuwa, DSJ, Dinwiddie are all names i would keep eye on.

I'd be interested in finding out what the story was with Hayward in OKC.  He's obviously not what he was in his prime, but he was decent in Charlotte.  The OKC experiment was a total and abject failure.

[DallasMaverick]

I'd be interested in finding out what the story was with Hayward in OKC.  He's obviously not what he was in his prime, but he was decent in Charlotte.  The OKC experiment was a total and abject failure.

His wife was unhappy with his role in OKC.

[DaRiv]

I feel like we all may owe Bronny James a debt of gratitude. 

LeBron:  Yeah man, I'm definitely all-in on a championship run next season!  Come join!

Klay:  [checks the Lakers draft] All-in, huh?

[Smitty]

Legler with a new pod talking about the Mavs moves.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/th...0660953448

[Chicagojk]

While I completely agree about the defense, I went out and looked and DJJ's stats. As a starter, he averages only 23.5 mpg. That's pretty low for a starter. By comparison, PJ Washington averages 32.2 mpg as a starter.

Technically speaking, you should be able to plug Marshall into those DJJ minutes seamlessly. I admit, though, that the start of games will need to be monitored as how DJJ's absence effects the team in aggregate. It's really going to be worth watching early in the season.

I get that.  I am excited about next year.  I do have some doubts though.    I would have done things different this offseason, but maybe I was thinking too small.    My way may have been a step or two backwards.  I can't complain because we still kept most of our assets and accomplish at least a few things i have been thinking about.

One of the these things I have been thinking about is how to keep our level of defense but increase the spurtability of our offense.   You really feel it against Boston.  They can do both on offense and defense, but the spurtability on offense is real.  If they hit their shots, you are done.   In the past, Dallas would lose if they didn't hit their threes.   This year, Dallas was able to win without shooting well.  They really junked up games and were able to still win.  I was worried if this was sustainable for the long term.   I had trouble finding a way to upgrade our current roster while keeping the really good defense but really getting this spurtability on offense.  Did they do it?  Not sure.  Also a few weeks ago, I had a post asking who could be our Al Horford?  I never thought of Klay.   Is that him?    I do think Dallas has more defenders now.   They just lack what DJJ did.   Maybe they have people that do it, but will that player be on the floor the last 5 minutes of games?

I think one of grimes or Marshall isn't a long term mav...especially if Omax is ready late next year or the following season.   So Dallas still have avenues to tweak their roster.  Although maybe they have what they need for the next 2-3 years and just need this group to grow together and show individual improvement as players?

[Chicagojk]

The Denver thing is weird. I think Calvin Booth is learning the tide can change quickly on you. Last offseason, he was the guy who could do now wrong. Sometimes it is important to remember you are never as good as the media says you are. You are not as bad as they say either.

I think at that salary and the Denver point now, paying KCP was the smart move. Although three years ago there was actually debate that Washington got the better end of the stick in the Will Barton and Monte Morris trade. It will be hard to get the offensive and defense fit they had with KCP. I think they can find suitable shooting potentially. Buddy Heild? They need some young players to step up and I think most are nothing more than potential good role players. Jokic is so good though and he gets open looks all the time. I think KCP will find out it is much easier to make those shots playing with Jokic than what he finds in Orlando.

[KillerLeft]

Legler with a new pod talking about the Mavs moves.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/th...0660953448

I found this pretty deflating, and a sort of matter-of-fact, unintentional indictment of Luka. I hope Legler is wrong about some of this, but I bet he's not.

[Smitty]

I found this pretty deflating, and a sort of matter-of-fact, unintentional indictment of Luka. I hope Legler is wrong about some of this, but I bet he's not.

I agree for the most part. I mean Luka is arguably the best player in the NBA, so I get where he’s coming from but I also remember the talk last offseason about how Kyrie wanted to play with more pace and that didn’t really fit Luka’s style and we debated it a bit here and in the end Luka and the Mavs ultimately did so. I think Kidd, Luka and Kyrie know ball better than most and I think they’ll figure out a way to play to Klay’s strengths when he’s on the floor when the matchups dictate it. I don’t think we’ll see a total overhaul of the offense like Timpf talks about. But he made a good point about Klay having 400+ shot attempts off of a screen, leading the league by a lot and Tim having ~100. So, the Mavs are capable of doing more than just high PnR or ISO stuff. Maybe they double it and get Klay 200 or so of those, using the same actions.

I was actually surprised to hear he liked Naji a bit more than DJJ, knowing how high he was on Jones post TDL and throughout the playoffs. Also, Adam was HIGH on the Grimes addition.

[LukaMVP]

Klay is similar to the signing of kidd in some way. both old and past their primes when signing with us, but rarely sidelined.