TRADE: OKC gets Caruso | CHI gets Giddey

[DanSchwartzgan]

Dan has been right all along. Dallas needs to be focused on getting better, not just executing the same plan better.

OKC just has too many options to improve their roster.  So, it was totally predictable that they would do something (and probably do more before we are done).  It’s not like we dominated them.  One or two different calls or bounces of the ball and they would have been playing Boston the last two weeks.

We need more offense without giving up too much of our defense in the process.

[audiosway]

OKC just has too many options to improve their roster.  So, it was totally predictable that they would do something (and probably do more before we are done).  It’s not like we dominated them.  One or two different calls or bounces of the ball and they would have been playing Boston the last two weeks.

We need more offense without giving up too much of our defense in the process.

I agree. That's why I want a knock down shooter like Bertans. A nice wing that's a 3&D guy like DFS would be a great addition for the bench. Dinwiddie would be an amazing 6th man. It's odd that those are former players but I just see the fit with all 3 to grow the team and round it out.

[SleepingHero]

OKC just has too many options to improve their roster.  So, it was totally predictable that they would do something (and probably do more before we are done).  It’s not like we dominated them.  One or two different calls or bounces of the ball and they would have been playing Boston the last two weeks.

We need more offense without giving up too much of our defense in the process.

The West is an arms race.

OKC is going to make a big splash. HOU rumored to be pushing all their chips in to improve. Spurs aren't going to sit by and waste more Wemby seasons. Rumors that the Kings and Jazz are going for Lavine.

Mavs have to make a splashy move to keep up.

[dirkfansince1998]

Actually like it for both teams. Bulls owner can pretend that this is a win now move but they are getting one of the most promising playmaking prospects in the league for cheap. Prior to this seasons off court allegations and the following shooting issues in the playoffs he was one of the most hyped young players in the league. Gambling on his ability/upside and the hope that he can improve his shooting isn't a bad idea. Giddey is younger than OMax. Only 21 years old.
I am sure that the Bulls will find a way to mess this up but isolated this is one of their better moves. Probably end up chasing veterans instead of trying to sell DeRozan and Vucevic. But that's a different conversation.

OKC gets a low usage glue guy and point of attack defender. Kind of player that would be a great fit on any contender. As other pointed out. Mavs opponents are collecting top tier perimeter defenders. Baring a miracle any team that wants to make the finals in the next 3-5 years is going to face Doncic or Jokic. OKC just added an important piece to fix the perimeter defense. Next move has to be a front court upgrade. They need more size.
With the amount of youth/depth OKC has for the 1-3 spots they also aren't depending on Caruso to play 70+ games. As long as he is available in the playoffs they should be fine.

[dirkfansince1998]

The West is an arms race.

OKC is going to make a big splash. HOU rumored to be pushing all their chips in to improve. Spurs aren't going to sit by and waste more Wemby seasons. Rumors that the Kings and Jazz are going for Lavine.

Mavs have to make a splashy move to keep up.

Mavs most recent trade/free agency success wasn't really about big splashs and considering that they aren't in the same conversation as the mentioned teams when it comes to available picks and capspace I think they would be better off with a copy of the last offseason/trade deadline. Searching for players that fall into the same categories as DJJ, Gafford and PJ. Wrong role, not enough playing time, tanking team...
Hit singles and doubles instead of going for another homerun move.

[Mavs2021]

It's not about how great of a defender he is, it's about the fact that he's ANOTHER defender. We just got through watching how the Boston defensive approach literally RUINED the Dallas "offense" so I'm not sure I agree with you...but...

...what I meant was that they immediately fixed the problem Dallas, specifically, exploited to beat them in that series. Giddey gone, Caruso in, so now, just like with Boston,  OKC won't have anyone on the floor who doesn't have to be guarded.

We have to guard Caruso in the play-offs?  The same Caruso that shoots 41/30/80 on low volume in 31 play-off games. You all still seeing Boston ghosts.

[mvossman]

We have to guard Caruso in the play-offs?  The same Caruso that shoots 41/30/80 on low volume in 31 play-off games. You all still seeing Boston ghosts.

You are providing small sample data from mostly 5 years ago.  If you want to play that game he shot 39% from 3 in his most recent playoffs (even smaller sample).  He is a low volume shooter but 38% for his career and 41% this last season.  We won't be able to treat him like we did Giddey.  He is also an elite perimeter defender that will give Kyrie all kinds of problems while Dort is hammering on Luka.  This is not good.

[Mavs2021]

You are providing small sample data from mostly 5 years ago.  If you want to play that game he shot 39% from 3 in his most recent playoffs (even smaller sample).  He is a low volume shooter but 38% for his career and 41% this last season.  We won't be able to treat him like we did Giddey.

Of course we can? His 3pt percentage from season to season alters between 30%, 48%, 33%, 40%, 33%, 36%. So last year´s 41% is the first time his 3pt percentage did not go down again.

So when the play-in arrived did the Hawks and Heat gave a flying f*** about his 41% shooting? Nope.

He scored six points on 2-3 shooting in 17 minutes in the win against the Hawks while the rest of the Bulls starters scored 107 points.

What about the Heat loss? 2-8 shooting, team worst -33. You all must know better than Spoelstra.

I guarantee you if we play the Thunder again, the Mavs will leave him open, till he proves that he´s willing and capable to hit these threes regularly.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

You can’t have enough perimeter defenders. I don’t think any GMs build their team looking at the 5 man lineup. They look at the 8 man playoff rotation. Alex Caruso in your top 8 is a lot better player than Josh Gree, THJ, and Maxi Kleber. OKC just got a lot better.

[mvossman]

Of course we can? His 3pt percentage from season to season alters between 30%, 48%, 33%, 40%, 33%, 36%. So last year´s 41% is the first time his 3pt percentage did not go down again.

So when the play-in arrived did the Hawks and Heat gave a flying f*** about his 41% shooting? Nope.

He scored six points on 2-3 shooting in 17 minutes in the win against the Hawks while the rest of the Bulls starters scored 107 points.

What about the Heat loss? 2-8 shooting, team worst -33. You all must know better than Spoelstra.

I guarantee you if we play the Thunder again, the Mavs will leave him open, till he proves that he´s willing and capable to hit these threes regularly.

I questioned your sample size, so your coming back with a single game sample?

Boston 5 out was a problem for us, but the bigger issue was their stifling defense.  OKC just got a big step closer to that.

[KillerLeft]

Caruso isn't a devastating shooter, but he's not on the "ignore him" level Giddey was in this year's 2nd round. And, he's better on offense in every way that doesn't include passing. Better at creating shots for himself, better putting pressure on the rim in transition, as a cutter, etc. Obviously, the defensive angle everyone mentions is a huge plus. Top that off with the old "this dude is a veteran winner who has won at this level" reasoning, which is more than valid in this case, and it's a stand-up triple, especially considering the fact (still can't believe it) that no draft capital changed hands.

[SleepingHero]

TheDunkCentral
The Chicago Bulls reportedly requested four unprotected picks in exchange for Alex Caruso during previous trade negotiations, per
@JakeLFischer


“The Bulls engaged several teams over the past 18 months that were willing to sacrifice first-round draft capital for Caruso, sources said, while Chicago characteristically pushed for unprotected picks and as many as four firsts in some of those conversations. Chicago also refused to include Caruso in deals that would have offloaded Zach LaVine, sources said.”



4 picks and they went with Giddey. Pretty surprising.

[KillerLeft]

TheDunkCentral
The Chicago Bulls reportedly requested four unprotected picks in exchange for Alex Caruso during previous trade negotiations, per
@JakeLFischer


“The Bulls engaged several teams over the past 18 months that were willing to sacrifice first-round draft capital for Caruso, sources said, while Chicago characteristically pushed for unprotected picks and as many as four firsts in some of those conversations. Chicago also refused to include Caruso in deals that would have offloaded Zach LaVine, sources said.”



4 picks and they went with Giddey. Pretty surprising.

I know. It’s crazy. Man, I don’t agree with them, but I think they really believe that losing Lonzo Ball is what ruined their team, and that Josh Giddey is going to do for them what Lonzo did. I don’t think they wanted to sell Caruso so much as they wanted to add Josh Giddey.

[Mavs2021]

I questioned your sample size, so your coming back with a single game sample?

Boston 5 out was a problem for us, but the bigger issue was their stifling defense.  OKC just got a big step closer to that.

The guy is 30 years old and has taken 1000 threes in his life and one third was last season. There not being a sample size is the clue. THJ took 634 this season alone. I gave you an example of what happened during the play-in tournaments. Teams ignored him, cause he has the same confidence in his own offense as Josh Green does. I only talked about the offensive end. We won´t change our gameplan for him. We´ll let SGA earn his mid-range points, ignore Caruso and defend everybody else.

[mvossman]

TheDunkCentral
The Chicago Bulls reportedly requested four unprotected picks in exchange for Alex Caruso during previous trade negotiations, per
@JakeLFischer


“The Bulls engaged several teams over the past 18 months that were willing to sacrifice first-round draft capital for Caruso, sources said, while Chicago characteristically pushed for unprotected picks and as many as four firsts in some of those conversations. Chicago also refused to include Caruso in deals that would have offloaded Zach LaVine, sources said.”



4 picks and they went with Giddey. Pretty surprising.

Count me skeptical that somebody was going to pay 4 firsts for Caruso.  Hell one of the only teams that can even do that just traded no picks for him.  It was rumored that Nets turned down multiple firsts for Dorian as well.  I think some of these rumored offers get quite a bit exaggerated at times.

[KillerLeft]

Count me skeptical that somebody was going to pay 4 firsts for Caruso.  Hell one of the only teams that can even do that just traded no picks for him.  It was rumored that Nets turned down multiple firsts for Dorian as well.  I think some of these rumored offers get quite a bit exaggerated at times.

I'm sure that's true about rumors being exaggerated,, but Caruso also wasn't traded, so nobody DID pay 4 firsts for him, whether the rumors are true or not. And, it COULD be true that 4 firsts is what it would've taken to convince Chicago to sell him at the time. 

Honestly, I don't think they sold him, I really don't. I think they BOUGHT Giddey, and Caruso was the price they had to pay. It just doesn't feel like that to US, because Caruso is a player we talk about often for the Mavs (and because we just watched Giddey be a total albatross for OKC in a playoff series against our team). From the Bulls' perspective, they just got a 21 year old PG/offensive initiator (in other words, the most important player on the team) to replace Lonzo Ball. I bet they actually believe this is a quick path to being good.

[Chicagojk]

Let me go back to my original thoughts of this potentially turning into a good deal for Chicago. There is some risk there though. On the other hand, I think this is a great move by OKC. I will be interested to see what else they do this summer.

[mvossman]

I'm sure that's true about rumors being exaggerated,, but Caruso also wasn't traded, so nobody DID pay 4 firsts for him, whether the rumors are true or not. And, it COULD be true that 4 firsts is what it would've taken to convince Chicago to sell him at the time. 

Honestly, I don't think they sold him, I really don't. I think they BOUGHT Giddey, and Caruso was the price they had to pay. It just doesn't feel like that to US, because Caruso is a player we talk about often for the Mavs (and because we just watched Giddey be a total albatross for OKC in a playoff series against our team). From the Bulls' perspective, they just got a 21 year old PG/offensive initiator (in other words, the most important player on the team) to replace Lonzo Ball. I bet they actually believe this is a quick path to being good.

I don't hate the trade for Chicago, especially if the directive is to get better instead of complete tear down (A directive I do question).  My point was simply that I don't think the opportunity cost was as high as being reported.  My guess is they could have gotten two crappy firsts, or a first and a young player (like Green + 25) and Giddey makes sense compared to that.  Honestly the only team this trade sucks for is Dallas.

[KillerLeft]

I don't hate the trade for Chicago, especially if the directive is to get better instead of complete tear down (A directive I do question).  My point was simply that I don't think the opportunity cost was as high as being reported.  My guess is they could have gotten two crappy firsts, or a first and a young player (like Green + 25) and Giddey makes sense compared to that.  Honestly the only team this trade sucks for is Dallas.

Right. I understood your point. 

MY point is that if Chicago could've gotten two crappy firsts but didn't sell Caruso for that, then maybe the "opportunity cost" for Dallas might actually have been as high as we feared. It's not like Dallas has a potential Lonzo Ball replacement lying around to offer, know what I mean?

In other words, the request for 4 firsts might have been true, but just a way of saying "not for sale," in which case, yes, anyone not offering Josh Giddey really might have had to pay DEARLY for Caruso. Every team's agenda is different.