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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 MAVS NEWS: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=677)
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RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - Hypermav - 06-09-2021
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/2GjTdNHnmk2IM/giphy.gif)
Mavs withdrawal symptoms starting...
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - ClutchDirk - 06-09-2021
(06-09-2021, 05:06 PM)Hypermav Wrote:
Mavs withdrawal symptoms starting...
All we have now is pulling the handle on the Trade Machine and seeing if we get 3 Stars in a row...
https://media.giphy.com/media/hQuRzXrh3APjMCjiNA/giphy.gif
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - Mavs2021 - 06-10-2021
![[Image: 07hujoanxu371.jpg?width=640&height=373&c...4f41d1f18e]](https://preview.redd.it/07hujoanxu371.jpg?width=640&height=373&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a7977e89770c804bc0077b3598a9d24f41d1f18e)
Goddamn. How can anyone justify paying THJ more than Lou Williams money with that kind of defensive impact.They had to widen the graphic just to get him into the picture. I said it before, a ruthless team, would offer him MLE money, and tell him to prove there are teams willing to go far and beyond, and we make a S&T. Offering him 14/year is already taking care of THJ, but I´m sure lazy Donnie will just throw 80/4 at him.
![[Image: 0sj01236m2371.jpg?width=640&height=800&c...2a0c5d18a9]](https://preview.redd.it/0sj01236m2371.jpg?width=640&height=800&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4d800217017da62cfde32aadf3b5732a0c5d18a9)
Surely that can´t be real, even if it matches the eyetest.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - dirkfansince1998 - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 12:02 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Goddamn. How can anyone justify paying THJ more than Lou Williams money with that kind of defensive impact.
Just need to understand what you are looking at. TPA is BPM adjusted for possessions played. Meaning that it is based on boxscore stats. THJ is not known for his defensive boxscore production. He rarely gets steals or blocks and is not a volume rebounder. Reverse is true for most bigs (even KP and Boban). That´s how a guy like Drummond ends up as the league leader in DBPM.
Thankfully most people realize that defense is more than just boxscore numbers and even though I wouldn´t say that THJ is a good defender (personally I think he is solid on ball. Pretty bad off ball) he finds ways to contribute.
Even better...We have more and more tracking data that tells us what happened on the floor. THJ drew 3 charges (out of 4 for the Mavs) and actually had more success against Kawhi than DFS or Maxi (Kawhi against DFS 65.4% FG, Maxi 61.1% FG, THJ 52.9% FG, Luka 43.8% FG).
Modern media, twitter and co love to use fancy all in one stats. They can be useful if people know what they are looking at. Can also be misleading. Especially in a small sample size. Just looking at +/- or on/off data I could make the case that DFS, THJ and Luka carried the team all by themself with a little help from Powell. That might actually be closer to the truth but isn´t telling the full story.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - HAguiar95 - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 12:02 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Goddamn. How can anyone justify paying THJ more than Lou Williams money with that kind of defensive impact.They had to widen the graphic just to get him into the picture. I said it before, a ruthless team, would offer him MLE money, and tell him to prove there are teams willing to go far and beyond, and we make a S&T. Offering him 14/year is already taking care of THJ, but I´m sure lazy Donnie will just throw 80/4 at him.
People might remember him from games 1 and 2 where he was hot, but his numbers were as pedestrian as last season's series. Played 1 game more this year, 3.5 minutes more, shot worse from the field, scored less, assisted less, rebounded less, turned the ball more. The only "improvement" from last season were his 3's (shot 3 more, made 4 more) and his FT (shot 6 more, made 75%, still not great).
To defend him a little, clearly not his role. He should be a microwave from the bench, like was for most of the season. Can't play him more than 25-30 mpg and expect to win in all. Not sure why RC didn't go back to J-Rich starting for at least one game (our most used lineup with a +13 pt diferential). J-Rich playing 13mpg while Timothy played 37mpg is a tragedy. One that RC should be held accountable for.
The buzz is he will get paid 15-20M per year. Hopefully not by us.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - StepBackJay - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 07:03 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: The buzz is he will get paid 15-20M per year. Hopefully not by us.
I mean it seems like a lock that he will get that and by the Mavs. I think it comes down to that its hard to find high volume 3 point shooters that can hit at 40% and THJ is that. If he is 15/yr I am totally fine with that bc that's the going rate for shooters. If Its closer to 20 I am going to be really frustrated bc THJ is not a well-rounded player.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - omahen - 06-10-2021
THJ was scoring 17 ppg on 40 % from three. He was so good that it forced Clippers to play one of their best defenders on him. Sadly Mavs don't have personel to take advantage of that. Agree he doesn't do much else. Players in with his skill set and production are Hield (20+ per year), Harris (18 per year), Bertans (16 per year) and Clarkson at 12 per year. Obviously Utah got an excellent contract. I agree that keeping KP and THJ severly reduces options to improve the team, but that doesn't mean THJ is worth less than 15 mil on the market. Deservedly so.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - Branduil - 06-10-2021
Harris is severely underpaid, he's on another level compared to the other guys (and not as bad on defense).
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - HAguiar95 - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 07:30 AM)omahen Wrote: THJ was scoring 17 ppg on 40 % from three. He was so good that it forced Clippers to play one of their best defenders on him. Sadly Mavs don't have personel to take advantage of that. Agree he doesn't do much else. Players in with his skill set and production are Hield (20+ per year), Harris (18 per year), Bertans (16 per year) and Clarkson at 12 per year. Obviously Utah got an excellent contract. I agree that keeping KP and THJ severly reduces options to improve the team, but that doesn't mean THJ is worth less than 15 mil on the market. Deservedly so.
I'm sure every WAS/SAC fan and FO would love to get rid of Bertans/Hield for a bag of chips, I really don't want that happening to us after we give him that kind of deal.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - ClutchDirk - 06-10-2021
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31600088/boston-celtics-interview-nba-assistants-coaching-search-including-la-clippers-chauncey-billups-sources-say
List includes Mosley...
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - vfromlmf - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 07:30 AM)omahen Wrote: Players in with his skill set and production are Hield (20+ per year), Harris (18 per year), Bertans (16 per year) and Clarkson at 12 per year.
And Seth Curry at $7.8 million
2021 postseason 30 MPG - .55 FG% - .46 3P% - 17.3 PTS
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - SkenfromLMF - 06-10-2021
How much does loyalty reward??? IF we could sign THJ for $8 million on a 2 yr PO deal, would you be willing to pay him above market next year as a reward for helping generate cap space this year??? (Just don't put it in writing Joe)
I don't know that it makes much sense unless JRich opts out and leaves, or a trade reduces payroll in the meantime. - but on the surface I would like the MBT to at least pursue this ability to generate space with the knowledge it will cost extra for the subsequent 3 years.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - ItsGoTime - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 09:03 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: I'm sure every WAS/SAC fan and FO would love to get rid of Bertans/Hield for a bag of chips, I really don't want that happening to us after we give him that kind of deal.This has been my thought about all these “market value” arguments. What good does it do your team to sign a guy to a “market value” deal if it immediately becomes a negative value?
Also, I’m pretty tired of bidding against ourselves on players. Let him go find a deal another team is willing to pay him, then we can determine if we want to match that. I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t find the deals people are saying his market value is at. All it takes is 1 team, just not a lot of teams out there with money that have a need for his skillset.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - KillerLeft - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 10:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: This has been my thought about all these “market value” arguments. What good does it do your team to sign a guy to a “market value” deal if it immediately becomes a negative value?
Totally agree with your logic here about the big picture of "market value." Disagree that THJ will be a negative value on his next contract. Strongly. I guess I should reserve the right to change my mind once we see what he gets paid, but I don't think he's a negative at $20 million, myself. I OF COURSE hope they get him for less.
(06-10-2021, 10:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Also, I’m pretty tired of bidding against ourselves on players.
WAY agree here, and I hope the Mavs get a realistic idea of what offers he gets and don't just pull a number out of thin air.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - ItsGoTime - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 10:12 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Totally agree with your logic here about the big picture of "market value." Disagree that THJ will be a negative value on his next contract. Strongly. I guess I should reserve the right to change my mind once we see what he gets paid, but I don't think he's a negative at $20 million, myself. I OF COURSE hope they get him for less.Hield is quite literally the same player. The Kings don’t want him. Neither do the teams that they shopped him to.
WAY agree here, and I hope the Mavs get a realistic idea of what offers he gets and don't just pull a number out of thin air.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - vfromlmf - 06-10-2021
Isn't THJ just this team's version of JET?
Tim is taller and better defensively; Terry had a better handle.
Otherwise they're essentially the same player, no?
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - KillerLeft - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 10:22 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Hield is quite literally the same player.
Disagree. They are similar types of players, and play VERY similar roles, but I think they are different people who offer different things.
I wouldn't want to be in the Kings' position with either of them. In the Mavs' position, I would.
I don't believe Hield is anywhere near untradable. And, I think he would be more tradable than he is if he was a better person and teammate. And, I think Hardaway is more of a two-way player than you do. I agree with @"dirkfansince1998"...he's not a defensive star AT ALL, but his on-ball defense is laughably underrated here.
Hardaway certainly has his limits, but I'd put him in the top 3-4, easily, of reasons this current Mavs team has the toehold it does on the Western Conference playoff scene (low on that ladder as it might be, so far). I think if you were to remove one of those 3-4 players (without adding like Kawhi Leonard or someone on a crazy level like that) we'd be surprised at how drastically the team changed. Hell, I legitimately think losing Barea negatively impacted team culture this season, and he wasn't even playing.
There IS a price where it doesn't make sense to bring Hardaway back, FOR SURE. But, what is ALSO true is the he just might be worth more to the Mavs than he is to some other teams. I agree with your point regarding "bidding against themselves" and I agree that the Mavs should be a little more business savvy with some of these negotiations. But I CAN'T agree with the mindset that re-signing THJ ends up looking like a mistake, no matter what.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - Mapka - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 10:22 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Hield is quite literally the same player. The Kings don’t want him. Neither do the teams that they shopped him to.
Hield the player isn't the problem. That’s Buddy the person.
Just look how both of them handled getting a bench position and how being a free agent to be.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - ItsGoTime - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 10:58 AM)Mapka Wrote: Hield the player isn't the problem. That’s Buddy the person.It’s not Hield’s attitude that got the Kings no offers when they tried to shop him. Also, are we once again talking about paying a player for their personality and lockerroom presence? Man, I shutter to think what some of you guys pay for cars and things that require negotiation.
Just look how both of them handled getting a bench position and how being a free agent to be.
RE: MAVS NEWS: DAL confident in ability to resign THJ this summer - KillerLeft - 06-10-2021
(06-10-2021, 11:11 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: It’s not Hield’s attitude that got the Kings no offers when they tried to shop him. Also, are we once again talking about paying a player for their personality and lockerroom presence? Man, I shutter to think what some of you guys pay for cars and things that require negotiation.
I strongly feel like the way these guys interact with teammates, work with their organizations and commit to team goals are a HUGE part of how their value is perceived around the league. I think your first sentence is very likely EXTREMELY misguided.
And, pointing out the positives of being a good teammate, employee, person, team-culture guy isn't the same as claiming it's ok to overpay for that.
A person is not a car. A person's attitude about what goals you're trying to accomplish, as well as how effectively they can work with others to accomplish them, play a large part in determining how successful they/you will be. A car is a inanimate piece of machinery that does only what it was designed to do.