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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 AROUND the NBA: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=622)
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RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - HanspardsShowerVoice - 12-16-2020
You can improve a team into Championship level squad with some shrewd high upside moves without pushing all of your chips into the table. The Mavs did exactly that when they added Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler. We've got 1 mega star and 1 potential star and a lot of depth. You can go a really, really, really long way with just that. We don't have to make a desperation Russel Westbrook or Jrue Holliday trade. But some people here are talking about going all in and betting the farm on gimpy legged Johnathan Isaac who is still rail thin and never had a PER above 17 and essentially locking in all future roster flexibility on that. That pretty much bakes the cake as to what this roster looks like for the next 3-4 years, for better or worse. These people have a lot more optimism for Isaac than I do. Good poker players know you don't have to play every hand, you just have to wait for the right one.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:55 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: Good poker players know you don't have to play every hand, you just have to wait for the right one.
Yeah, until your star player tells you to play next hand no matter how bad cards you have...
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - KillerLeft - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:08 PM)omahen Wrote: Yeah, until your star player tells you to play next hand no matter how bad cards you have...
Nobody wants to be in that situation. We all agree about that.
I think what some people argue is that making those desperate moves NOW doesn't solve those problems in the future, and in fact, might compound them.
No guarantees that they'll be successful, but I'm still really happy that the Mavs are trying to make GOOD moves. I think you could argue that everything they're doing (and have been doing) is specifically because they understand how lucky they got with Luka, and they're trying to AVOID being between a rock and a hard place when the time comes.
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing.
Case in point: Atlanta.
They just had a great off-season, right? They got tons of media attention, and were "successful" in that they added a lot of talent to their roster. They might even make the playoffs, which was (rightfully) their immediate goal.
But, isn't it possible that they just wrote a check they won't be able to cash when Young's extension runs out? That their commitments will slow them down over the next few seasons, setting them back in the long run?
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Case in point: Atlanta.
They just had a great off-season, right? They got tons of media attention, and were "successful" in that they added a lot of talent to their roster. They might even make the playoffs, which was (rightfully) their immediate goal.
But, isn't it possible that they just wrote a check they won't be able to cash when Young's extension runs out? That their commitments will slow them down over the next few seasons, setting them back in the long run?
I think Atlanta overpaid all their free agents with the exception of Dunn. 60 mil to Gallo, 70 mil to Bogi and 15 mil to "I have been a vet min for last three seasons" Rondo are huge. On the other hand - what else could they do with their cap space? They still have plenty of picks and young players to upgrade those contracts if trade opportunity comes. Unless they give Collins the max they will be below the cap next season. While their roster is certainly not at contender level, they have positioned themselves for a trade that would bring them over the hump. So I guess, their offseason will be judged by the next move.
Like Mavs turning DeClown and Matthews contracts into KP.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - khaled1987 - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:55 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: The Mavs did exactly that when they added Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler. We've got 1 mega star and 1 potential star and a lot of depth. You can go a really, really, really long way with just that. We don't have to make a desperation Russel Westbrook or Jrue Holliday trade.
That was a decade ago, different times in the NBA atm.
Only team to do something close to that was Raptors, and even then you could argue that Siakam and Lowry are actually stars.
(12-16-2020, 01:36 PM)omahen Wrote: Lakers went all in for Davis and it worked. Houston went all in for Westbrook and a while later for Covington and it didn't work. Clippers went all in for George and it didn't work. Utah paid kings ransom for Conley and it wasn't enough. Only one can win each year. So you should prepare yourself that next Mavs move to bring this roster to serious contention status will be either an overpaid player or they will pay a kings ransom, because organic growth has its limitations.
Mavs has already paid kings ransom twice to get Luka and KP.
They need to reload their assets to be able to do that again.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - Kammrath - 12-16-2020
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1339285567503261697
![[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=4570350]](https://media1.tenor.com/images/e06b8de663f6d65e57fb334edcd12df8/tenor.gif?itemid=4570350)
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - KillerLeft - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:22 PM)omahen Wrote: I think Atlanta overpaid all their free agents with the exception of Dunn. 60 mil to Gallo, 70 mil to Bogi and 15 mil to "I have been a vet min for last three seasons" Rondo are huge.
Totally agree.
My take on free agency:
1) If you can get a max player (who IS a max player) to sign, AWESOME.
2) If you can get a STEAL on a player at any level (like Burke this year, for example), GREAT! 99% of the time, those "value" signings are going to be on a very small scale...Burke, DFS, Iwundu, etc.
3) If you're a contender (a true contender) you can probably turn your MLE into at least one very helpful piece, though not always a starter.
Anything other than the above is almost always going to be a mistake, imo. For that reason, as the field of targets I would feel comfortable offering the MAX next summer shrinks, my interest in translating those expiring contracts into the best possible targets at the trade deadline increases.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - Kammrath - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: My take on free agency:
1) If you can get a max player (who IS a max player) to sign, AWESOME.
2) If you can get a STEAL on a player at any level (like Burke this year, for example), GREAT! 99% of the time, those "value" signings are going to be on a very small scale...Burke, DFS, Iwundu, etc.
3) If you're a contender (a true contender) you can probably turn your MLE into at least one very helpful piece, though not always a starter.
Anything other than the above is almost always going to be a mistake, imo. For that reason, as the field of targets I would feel comfortable offering the MAX next summer shrinks, my interest in translating those expiring contracts into the best possible targets at the trade deadline increases.
We are lock and step on this. Totally agree.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - HanspardsShowerVoice - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 02:27 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: That was a decade ago, different times in the NBA atm.
Only team to do something close to that was Raptors, and even then you could argue that Siakam and Lowry are actually stars.
Not really all that different. Mavs went through Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Bynum Lakers, then went through KD/Westbrook/Harden OKC and then went through LeBron/Wade/Bosh Heat. And the league still had Duncan/Parker/Ginobli Spurs and Conley/Gasol/Randolph Grizzlies just in the West.
And Lowry only has 1 3rd Team All NBA selection on his career, so I don't consider him Stars. Siakam had his "breakout" year last year as 3rd team All NBA but wasnt anywhere close to All NBA in 2019.
Ever since the demise of Golden State and KD's exodus, this isnt a 3 star team league anymore. It's 2 Stars. Right now the Lakers have the advantage because they have the best 2 stars. But one of their stars is about to be 36 and another has had a long history of nagging injuries, so we're one pulled groin strain from everything being wide open. The Mavs don't have to make desperation moves to compete now or in the future.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - ClutchDirk - 12-16-2020
https://media.giphy.com/media/y6dyjA5vmkUgw/giphy.gif
Harden training in Vegas...
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - Kammrath - 12-16-2020
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1339310741543763968
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - SleepingHero - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 03:49 PM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1339310741543763968
Welp that was quick.
I had an avulsion fracture of my hip once. Not fun. Basically a ligament tears and the force of the tear is enough to take a piece of bone with it. Normally requires surgery unless the break is really minor and can heal on its own.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - michaeltex - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 01:36 PM)omahen Wrote: Since I trully believe Mavs need only one more piece, I don't really care how much (future) assets it costs.Could JRich possibly be this piece? The, very limited, early returns are encouraging, but I'm hopeful. Looking forward to MIN and seeing how this plays once the games count.
TBH, none of the current names being tossed around excite me much, but someone we don't know now will decide he's fed up and will want out. So maybe the opportunity will come. Nobody was expecting KP until it happened.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - omahen - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 05:04 PM)michaeltex Wrote: Could JRich possibly be this piece?
JRich is piece of the puzzle, but I think they need one more.
(12-16-2020, 04:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Normally requires surgery unless the break is really minor and can heal on its own.
Doesn't look very tragic...
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1339313326304669698
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - burekemde - 12-16-2020
This is the bottom line. Luka and KP are great, but they are no LeBron and Davis. Or Kobe and Shaq. They might become, but this will take quiet a few seasons.
Before that day comes (I believe it will): Mavs need a third star. With the third star, Dallas can and might win the championship this season. Richardson is a very nice piece and our third best player, but not a weapon that wins games consistently and especially in playoffs.
Mavs have the superstar, and the star, and the bench and the depth. Need that third star.
Something worth mentioning, is that by contending sooner rather than later with the third star, this will help Luka and KP to get to that day faster. They need to get closer to the finals.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - StepBackJay - 12-16-2020
Simmons is a good player and all but if you get Harden for Simmons that's a deal you pull the trigger on. I think maybe a pick or two is okay. Harden averaged over 30 points a game for 3 seasons, it's insane. He would take that team to a whole other level. The Sixers may be due for another blow up in a couple of years anyway so Harden would really raise their ceiling. They have good players but they are like a 6th seed to me. Nothing particularly special.
You have the Bucks, Celtics, Heat and I would add the Nets are going to be near the top. Raptors were really good last year still. Pacers are a really solid team. 76ers as constituted are a lower rung playoff team in the East. Harden would make them probably a 4th seed with a much higher ceiling.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - SleepingHero - 12-16-2020
(12-16-2020, 05:06 PM)omahen Wrote: Doesn't look very tragic...
Oh interesting. I don't have any experience with an avulsion fracture on the pinkie. Must be a relatively minor one and he can play on it.
Mine was on my hip and was on crutches for 8 weeks.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - dirkfansince1998 - 12-16-2020
Hayward injury history is really strange. It´s not like he has a weak spot that is causing him problems. Basically a number of seemingly unrelated freak accidents.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - Kammrath - 12-16-2020
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1339345081732620289
RE: AROUND the NBA: Harden pushing to be traded, is he the next domino to fall? - khaled1987 - 12-16-2020
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point
Feels that the media is starting to change narrative a bit on players forced movement tbh.
Media has been widely against Harden when he asked out, didn't make any push for Giannis to (insert a team) like they usually does.