(07-05-2021, 12:53 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1412101936262922245

(07-05-2021, 01:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Serious question, not intended with any snark, whatsoever: 

If KP is not a star, which by definition means that he is not great at creating offense for himself or others, and he has massive "defensive issues," then what makes you so confident he's a "great starter?"

It's not even that I disagree with this take. In order to disagree I'd have to understand where this take is coming from. I just can't see it at all, and I'm starting to feel like I'm crazy or something.

(07-05-2021, 01:46 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: 1. How do you know they are crappy? Have the Knicks selected somebody yet?
2. You also ignore the fact that DSJ + two first round picks could have yielded a different player in a different trade. I believe the Cavs paid a protected 1st and a 2nd for Jarrett Allen and Taurean Prince. So I´d argue that Allen, Prince, a retained 2023 Mavs 1st round pick, full future pick trade flexibility and $15M in  additional capspace could be considered a better position already.

(07-05-2021, 04:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: He's still a top 50 player IMO even with defensive issues. That doesn't factor in any value with his contract. 

(07-05-2021, 04:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I respect and now understand that you have the opinion above, and it helps answer my question, thanks. 

I think KP still has use (even in the most pessimistic view of his remaining potential) as a stretch-5, but not on his current contract. And, it absolutely shocks me that anyone would have him in their top-50 right now. But, opinions vary.

(07-05-2021, 04:50 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: KP is 20ppg efficient scorer. That's a very solid offensive player. Again it's not a common thing to do and because of his stretch ability as a center it makes that even more valuable. I mean how many centers are able to stretch the floor like that?

(07-05-2021, 05:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: 1) Valuable, and rarely so, as a stretch center? YES, though that value is offset more than somewhat by his suddenly becoming one of the least playable "starting" centers in the league on defense.

*Due to point #1, I feel it's irresponsible and fairly pointless to remove contract value from the conversation, because his contract takes the option of making him a 3rd big (or 2nd - whichever is the team's first big off the bench), which is probably where he'd be best used, completely off of the table. 

2) "efficient scorer"...not buying that, sorry. The numbers might show that he's an efficient finisher of plays that other people create for him, and that's great, but it's not who the Mavs traded for, extended, and maybe more importantly, it's not how the player sees himself. We've seen what happens when the Mavs try to run the offense through him - it dies. We've seen what happens when a team (NY) commits to that as a plan - they lose.

(07-05-2021, 06:46 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: I made a statement about the quality of player he is overall without any value attached.

(07-05-2021, 07:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Cool, so even taking contract out of it, I disagree. I don't think he's a "damn good starter"...at all. I respect your opinion and all, and I can tell you're bringing a considered judgement to the conversation. If you want to end the conversation, that's fine.

(07-05-2021, 07:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Cool, so even taking contract out of it, I disagree. I don't think he's a "damn good starter"...at all. I respect your opinion and all, and I can tell you're bringing a considered judgement to the conversation. If you want to end the conversation, that's fine.

(07-05-2021, 08:43 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think the truth lies somewhere between you two.  If the defensive drop off is a one year thing due to coming back from injury mid season and he gets back to his old defensive self, then I think he is easily top 50.  A quality rim protector that can give you 20 and 10 efficiently while potentially pulling centers out of the paint is very rare and valuable.  If the defensive drop off is permanent, then he is still a quality starter due to his offense (maybe top 100 player) but nowhere near that contract and somebody that needs to be moved if at all possible.

(07-05-2021, 04:50 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Well we aren't talking about value based on his contract. That's a completely different argument. 

KP is 20ppg efficient scorer. That's a very solid offensive player. Again it's not a common thing to do and because of his stretch ability as a center it makes that even more valuable. I mean how many centers are able to stretch the floor like that?

(07-05-2021, 08:28 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Really? Both teams man handled us during the year.

(07-05-2021, 08:44 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Are we totally dismissing Utah who they would have played next?  Then Phoenix.

(07-05-2021, 01:57 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: “So, the Jazz want him back, and that’s without question, sources say. The question is, does Conley want to come back to Utah? His on-the-record comment after Utah’s loss to Los Angeles was basically we’ll see. He’s going to have multiple suitors on the open market. And he’s going to have teams willing to pay him.
What will help Utah is that it won’t be a repeater tax team this coming season. What also will help is that the Jazz have Conley’s Bird Rights, which gives them the chance to beat out other offers. It appears at the very least that’s what Utah’s going to have to do. There won’t be a hometown discount. It stands to reason that Conley can safely command anywhere from $15-20 million for his next contract.
Conley wants to win a championship, so the question he has to answer is whether there’s another team that can reasonably secure him that can put him in a better spot to win a title than the one he’s currently in. The Jazz with Conley and Mitchell and Gobert will have every chance to compete at the highest level next season. So, is there a situation that gives Conley an even better chance than that? It would need to be a spot that would make him a prohibitive favorite for a title, and not just a place where he can reasonably compete for a title.”

(07-06-2021, 12:48 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: John Hollinger, who was the former GM of the Grizzlies while Conley was still there had a very interesting comment regarding Conley and his upcoming free agency. 

"Dallas is a team to watch" regarding Conley's free agency. Given that Utah is going to go into HEAVY tax (they're team salary is at 130mm before Conley's next contract), I think Conley is prime for plucking.

Perhaps Utah finds THJ an interesting replacement. Or maybe a package of Kleber+THJ for Clarkson+Conley?   

(07-06-2021, 01:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: You're not following Hollinger's point. He's saying the Jazz don't have the financial will to pay another big chunk (to Conley) on top of what you cite they are already committed (130M). Replacing "Conley" with "THJ" on a 20M salary doesn't solve that for Utah. (And they can't take a sign-and-trade player if their payroll exceeds about 142M, another barrier to any interest in THJ).

If you want Conley, and he wants you, it's a cap room deal, almost certainly.