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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 AROUND the NBA: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=622)
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RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - dynamicalVoid - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 02:11 PM)omahen Wrote: Interesting. Greatly overpaid, doesn't play defense. But might be interesting as a scoring punch of the bench.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373710053082030082
Few times I have watched him he has been a chucker. Worse shot selection than the ones THJ gets dogged on for.
His stats probably paint a different picture. Luka providing open looks might turn him into Steph Curry.
His supposedly below average defense, contract and bad shots when I have seen him play make me nervous about this guy.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - omahen - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 02:32 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Few times I have watched him he has been a chucker. Worse shot selection than the ones THJ gets dogged on for.
His stats probably paint a different picture. Luka providing open looks might turn him into Steph Curry.
His supposedly below average defense, contract and bad shots when I have seen him play make me nervous about this guy.
Yeah, he is taking incredibly difficult shots. But he is shooting them with high accuracy. Over 40 % last season, 37 and something % this season. He would certainly help in the spreading the floor department. Sometimes it is enough that a player represents a danger from very far and it makes life easier for the rest. Sort of what KP does. He doesn't need to take those difficult shots.
But after thinking more about it - do we even have enough shots to go around for another 10+shots per game guy? I am not sure
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - Kammrath - 03-21-2021
RE: Bertans
I am so IN on Bertans. Think he would be a massive addition to this team and would add a pure shooter unlike anyone else on the team IMO.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - KillerLeft - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 03:10 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I am so IN on Bertans. Think he would be a massive addition to this team and would add a pure shooter unlike anyone else on the team IMO.
I'm surprised to read this, given your focus on the defensive end. Cutting out WCS/Powell minutes in favor of Bertans would mean a significant step back in that area, no?
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - Kammrath - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 03:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm surprised to read this, given your focus on the defensive end. Cutting out WCS/Powell minutes in favor of Bertans would mean a significant step back in that area, no?
Dude is a on/off beast. Led his team in on/off for the last three years (2 in WAS and 1 in SAS)....an incredibly impressive feat. He has been a huge offensive positive and basically a defensive neutral. He impacts team winning VERY positively overall. Give me guys like that all day. I want a "winning" player more than anything else.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - KillerLeft - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 03:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Dude is a on/off beast. Led his team in on/off for the last three years (2 in WAS and 1 in SAS)....an incredibly impressive feat. He has been a huge offensive positive and basically a defensive neutral. He impacts team winning VERY positively overall. Give me guys like that all day. I want a "winning" player more than anything else.
Well, I was tempted to point out how Kleber is actually shooting better this season as a way to say "we already have a better version of that player here" but when I looked more closely, Bertans actually puts up twice as many shots as Kleber. His ability to get shots off the catch is actually really similar to THJ this year, which is significant, especially at that size. Kleber's release is getting faster, but he's nowhere near on that level yet, I don't think, and he probably never will be.
I don't hate it. The contract gives me pause, but then again, shooters get paid.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - omahen - 03-21-2021
Fun fact: Bertans also played in Olimpija Ljubljana in 2010-2011, team where Docic started in Slovenia. Didn't play a lot and had injury problems all the time. Doncic was still in Slovenia at the time, being a 12 year old kid. So likely they met.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - sefant - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 03:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Dude is a on/off beast. Led his team in on/off for the last three years (2 in WAS and 1 in SAS)....an incredibly impressive feat. He has been a huge offensive positive and basically a defensive neutral. He impacts team winning VERY positively overall. Give me guys like that all day. I want a "winning" player more than anything else.
He is a beast (+6.1), but Willie is an on/off god and doubles up Jokic
Who is the real MVP?
WCS +9
Jokic +4
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 03-21-2021
love Bertans
dude has unlimited range
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - omahen - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 03:58 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: love Bertans
dude has unlimited range
Must be something in those Baltic waters
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - DanSchwartzgan - 03-21-2021
Bertans name came up this week in a conversation between Fred Katz and John Hollinger. Dallas doesn’t end up with him, but Dallas players end up in Washington...which gives you a sense of what the cost might be if we were interested.
Dwight Powell and Josh Green
![[Image: Bertans-Trade.png]](https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2021/03/17152531/Bertans-Trade.png)
The Wizards aren’t looking to part with Davis Bertans after giving him a five-year contract this past offseason. This is the most unrealistic deal we’ll discuss. But let’s pretend they’re searching for ways to find Bertans a new home. Would something like this make sense?He goes to a team that could enhance his shooting and provide enough defensive reinforcements to mask his weaknesses. If the 76ers feel he’s a missing piece, they might not care as much about a gaudy salary. The Wizards get back a center who isn’t playing a ton but can contribute and a recent first-rounder, even though they’re parting with Bertans’ mega-contract.
Does a draft pick need to be going somewhere for this to work better? Is this selling far too low on a guy who had one of the five best-shooting seasons in the league in 2019-20? And more generally, how should we view the Bertans contract after his disappointing start to this season?
Hollinger: I still think Bertans has some value around the league, but I suspect you have this pegged about right — his valuation would be something of a mid-to-late first plus a not-great contract that provides a salary match.
You don’t have Dallas getting him in this deal, but he’d be an interesting fit there, as well, as part of the league’s first All-Latvian frontcourt. The Mavs have no first-rounders to trade, but Josh Green (No. 18 pick in 2020) is a potential 3-and-D guy whose defense is much further along than his 3 at this point.
Dwight Powell is coming back from a torn Achilles but is a good rim-runner on a fairly reasonable salary for two more years. Also, have you seen Washington’s centers? The low-key benefit of this deal is that it removes some of the salary handcuffs that will face the Wizards this coming offseason because of the luxury tax. They save $5 million going from Bertans to Powell, and Green’s salary adds only $3 million for his roster spot.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - omahen - 03-21-2021
Pelicans coulnd't beat Portland, but at least they are helping us with Denver
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - cow - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 03:55 PM)sefant Wrote: He is a beast (+6.1), but Willie is an on/off god and doubles up Jokic
Who is the real MVP?
WCS +9
Jokic +4
Why we need to be careful with stats.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - Kammrath - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 04:27 PM)cow Wrote: Why we need to be careful with stats.
No its not.
It is why we need to be careful with blatant MISAPPLICATION of stats.
1) On/off is something that is mostly a team stat that tells you about the dynamic of THAT particular team.
2) It can be dangerous to compare across teams because teams have different levels of talent, etc.
3) Sample size and number of minutes is especially important when looking at on/off. Low level minute guys can have especially "noisy" numbers.
More than anything else, on/off tells you this:
How successful and impactful a player has been in his particular role on his particular team.
If the role changed, the impact and numbers might change drastically. A 20 mins a night guy might have a huge positive impact in that role, but if you ask him to be 36 mins a night the numbers might drop drastically.
Jokic is 2nd on his team in on/off to Jamal Murray (the OTHER star). Murray is +11.1 in 1414 mins. Jokic is +6.8 in 1505 mins. On/off tells you the two most important and impactful players on DEN are Jokic and Murray this year.
Bertans is 1st on his team with +6.5 this year in 864 mins. Of course someone could say "no!" Ish Smith is 1st with +10.0....but he has only played 391 mins which is a too small sample size to trust. Advija is 2nd with +5.2 in 802 mins. Beal is 3rd with +1.2 in 1323 mins. This tells you that Beal is the most important heavy lifter on WAS but that Bertans and Advija are the most important role players.
Luka is 1st on his team with +8.5 in 1317 mins with 608 off. Of course someone could say "no!" WCS is first with +11.1...but he has played only 599 mins with 1326 mins off. Luka is the most important heavy lifter on the Mavs, but of the role players WCS has been the most impactful in the role given him by his coach.
Point of all this?
It is sloppy and ignorant to say on/off is telling you that WCS is better than Jokic.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - cow - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 05:18 PM)Kammrath Wrote: No its not.
It is why we need to be careful with blatant MISAPPLICATION of stats.
1) On/off is something that is mostly a team stat that tells you about the dynamic of THAT particular team.
2) It can be dangerous to compare across teams because teams have different levels of talent, etc.
3) Sample size and number of minutes is especially important when looking at on/off. Low level minute guys can have especially "noisy" numbers.
More than anything else, on/off tells you this:
How successful and impactful a player has been in his particular role on his particular team.
If the role changed, the impact and numbers might change drastically. A 20 mins a night guy might have a huge positive impact in that role, but if you ask him to be 36 mins a night the numbers might drop drastically.
Jokic is 2nd on his team in on/off to Jamal Murray (the OTHER star). Murray is +11.1 in 1414 mins. Jokic is +6.8 in 1505 mins. On/off tells you the two most important and impactful players on DEN are Jokic and Murray this year.
Bertans is 1st on his team with +6.5 this year in 864 mins. Of course someone could say "no!" Ish Smith is 1st with +10.0....but he has only played 391 mins which is a too small sample size to trust. Advija is 2nd with +5.2 in 802 mins. Beal is 3rd with +1.2 in 1323 mins. This tells you that Beal is the most important heavy lifter on WAS but that Bertans and Advija are the most important role players.
Luka is 1st on his team with +8.5 in 1317 mins with 608 off. Of course someone could say "no!" WCS is first with +11.1...but he has played only 599 mins with 1326 mins off. Luka is the most important heavy lifter on the Mavs, but of the role players WCS has been the most impactful in the role given him by his coach.
Point of all this?
It is sloppy and ignorant to say on/off is telling you that WCS is better than Jokic.
I'm not sure who you are arguing with? Sefant's playful post, my blurb and your diatribe are all saying the same thing.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - Halfnir - 03-21-2021
I'd take Bertrans over Gallinari who had been discussed quite often, cheaper and younger. Quite similar players stat wise .... 6-10 shooting guards with bad defense.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - omahen - 03-21-2021
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373761434543403013
This offer we can beat
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373758202077196292
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373756753150631943
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - omahen - 03-21-2021
This one I don't really believe. If true, we can offer them THJ or JRich, Green and future FRP and we basically match the offer
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373756590944219139
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373753371308531719
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - cow - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 05:33 PM)omahen Wrote: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373758202077196292
He's still young but I had much higher hopes for Kelly when he was with the Wizards and showed glimpses.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Lebron has high ankle sprain, XRays negative, MRI pending - cow - 03-21-2021
(03-21-2021, 05:36 PM)omahen Wrote: This one I don't really believe. If true, we can offer them THJ or JRich, Green and future FRP and we basically match the offer
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1373756590944219139
I guess it would depend on how you view Beasley and the protections on the pick from Minny. Not all FRPs are the same. I'd view the Minny package as better but they didn't accept the trade so...