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RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - iolide - 12-17-2019
(12-17-2019, 09:30 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: GSW will probably win the damn lottery and trade the #1 pick + DLo for another star.
Who is this #1 pick that is supposed to be franchise changing caliber, honest question. I haven't kept up with the draft; but isn't the Ball brother supposed to go #1? Or Cole who just had surgery in his Knee?
Edit, just looked up a Mock Draft; it's supposed to be Wiseman 1, Anthony Edwards 2, Ball brother 3.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - donzingis38 - 12-17-2019
I'm not feeling Jrue or Draymond. Pass.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 12-17-2019
(12-17-2019, 09:46 PM)iolide Wrote:(12-17-2019, 09:30 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: GSW will probably win the damn lottery and trade the #1 pick + DLo for another star.
Who is this #1 pick that is supposed to be franchise changing caliber, honest question. I haven't kept up with the draft; but isn't the Ball brother supposed to go #1? Or Cole who just had surgery in his Knee?
Edit, just looked up a Mock Draft; it's supposed to be Wiseman 1, Anthony Edwards 2, Ball brother 3.
It's the #1 pick. Other than maybe the Anthony Bennett draft, it's still worth a fuckton to a rebuilding team even if there is no Zion in the draft.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - ThunderMav - 12-17-2019
https://twitter.com/DanteOnDeck/status/1207058251491291143
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - iolide - 12-17-2019
(12-17-2019, 10:21 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: rebuilding team even if there is no Zion in the draft.
I rather have a Luka than a Zion
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - Aussiebballer - 12-17-2019
Without including Hayward it would be very hard for Boston to trade for Adams.
Would probably need a third team to help match salaries
Otherwise the have to include Kanter,Smart and a few cheap players
ie a 4 for 1 which OKC can't do due to roster numbers
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - vfromlmf - 12-18-2019
I guess someone is going to have to explain why OKC will blow up a playoff team in the hope that they obtain assets and try to build a playoff team in the future.
Right now the Thunder are 7th in the West and I don't see a team behind them who is clearly better.
Sure they're not a contender with their current roster ... but I do know a few people from Oklahoma, and those fans won't take kindly to tearing down the team and rebuilding. Those fans expect to win and every home game is a sellout.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the state is still 100% behind the team. And media bias aside, they actually have a team fans can root for.
They're starting a future HoF point guard who is fitting in surprisingly well, a beloved rugged center, a young budding star, an underrated former overall no 1 pick and a developing 21 year old first round draft choice. They have a couple of bench pieces.
I honestly don't think the Thunder will blow it up during the season. But everything changes around the draft.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Woj: Mavs want a Big Physical Presence next to KP) - cow - 12-18-2019
(12-17-2019, 07:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:(12-17-2019, 12:47 PM)cow Wrote: Russell is off the table but I wonder if GSW would take calls regarding Green.
GSW is taking this as a down year and making sure Steph, Klay, Green are all ready to go next year, no way are they going to give up a key part of their core like that.
If GSW isn't good next year then MAYBE they'll move Green, but until then I think there is a 0% chance they trade him for a reasonable package. Even though Green would be a great fit here.
(12-17-2019, 02:50 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote:(12-17-2019, 02:35 PM)cow Wrote: Don't think we have the ammo to get Jrue, at least not at the TDL.Would Curry, Brunson, Jackson, Lee, GSW 2nd round pick and our 2025 first get it done? That's a pretty good package with the picks.
Thats a crazy kind of package for a guy like Holiday. My opinion on Holiday changed a bit the last 2 years, but he's still an oft-injured player. Thats the kind of package to try for Beal imo.
Green's been kind of bad this year. He played a part in losing KD. They might be tired of his act and have a touch of buyers remorse and want some cap space for the 3.0 version of the Warriors. If I had to guess, I don't think they'd trade him, but I also don't think he's untouchable. If he's obtainable, he does seem like the type that could use a fresh start and would fit in nicely (defense, rebounding, passing/play maker, and good enough shooter to stretch the floor). It's a pipe dream but he could be a Tyson/Matrix like acquisition for the team. I like the idea of Green more than most of the other bigs being floated around.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - Dundalis - 12-18-2019
Myles Turner is easily the most attractive player mentioned here. Not only by the fact he is a long, rim protecting big who can shoot the 3, but the fact he's 23. The flexibility you have with him going forward if you wanna keep him or move him later in a trade, is far superior to any of the other trade targets, who are basically of the win now variety, when the fact is we don't need to win now. This teams window is open for a very long time, and bringing players in that have some kind of similar development schedule to Luka and KP should be preferred if possible. Using resources on a bad fit or someone right at the end of their career who is gonna handicap future flexibility is not remotely a good idea.
Hell no to any of Whiteside/Thompson/Adams who will all tank our spacing and offensive efficiency. This teams ability to play 5 out on any lineup (bar Boban, which is also partially why he rarely plays) is a significant aspect of why we are playing at a historic level offensively, despite not remotely having historic level offensive talent. Screw with that and you might see a Rondo level drop off in the teams offense. Not worth it for some tougher post defense and a few extra rebounds when we are already one of the best rebounding teams in the league without someone dominant on the glass.
I like Holiday, and think he fits really well next to Luka (he's basically a superior version of Delon Wright, who was our main FA target after Kemba), but I don't like the fact his huge contract finishes after 2022 rather than 2021. It's the next best FA class and the simple fact is you want to give yourself the opportunity to sign the best player available BEFORE Luka signs his max deal, making it much more difficult to free up a max slot during a period when I would bet a lot of players will be more attracted to playing for the Mavs than has ever been the case in this orgs history.
If we could manage to snap up Myles Turner, that would a fantastic get IMO. If you could do it while somehow keeping Maxi (probably unlikely), you have by far and away the best rim protection in the league, while maintaining the incredible 5 out spacing that is a key factor in our current historic level offense.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Woj: Mavs want a Big Physical Presence next to KP) - JamesConway - 12-18-2019
(12-17-2019, 07:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:That doesn't even get us into the conversation for Beal.(12-17-2019, 12:47 PM)cow Wrote: Russell is off the table but I wonder if GSW would take calls regarding Green.
GSW is taking this as a down year and making sure Steph, Klay, Green are all ready to go next year, no way are they going to give up a key part of their core like that.
If GSW isn't good next year then MAYBE they'll move Green, but until then I think there is a 0% chance they trade him for a reasonable package. Even though Green would be a great fit here.
(12-17-2019, 02:50 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote:(12-17-2019, 02:35 PM)cow Wrote: Don't think we have the ammo to get Jrue, at least not at the TDL.Would Curry, Brunson, Jackson, Lee, GSW 2nd round pick and our 2025 first get it done? That's a pretty good package with the picks.
Thats a crazy kind of package for a guy like Holiday. My opinion on Holiday changed a bit the last 2 years, but he's still an oft-injured player. Thats the kind of package to try for Beal imo.
We need more realistic stances around here. Beal is an allstar, Washington will get 25+ better offers for him than a mix of role players, expirings and non-difference maker prospects.
Remember all the bitching about not going for trades like Iggy+1st or Harkless+1 last summer?
Well those first round picks would now put us into the conversation for Jrue. The Pels have no need for a bunch of role players in their primes on long-term contracts. Seth, Kleber, Wright are useless to them.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Woj: Mavs want a Big Physical Presence next to KP) - Mapka - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 03:47 AM)JamesConway Wrote:Couldn' t care less about what's useful to Nola. Jrue is very, very fine. But at his price plus his salary I think having Seth and Kleber and DWright is better.(12-17-2019, 07:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:That doesn't even get us into the conversation for Beal.(12-17-2019, 12:47 PM)cow Wrote: Russell is off the table but I wonder if GSW would take calls regarding Green.
GSW is taking this as a down year and making sure Steph, Klay, Green are all ready to go next year, no way are they going to give up a key part of their core like that.
If GSW isn't good next year then MAYBE they'll move Green, but until then I think there is a 0% chance they trade him for a reasonable package. Even though Green would be a great fit here.
(12-17-2019, 02:50 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote:(12-17-2019, 02:35 PM)cow Wrote: Don't think we have the ammo to get Jrue, at least not at the TDL.Would Curry, Brunson, Jackson, Lee, GSW 2nd round pick and our 2025 first get it done? That's a pretty good package with the picks.
Thats a crazy kind of package for a guy like Holiday. My opinion on Holiday changed a bit the last 2 years, but he's still an oft-injured player. Thats the kind of package to try for Beal imo.
We need more realistic stances around here. Beal is an allstar, Washington will get 25+ better offers for him than a mix of role players, expirings and non-difference maker prospects.
Remember all the bitching about not going for trades like Iggy+1st or Harkless+1 last summer?
Well those first round picks would now put us into the conversation for Jrue. The Pels have no need for a bunch of role players in their primes on long-term contracts. Seth, Kleber, Wright are useless to them.
By the way, I don't think Harkless was offered to the MBT and Iggy would have made everything else impossible.
They really got it right this time.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - DanSchwartzgan - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 02:03 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Myles Turner is easily the most attractive player mentioned here. Not only by the fact he is a long, rim protecting big who can shoot the 3, but the fact he's 23.
If we could manage to snap up Myles Turner, that would a fantastic get IMO. If you could do it while somehow keeping Maxi (probably unlikely), you have by far and away the best rim protection in the league, while maintaining the incredible 5 out spacing that is a key factor in our current historic level offense.
I think your evaluation of Turner here is spot on. We already have the best "O" in the league, so the path to improvement isn't another 20 point scorer. It is Defense and Turner brings that. He's essentially a younger more expensive and better version of Maxi. Is the incremental improvement he brings worth the extra $10 million? Probably. The question is what does it take in terms of outgoing talent.
I struggle to see a direct match with Indiana. Like Dallas, they need to upgrade their starters and would expect a better fitting high level guy in return. The only reason there is even a consideration of moving Turner is his fit with Sabonis and the fact his numbers are down a bit this season. I suspect Maxi would need to be part of the outgoing salary just to keep them whole at the position. But they would want more and I don't see anything they need on our roster.
I thought the Gallinari idea in the other thread made some sense, but Indy isn't taking expiring Gallinari for 23 year old locked up Turner without compensation. So, OKC pays a first for Turner and then sends him to us for some non-starters and a high second? I'm a fan, but it ain't happening. They'd be better off keeping him and SGA as their building blocks and getting a return for Adams. I just don't see a path to this level player (Turner or Jrue Holiday) at the TDL. Come June when we can include our first in a deal at the draft maybe. But right now our assets are financial and people here are way overvaluing the Brunson's, Jackson's and Curry's of the world (and not even bothering to construct legal trades in some of these 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 ideas). Smart basketball fans can do better.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - dirkfansince1998 - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 07:02 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(12-18-2019, 02:03 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Myles Turner is easily the most attractive player mentioned here. Not only by the fact he is a long, rim protecting big who can shoot the 3, but the fact he's 23.
If we could manage to snap up Myles Turner, that would a fantastic get IMO. If you could do it while somehow keeping Maxi (probably unlikely), you have by far and away the best rim protection in the league, while maintaining the incredible 5 out spacing that is a key factor in our current historic level offense.
I think your evaluation of Turner here is spot on. We already have the best "O" in the league, so the path to improvement isn't another 20 point scorer. It is Defense and Turner brings that. He's essentially a younger more expensive and better version of Maxi. Is the incremental improvement he brings worth the extra $10 million? Probably. The question is what does it take in terms of outgoing talent.
I struggle to see a direct match with Indiana. Like Dallas, they need to upgrade their starters and would expect a better fitting high level guy in return. The only reason there is even a consideration of moving Turner is his fit with Sabonis and the fact his numbers are down a bit this season. I suspect Maxi would need to be part of the outgoing salary just to keep them whole at the position. But they would want more and I don't see anything they need on our roster.
I thought the Gallinari idea in the other thread made some sense, but Indy isn't taking expiring Gallinari for 23 year old locked up Turner without compensation. So, OKC pays a first for Turner and then sends him to us for some non-starters and a high second? I'm a fan, but it ain't happening. They'd be better off keeping him and SGA as their building blocks and getting a return for Adams. I just don't see a path to this level player (Turner or Jrue Holiday) at the TDL. Come June when we can include our first in a deal at the draft maybe. But right now our assets are financial and people here are way overvaluing the Brunson's, Jackson's and Curry's of the world (and not even bothering to construct legal trades in some of these 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 ideas). Smart basketball fans can do better.
I think on defense Turners best comparisation is KP. He is not on Klebers level as a perimeter defender but has been among the best rim protectors in the last few years. He also is a mediocre rebounder. On offense he is similar to KP as well. Prefers to shoot from the perimeter. Indiana forced him to change his shot selection this year. Less midrange jumpshots and more 3s. That´s probably the reason why he is struggling right now. Overall it is probably not a good fit. Both him and KP are below average pick and roll players and struggle to score in the paint.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - DanSchwartzgan - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 07:45 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:(12-18-2019, 07:02 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:(12-18-2019, 02:03 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Myles Turner is easily the most attractive player mentioned here. Not only by the fact he is a long, rim protecting big who can shoot the 3, but the fact he's 23.
If we could manage to snap up Myles Turner, that would a fantastic get IMO. If you could do it while somehow keeping Maxi (probably unlikely), you have by far and away the best rim protection in the league, while maintaining the incredible 5 out spacing that is a key factor in our current historic level offense.
I think your evaluation of Turner here is spot on. We already have the best "O" in the league, so the path to improvement isn't another 20 point scorer. It is Defense and Turner brings that. He's essentially a younger more expensive and better version of Maxi. Is the incremental improvement he brings worth the extra $10 million? Probably. The question is what does it take in terms of outgoing talent.
I struggle to see a direct match with Indiana. Like Dallas, they need to upgrade their starters and would expect a better fitting high level guy in return. The only reason there is even a consideration of moving Turner is his fit with Sabonis and the fact his numbers are down a bit this season. I suspect Maxi would need to be part of the outgoing salary just to keep them whole at the position. But they would want more and I don't see anything they need on our roster.
I thought the Gallinari idea in the other thread made some sense, but Indy isn't taking expiring Gallinari for 23 year old locked up Turner without compensation. So, OKC pays a first for Turner and then sends him to us for some non-starters and a high second? I'm a fan, but it ain't happening. They'd be better off keeping him and SGA as their building blocks and getting a return for Adams. I just don't see a path to this level player (Turner or Jrue Holiday) at the TDL. Come June when we can include our first in a deal at the draft maybe. But right now our assets are financial and people here are way overvaluing the Brunson's, Jackson's and Curry's of the world (and not even bothering to construct legal trades in some of these 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 ideas). Smart basketball fans can do better.
I think on defense Turners best comparisation is KP. He is not on Klebers level as a perimeter defender but has been among the best rim protectors in the last few years.
The point about perimeter D is true, but Turner isn't just a weak side off-the-ball shot blocker like KP. Turner actually guards players really well (DFG%'s are really good too) AND he's a good off-the-ball helper. I think he would take the Maxi/Powell on-the-ball role at the times he'd be paired with KP and would do it very effectively. His career D-Rating is 103. His abilities there would definitely drop opponent scoring. Yes, we'd give up some rebounds compared to Maxi, but I don't think it would cost us offensively at all.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - HanspardsShowerVoice - 12-18-2019
(12-17-2019, 09:30 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: GSW will probably win the damn lottery and trade the #1 pick + DLo for another star.
Fuckers
I think the most likely scenerio is they trade their Top 5 pick and DLo for Beal, and Beal slides into the KD slot.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - vfromlmf - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 07:02 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I thought the Gallinari idea in the other thread made some sense
I don't know that this trade is too far off tbh.
I think Gallinari's value is a young player, expiring and a 2nd. A recent analogue would be the Barnes trade which involved Jackson + expiring. Gallo is worth slightly more than Barnes, but not much. He can walk next year.
Turner's value is clearly higher, a young player, an expiring and a 1st. A comparable would be the Porzingis deal which was a young player + expiring + two 1st. Turner is very good, but he's not a Zinger-level All-Star.
Gallo + Mavs 2025 1st --> Pacers
Lee + Jackson + GSW 2nd (via Mavs) --> Thunder
Turner + Sampson --> Mavs
In this scenario the Mavs are essentially selling a young player + expiring + high 2nd + 1st for Turner.
The Pacers get a better fitting veteran starter to go compete in the East.
The Thunder get some value from Gallo and backfill the lineup with a young scorer.
I think the structure of this deal is defendable. Where some might argue is whether or not the Thunder want to do a deal now, or wait. They can get the 8th seed with the team they have. Similarly, I watched the Pacers last night and wonder if the whole "Turner doesn't fit with Sabonis" concept is overblown. They looks fine together if you ask me. Indiana may not want or need an upgrade. Last, while the structure makes some sense, the underlying assets from the Mavs aren't the best. Is Jackson the best "young player" the Thunder can get? Is the 2025 1st enough for Indiana? Probably not.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - ItsGoTime - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 09:42 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Gallo + Mavs 2025 1st --> PacersI like this much better. I think OKC might want a bit more to pull the trigger, but it's really close. I said when the JJ for HB trade happened that I thought the trade would be even if we had gotten Harry Giles as well as JJ. This gives OKC the equivalent of what I thought was even at the time of that trade. I think the Pacers end is spot on in terms of value and on court want. One question? What is the reason for the Sampson inclusion? I don't know anything about him so can't tell whether we're getting value or absorbing him. His inclusion is in no way needed though so it doesn't matter much.
Lee + Jackson + GSW 2nd (via Mavs) --> Thunder
Turner + Sampson --> Mavs
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - BigDirk41 - 12-18-2019
The 3 for 1 ideas are due to KP and THJ being the only players we have with high salaries. Pelicans aren't taking THJ back so any trade starts with Lee and then whatever players they may want. It doesn't matter anyway. Donnie will do what's best for the Mavs. He won't do what any of us think or want. If he can make this team better this year, he will. I'm not going to knock other people's trade ideas. This is just for fun.
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - ItsGoTime - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 10:32 AM)BigDirk41 Wrote: He won't do what any of us think or want.Not true, you take that back! Donnie reads every one of my posts and considers them carefully!
RE: NBA Trade Rumors (Stein: Jrue Holiday available via trade) - vfromlmf - 12-18-2019
(12-18-2019, 10:24 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: What is the reason for the Sampson inclusion?
Pacers are sending out $18M for Turner and receiving $22M for Gallo. Including Sampson to even out the money a bit. Really just a throw in. Sampson has some 3D wing traits but he's out of the rotation. Pacers don't have much bad salary they can rid themselves of, as far as I can tell.