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+--- Thread: 2023 DRAFT: Mavs take Lively, OMP, sign Mike Miles to 2-way, sign Jordan Walker (/showthread.php?tid=2272)
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - omahen - 05-17-2023
Orlando will be another interesting team to watch. They have 14 players under contract and three picks in the draft (6, 11 and 36). They have team options on MCW, Bitadze or Scoefield and I think they will let MCW go. Isaac is probably also going to be released, unless perhaps they find a 2 for 1 trade for some kind of Isaac, Fultz, Harris combo. Positionally, they have young players basically everywhere, with SG being the biggest weakness. They could also use a better PG.
PG: Fultz, Anthony
SG: Suggs
SF: Wagner, Okeke,
PF: Banchero, Bol, Houstan
C: WCJ, Goga
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Jakeospikez - 05-17-2023
Gradey Dick isn't the only option out there for some instant shooting. Brice Sensabaugh shot 40.5% from 3 and 83% ft. Weak playmaking, but should be able to come in and instantly be a spot up shooter I'd think. 30lbs heavier than Gradey, strong and has more defensive upside. Good trade back target.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Branduil - 05-17-2023
I do not think the Mavs should trade the pick. The last few years have shown that one of the best ways to get cheap and good center play is to just draft a good center. You have their rookie contract, and unless they turn out to be a generational center (in which case you win anyway), you probably aren't going to have to max them on their second contract. Lively could fit that bill.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Chicagojk - 05-17-2023
How the draft played out, Walker at 10 is really interesting. If Walker makes it to 8, would Washington take him with KP and other guys they are paying money to or invested a pick in at that PF position? Same with Utah, who has Kessler and Lauri as their two foundation pieces. Who knows what bad teams take though or if they decide to take the best player (ainge). But if Walker makes it to 8, there is a good chance he is still there at 10.
Where I am at now and my opinion could change, I would want one of the athletic wings at 10; Black, Walker, Whitmore, Ausur Thompson, Hendricks. Hope one of those slip a slot and make it to 10. This team has lacked one of those long, athletic guys forever. As of now, that would be my wish. I think each of those guys could potentially impact a game without scoring being the main focus.
If all are gone, I would really consider Lively. I am not ready to go there yet, but this would be a pick who could help a little now, but could be a foundation piece in the future. I can already tell you, Jokic would abuse him next year in a playoff series. But is a 8 pt, 16 reb, 5 block line in a playoff game something he is capable of along with very good defense? If so, that is worth the 10th pick...even if you had to wait for a year or so.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Chicagojk - 05-17-2023
https://twitter.com/CallieCaplan/status/1658647085007216642
What if they really have been playing Sim City? Ha ha
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - DanSchwartzgan - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 06:39 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: How the draft played out, Walker at 10 is really interesting. If Walker makes it to 8, would Washington take him with KP and other guys they are paying money to or invested a pick in at that PF position? Same with Utah, who has Kessler and Lauri as their two foundation pieces. Who knows what bad teams take though or if they decide to take the best player (ainge). But if Walker makes it to 8, there is a good chance he is still there at 10.
Where I am at now and my opinion could change, I would want one of the athletic wings at 10; Black, Walker, Whitmore, Ausur Thompson, Hendricks. Hope one of those slip a slot and make it to 10. This team has lacked one of those long, athletic guys forever. As of now, that would be my wish. I think each of those guys could potentially impact a game without scoring being the main focus.
If all are gone, I would really consider Lively.
The Ringer now has Walker at 10 with Utah taking PG Wallace. It really seems like Detroit and Indy are the keys regarding Walker/Hendricks/Whitmore. Washington could certainly hedge their bet on Kuzma, but they could go other directions too. If goes Wallace or Dick, then one of Walker/Hendricks/Whitmore likely makes it. Duffy represents Walker and Whitmore. The Raymond Brothers have Hendricks.
If you get Walker, you might could get away with Naz Reid as your MLE guy. I don't think Reid plays enough D if you get one of the less D-oriented big wings. I think you have to keep Leonard Miller and GG Jackson in the big wing conversation if things don't go your way 1-9. I spent some time on Miller. The things he needs to fix are not insurmountable at all. If you get someone like him though, Naz Reid probably isn't your guy. My apologies to those who have brought him up before as I'm not trying to claim credit for your brilliance. But I'd probably throw the Full MLE at Paul Reed to get him away from Philly. If you told me we got Reed and Hendricks, I'd probably call it a summer and hang onto 2027 until I can trade 25 with it.
Reed/Powell/McGee
Hendricks/Maxi/Morris (Bertans is S/W)
Green/THJ/Lawson
Irving/Reggie/Pinson
Luka/Hardy/Wright
Obviously Hendricks (or Miller or Jackson or Whitmore) won't start from day one. BTW, is a Bertans S/W part of why Morris is confident in his return. Do that and sign Irving for just under Luka money and you have the Full MLE.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Chicagojk - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 07:41 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The Ringer now has Walker at 10 with Utah taking PG Wallace. It really seems like Detroit and Indy are the keys regarding Walker/Hendricks/Whitmore. Washington could certainly hedge their bet on Kuzma, but they could go other directions too. If goes Wallace or Dick, then one of Walker/Hendricks/Whitmore likely makes it. Duffy represents Walker and Whitmore. The Raymond Brothers have Hendricks.
If you get Walker, you might could get away with Naz Reid as your MLE guy. I don't think Reid plays enough D if you get one of the less D-oriented big wings. I think you have to keep Leonard Miller and GG Jackson in the big wing conversation if things don't go your way 1-9. I spent some time on Miller. The things he needs to fix are not insurmountable at all. If you get someone like him though, Naz Reid probably isn't your guy. My apologies to those who have brought him up before as I'm not trying to claim credit for your brilliance. But I'd probably throw the Full MLE at Paul Reed to get him away from Philly. If you told me we got Reed and Hendricks, I'd probably call it a summer and hang onto 2027 until I can trade 25 with it.
Reed/Powell/McGee
Hendricks/Maxi/Morris (Bertans is S/W)
Green/THJ/Lawson
Irving/Reggie/Pinson
Luka/Hardy/Wright
Obviously Hendricks (or Miller or Jackson or Whitmore) won't start from day one. BTW, is a Bertans S/W part of why Morris is confident in his return. Do that and sign Irving for just under Luka money and you have the Full MLE.
Yeah, it will be interesting. The reason I like a Reid and Walker offseason is it appears to be two solid doubles. Reid is a skilled big who plays hard. Walker is a young big who plays hard. It doesn't erase all our needs but puts us in a much better position. A Reid/Walker/Maxi/Powell front court is a nice mix of skill set imo.
Sure, defense is still an issue and the wing talent is not championship contender. But we would still have the 27th first round pick with some average to solid assets. If we could use that pick for an upgrade on Bullock and then uncover another player who can be a top 8 player who is a good defender....now we are talking.
I am sure there are more attractive alternatives but I would be very happy with a Reid/Walker/small smart move offseason.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - DanSchwartzgan - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 07:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Yeah, it will be interesting. The reason I like a Reid and Walker offseason is it appears to be two solid doubles. Reid is a skilled big who plays hard. Walker is a young big who plays hard. It doesn't erase all our needs but puts us in a much better position. A Reid/Walker/Maxi/Powell front court is a nice mix of skill set imo.
Sure, defense is still an issue and the wing talent is not championship contender. But we would still have the 27th first round pick with some average to solid assets. If we could use that pick for an upgrade on Bullock and then uncover another player who can be a top 8 player who is a good defender....now we are talking.
I am sure there are more attractive alternatives but I would be very happy with a Reid/Walker/small smart move offseason.
Oh, absolutely. I love Reid with Walker. I just worry Walker won't get to 10. If you go with the less defensively dominant 'big wings', then I'm less a fan of Reid and more a fan of Reed.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - dirkfansince1998 - 05-17-2023
Depending on Kyrie´s future in Dallas I wouldn´t rule out Cason Wallace as an option. Track record of Kentucky guards in recent drafts is incredible and on paper he is the perfect fit next to Luka. Can handle the ball. Has some playmaking skills. Improved his shooting. Is probably the best on ball defender in the entire draft class. Only concern are his injuries. Is his body already breaking down?
Edit: Would be another Excel/Schwartz guy.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - haveitall - 05-17-2023
The scouting is super important in this draft and offseason. Dallas has to find good players and it might not be who everyone expects. Did anyone expect Walker Kessler to be a good starting center last year? No. How about Jalen Williams who was picked 12th. If Kyrie resigns Dallas will have 2 stars already. Look at all the undrafted talent on Miami (Strus, Vincent, Martin, Robinson) . Austin Reaves was undrafted.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Reunion Mav - 05-17-2023
I really like this/these ideas. I’m just so happy that the 10 spot became a reality. My heart was pounding when the 11 spot was called. I got hopeful for a few seconds and then relieved with the opportunity that had become a reality. Our draft talk became real. The Tank became successful though expensive. Now the summer must become successful.
I agree keeping a cost controlled draft pick is wise for any pick that becomes over a short time our 3rd to 6th best player. I also like a cost controlled MLE addition with some cost savings on Kylie and Powell to make it happen.
I like using many of our current players in a hopeful way. If they don’t start in the playoffs they become decent to good 6-9 level depth. I like keeping 25 and 27 for a future starter level package.
This also doesn’t involve hating or blaming current players or coaches. Instead we add less expensive help and reduce some current roles to a much more success inducing level and increase the roles of current quality young guys we already have.
LA showed last night that NBA success now involves having at least 3 big guys that can defend guys like Davis or LeBron etc. Adding 2 big guys who give us 4-5 big guy options is increasingly going to be required.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Tyler - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 08:27 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Depending on Kyrie´s future in Dallas I wouldn´t rule out Cason Wallace as an option.
It makes sense that the first option for Dallas would be a big defensive wing or perhaps a center like Lively. They need frontcourt help badly. But hypothetically speaking, how would everyone change draft strategies if Dallas was confident they were flipping Irving for Ayton (or another frontcourt guy) once the FA window opens?
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - omahen - 05-17-2023
Mavs have two stars, but desperately need 3rd and 4th best guy, as neither of the existing ones could fit into this role, imho. It is difficult to envision that #10 pick would be able to fill that role too, at least not in the same timeline Kyrie signing dictates. However, I would still be open to keeping the pick if Mavs can bring a legit 3rd best guy with remaining assets. We saw in the Lakers example that it is possible even with just one pick and a crappy salary.
While I like Reed and mentioned his name a season ago, I don't think he is good enough to fill that role. Mavs have to aim higher and for a more proven name, imho. I don't think Reid makes sense as he is not a good defender (we could just keep Wood if this is a profile we are looking for).
I think we need to aim higher and demand more from Mavs FO. Personally, I want someone like Green, Turner, Claxton, Ayton, OG or similar level of established defender. I am affraid Mavs don't have time to wait with a more "splashy" move. If it takes #10 to get one of those types, than I could also be convinced that someone like Reed fills the remaining gap well enough.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - DanSchwartzgan - 05-17-2023
Great posts from Reunion, Tyler and Omahen. Any of which could be spot on or dead wrong. It really comes down to opportunity and philosophy.
Getting the right guy at 10 and keeping him would be a great in the long run in terms of cost control balanced against talent over time. No one wants to hear it, but the budget is going to matter to sustained competitiveness. Even the best prospect (say Walker) is just a one-dimensional bench defender and roll man his first season (and you’ve used a year of Kyrie’s window as Omahen points out). It is ‘a philosophy’. Not necessarily wrong, but you have to nail the pick in such a way that you don’t mind this player developing into something really good as Kyrie fades. One other note, I show there is a way this gets done on my spreadsheet and we stay out of the tax.
I would count Omahen and Tyler’s posts as ‘go big or go home’ ideas. Not wrong, just different. Either yields a better big man than Reid/Reed or the like, but at what cost. Every deal we’ve made in recent years has been more expensive than I thought it would be. So, expect that 10 and 2027 would be outgoing in many of these deals (or at the very least 2027 and a trade down of the 2023 pick). This better uses the Kyrie window, but will leave the cupboard bare without the developmental piece. It also limits the money on the MLE piece to the TP MLE instead of the Full MLE.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - ballsrchr - 05-17-2023
Well...now that the pie in the sky #1 pick is kaput, which was entirely expected--and we actually do have the #10 pick, which was a hope--I hope (once again) that our Mavs "Brain Trust" use it to pick the best player of need available.
We need a big, versatile wing and/or a big, versatile center. For those who do the deep dives...Who fits?
I was just thinking that if the NBA wanted to diddle with Cuban, giving the #1 pick to San Antonio would do it...
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 10:26 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Even the best prospect (say Walker) is just a one-dimensional bench defender and roll man his first season
I would challenge this. We don't have a single PF on this roster, there are certainly guys (Walker, Hendricks, Whitmore) that have a chance to be there at 10 that would absolutely start from day one based on our needs, for better or worse. Could be wrong but I do think the idea that a rookie wouldn't start kind of ignores how garbage we were are certain phases of basketball last season.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Nowitzki Way - 05-17-2023
Very happy to see we kept the pick this year. This is a huge piece for the off season.
I'm enjoying the analysis you guys are throwing down. Internally i'm torn on the two options
1. Trade the pick for a veteran. This better suites the Kyrie window and the win now approach
2. Use the pick and draft a young developmental piece. Hoping he can contribute some this year, but accept some growing pains.
This all points to Kryie and how important it will be to know where we stand with him. With the draft happening before free agency, this puts Dallas in such a difficult position. Especially with someone as "odd" as Kyrie. No one really knows what he's thinking.
Thats why i'm in favor of the 3rd option which has been mentioned in this thread:
3. Trade down - Do this to acquire a veteran(or offload salary) and still keep a pick for a player you can develop.
I've seen the idea of trading with Atlanta at 15 and somehow getting Capela or maybe even Collins. Then using 15 as your developmental option. I see that as a sweet spot for Lively, Miller, GG Jackson, Hood-Schifino, or Sensabaugh.
Trading down blends the two ideas. i think its likely we can get the same type of player in 15 range that we could get at 10. As long as one of those long athletic wins dont slip. As Chicago pointed, we havent had one of those in forever. If the top guys are gone, it would be nice to trade. But of course it takes two to tango.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-17-2023
Looking at the Spurs' roster with Wemby coming there, I really like Zach Collins and Julian Champagnie (has the makings of an excellent wing defender).
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - DanSchwartzgan - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 10:46 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I would challenge this. We don't have a single PF on this roster, there are certainly guys (Walker, Hendricks, Whitmore) that have a chance to be there at 10 that would absolutely start from day one based on our needs, for better or worse. Could be wrong but I do think the idea that a rookie wouldn't start kind of ignores how garbage we were are certain phases of basketball last season.
You probably have to tell me who the center is going to be before we can decide this (you know, as much as message board guys can ‘decide’ anything).
Where I’m coming from is last year’s #4, a much older Keegan Murray, did plug into a starting slot and held it. Sacramento was tailor made for plugging in a rookie. If you told me we somehow got Turner or Claxton or Ayton without giving up #10, then I could see it. If we have to settle for a lesser center while keeping our pick, I’d submit we would bring the rookie PF along slowly much like we did with Hardy.
Luka can start at PF and allow two wing defenders (Green and Reggie) to start with Irving and a C. Alternatively, Maxi could start and the youngster be brought off the bench and earn more and more minutes over time. Morris would be the safety valve if the rookie is overmatched early. Might someone like Black start by late in the season? Maybe. I’d probably go back to the idea that the ability to start the rookie may depend on the quality of center starting next to them. An older and more highly coveted Keegan is probably the exception, not the rule.
RE: 2023 DRAFT: June 22 - Mavs2021 - 05-17-2023
(05-17-2023, 10:46 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I would challenge this. We don't have a single PF on this roster, there are certainly guys (Walker, Hendricks, Whitmore) that have a chance to be there at 10 that would absolutely start from day one based on our needs, for better or worse. Could be wrong but I do think the idea that a rookie wouldn't start kind of ignores how garbage we were are certain phases of basketball last season.
This. Kessler was the 22nd pick. Anyone here want to argue he was not better than Powell or McGee last season already? Let alone how good he´ll be going forward.