+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - Mikelorenzo - 11-27-2022
Valanciunas has lost prominence this season averaging 23 minutes...would we even be interested in trading him for Wood if Kidd plans to keep ignoring him?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - chaparral - 11-27-2022
https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/z5ejia/mark_cuban_throws_a_tantrum_because_someones/
This clip should be proof that Cuban is way too involved in the everyday actions of the Mavs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - SleepingHero - 11-27-2022
(11-27-2022, 05:36 PM)Mikelorenzo Wrote: Valanciunas has lost prominence this season averaging 23 minutes...would we even be interested in trading him for Wood if Kidd plans to keep ignoring him?
Yes please. Although I don't think Valanciunas brings anything that much different to the table to Wood other than maybe being a better rebounder for his size.
Wood is as good of a fit as there is as a role player. If we want any better player we're talking about an all-star. Kidd can't seem to accept the flaws and just roll with it.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - F Gump - 11-27-2022
(11-27-2022, 04:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: It is not a "conspiracy theory" when it has been reported that he is the driving force behind some of these key decisions recently.
It was reported that the moves this summer were Kidd and Nico, NOT Cuban. Look, man, I am just going from what the reporters are saying.
Actually, what you are saying is very inconsistent -- like HF was saying, you are all over the lot on this stuff, where you talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time on this stuff. You blame it on the reporters, but what they said, and what you are saying, isn't at all the same.
They said that Kidd was the one who wanted/didn't want this player or that. That's all.
But it is YOUR conspiracy, not anyone else's, that is claiming Kidd is acting as "the defacto DAL GM" (which infers extensive CONTROL, not just offering input on player acquisitions). And it is your claim, no one else's, that Kidd is actively trying to sabotage Wood, in some sort of power play.
If that's what you think, so be it, but then the dance all over the lot begins when the question arises of how Kidd is actually able to be making any GM decisions (if indeed he is) and how this power play could possibly happen. GM decisions are Nico's job, supposedly. And either Nico does have the GM job and is actually making the GM decisions, or he doesn't and isn't.
In addition, either Cuban must be involved in all of this and doing his micro-managing and backdoor GMing (which then allows the decision-making to get skewed and power plays to be part of the landscape) or he isn't.
But it's a binary choice in both instances, an either/or and not a both.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - IamDougieFresh - 11-27-2022
Hopefully Kidd has figured it out now. Our best players are as follows. You can argue the order on some.
Luka
Spencer
Wood
Green
DFS
Maxi
HARDY
Bertans
Dwight
Frank
Not currently NBA players and need to be reality checked: Bullock, THJ
Not good enough to be in the NBA: McGee, Facu, Pinson
Get Wood and Green in the starting lineup for the next 10 games. Try to light a fire under Bullock and THJ. Give Hardy a chance. Then reassess.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
(11-27-2022, 01:49 PM)Kammrath Wrote: No. Just no. I am NOT going to stop being "all over the place." The responsibility and blame is nuanced and complicated and complex in this. It isn't as simple as one thing. So I am going to keep highlighting every facet of the diamond when the time is appropriate.
There is no nuance to what you are saying. It is just venting frustrations at the wrong things over and over and deluding yourself that you are on to something.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 11:30 AM)hakeemfaan Wrote: There is no nuance to what you are saying. It is just venting frustrations at the wrong things over and over and deluding yourself that you are on to something.
Seriously dude?
You mad about something where you need to go "ad hominem" and make this personal? Geez. Just sad.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
(11-27-2022, 04:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: It is not a "conspiracy theory" when it has been reported that he is the driving force behind some of these key decisions recently.
It was reported that the moves this summer were Kidd and Nico, NOT Cuban.
Look, man, I am just going from what the reporters are saying. You can retort with your own conspiracy theories and you can call it "fake news." Whatever, I don't care.
It is strange that you are so frustrated that you are not even reading carefully.
You are arguing that you have credible sources saying Kidd wields a lot of influence in personnel decisions.
F Gump or I are not agreeing or disagreeing that Kidd might be influencing key GM moves. What we are saying is that if he is, then right away…not at some point…it is Cubans fault. Firing Kidd is not changing anything until Cuban gets a GM who has the skins on the wall to ask him to back off.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - KillerLeft - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 11:37 AM)hakeemfaan Wrote: Firing Kidd is not changing anything until Cuban gets a GM who has the skins on the wall to ask him to back off.
Well, I think your point is that Cuban being GM is the biggest problem and probably the cause of most of the other problems, and I totally agree with that.
But, I also think Kidd is compounding things by managing the team pretty poorly so far this season. So, I think some issues might be helped by replacing Kidd, potentially (not that I think they will).
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 11:31 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Seriously dude?
You mad about something where you need to go "ad hominem" and make this personal? Geez. Just sad.
This is not personal. Sorry you are seeing it that way.
This whole thing is on Cuban. Until Cuban changes only the names will change. I am fine with firing Kidd and Nico today. I have nothing invested in them.
It will be a different HC and a different GM but nothing will change until Cuban stops hiring puppets as GMs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 11:37 AM)hakeemfaan Wrote: What we are saying is that if he is, then right away…not at some point…it is Cubans fault. Firing Kidd is not changing anything until Cuban gets a GM who has the skins on the wall to ask him to back off.
Look here his my position as simply as possible, just one more time:
1) Everything comes back to the owner/ownership. This is ALWAYS the case in every team situation. This is a given fact that doesn't need to be argued for. Ownership ALWAYS has the final power and therefore must ALWAYS answer for all failures in the organization. Cuban therefore is ALWAYS at fault when the organization falters. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. I have never, ever said otherwise.
2) But underneath ownership there are always complexities and nuance in every organization. People are empowered (or not) to do jobs on behalf of ownership. Those people need to be held accountable for doing their jobs. Yes, they answer to ownership, but they also need to be held responsible for their failures and ineptitude.
3) It has been reported by Cato (who is no friend of Cuban) that this past summer Cuban empowered Nico/Kidd to make the moves they did. And the moves made were done by Nico/Kidd.
4) It has been reported that Kidd didn't want Dragic, did want Facu, and did want McGee. One can speculate that Kidd did not want the Wood trade based on how Kidd has been really, really hesitant to play him and feature him and lean on him.
5) Cuban may have meddled a lot with GM decisions in the past, but we have no evidence that he has ever meddled with coaching decisions. Therefore, Kidd should be called out when the coaching decisions and rotations are suspect at best. Yes, Cuban ultimately is responsible for hiring Kidd, but Cuban is not responsible if Kidd makes stupid coaching decisions other than needing to fire him if it continues.
I want to continually call your attention back to point #1 anytime you think I am exonerating Cuban. I. AM. NOT. But I think always and endlessly saying "it is Cuban's fault!" anytime something goes wrong with the Mavs is pretty childish. And the owner is not going to be fired. But hopefully he can learn lessons and make better decisions in the future. And if you don't think he can, then I would encourage you for your own mental health to find another team to root for.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
It is not childish. You are ignoring the elephant in the room and focusing on the minutiae.
The pieces underneath can change. Nothing will change with this organization until we get a GM with skins on the wall.
Having the so called historical offense in the regular season and the run we made last playoffs has skewed our views on this team.
I said repeatedly that historical offense was fools gold. Even in the regular season in tight games, even under RC, the team seemed lost. Then we proceeded to the playoffs and got beat two straight years by the Clippers. Are you saying Lou is a better coach than RC? Then last season some teams had key injuries and we did play well. However the West is stronger now and we have lost our 2nd best player. The problem is you look at players like Wood as something transformational that Kidd is somehow impeding. I look at him as a journeyman who has had plenty of stops and is no spring chicken. So excuse me if I can’t get frustrated like you at Kidd that somehow Kidd is causing this team to go backwards.
When one accepts that this team is not a top tier legit contending team, that last years run required a lot of things to fall in place, and now we have lost even the 2nd best player from that run, then one will start looking at the correct reasons.
Else go ahead and replace the coach or GM or both. We will be having the same conversations year after year. Cuban at this point is legit a worse owner than Jerry.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
You say Cato said Cuban has empowered Nico and Kidd
Are you even reading what you are writing? Don’t you see the OBVIOUS problem with that?
You are using that to somehow exonerate Cuban. If Cuban is not laying out a clear hierarchy, especially with what just happened in the previous regime, then it is on Cuban. Don’t blast Kidd saying he is making personnel decisions and then in the same sentence say that Cuban is not at fault. That is 100% a failure on Cuban for not stepping in or for not hiring a stronger GM who would tell the coach to back off.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 12:17 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: You say Cato said Cuban has empowered Nico and Kidd
Are you even reading what you are writing? Don’t you see the OBVIOUS problem with that?
You are using that to somehow exonerate Cuban. If Cuban is not laying out a clear hierarchy, especially with what just happened in the previous regime, then it is on Cuban. Don’t blast Kidd saying he is making personnel decisions and then in the same sentence say that Cuban is not at fault. That is 100% a failure on Cuban for not stepping in or for not hiring a stronger GM who would tell the coach to back off.
Serious question: Are you reading anything I am writing?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
Kamm I am just going to ignore your posts on this and you can ignore mine. You say I am not reading clearly what you are stating I feel you are just repeating stuff and not understanding where the clear blame lies. I made a very simple point about your Cato comment. Anyone should be able to read that and clearly understand what I am saying. But at this point for whatever reason, you don’t seem to be able to do that.
You can have the final word on this and continue your frustrations at the wrong things.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 12:27 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: Kamm I am just going to ignore your posts on this and you can ignore mine. You say I am not reading clearly what you are stating I feel you are just repeating stuff and not understanding where the clear blame lies. I made a very simple point about your Cato comment. Anyone should be able to read that and clearly understand what I am saying. But at this point for whatever reason, you don’t seem to be able to do that.
You can have the final word on this and continue your frustrations at the wrong things.
We should probably move on, but let me just repost my position verbatum:
Quote:1) Everything comes back to the owner/ownership. This is ALWAYS the case in every team situation. This is a given fact that doesn't need to be argued for. Ownership ALWAYS has the final power and therefore must ALWAYS answer for all failures in the organization. Cuban therefore is ALWAYS at fault when the organization falters. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. I have never, ever said otherwise....
....I want to continually call your attention back to point #1 anytime you think I am exonerating Cuban. I. AM. NOT.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - hakeemfaan - 11-28-2022
Actually I didnt your post fully.
I did read about the main thing we are debating My points still stand that you are playing both sides and then still somehow not understand that if Kidd is overstepping his bounds it is Cubans fault.
I did miss this gem though. Thanks for your concerns about my mental health and trying to gaslight me. What a loser of an argument. You should be ashamed. I am not the one ranting and getting frustrated by ignoring the elephant in the room. Enjoy dude.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - Okstate819 - 11-28-2022
Semi positive take.... If Kidd wakes up this team is going to win a lot of games in the short term by running the Luka/Wood P&R into the ground. They simply refuse to run this as much as they should. When teams are trapping Luka, the answer is for Wood to be screener and catch the initial pass from Luka and attack downhill. This becomes easy offense with him either finishing at the rim or drawing two and hitting someone for a wide open 3. The problem is we have either Powell or Kleber catching this pass way too often instead of Wood. The shooting has been absolutely dreadful but it will come around imo. In the meantime the starting lineup should be Luka, Dinwiddie, Green, DFS, Wood. Come out the gates running the Luka/Wood P&R and make other teams defend and keep up. Wood should be on the floor for as many Luka minutes as possible. The advanced stats back this up. Kidd is being unnecessarily stubborn because he either never wanted CWood or hates the idea of this team having an offensive identity. Great coaches adapt to the roster they have. Carlisle ran the hell out of 3 guard lineups and Dirk yet somehow overachieved. This teams ceiling is still high but Kidd has to adapt.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - IamDougieFresh - 11-28-2022
https://twitter.com/Boweman55/status/1597328251403534336?s=20&t=7-UPPOlJ09PFZgkmF6krIw
RE: ROSTER TALK: Mavs have interest in Hayward? - sterlingmallory - 11-28-2022
(11-28-2022, 06:00 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: https://twitter.com/Boweman55/status/1597328251403534336?s=20&t=7-UPPOlJ09PFZgkmF6krIw
Maxi plays extremely well with all 3 of those guys as well. It's almost like Luka, Green, DFS, Maxi, and Wood should be the starting lineup or something.