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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: - dirkfansince1998 - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 04:40 AM)Mapka Wrote: By the way, we have full circled now. Talking about there being very good others and dump others and it's all MCs fault.
Not really. Just need to include the Mavs in the good/bad front office ranking and you realize why people want to talk about Cuban, Harrison, Kidd, Donnie, RC and other current or former Mavs decision makers.
If the Brunson signing was a terrible decision that only a bad franchise would make. What about some of the Mavs signings in the last 5-10 years? Or just this summer (McGee).
RE: ROSTER TALK: - omahen - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 04:40 AM)Mapka Wrote: It's not about his contract but about his role. The Knicks are in no state for that kind of player.
I don't agree. Knicks are very nicely set up for a trade with a bunch of assets. The team has a nice foundation, what they need is a superstar. And in order to attract that superstar, they need to show they have a nice foundation to become an immediate contender. As in principle attractive location, they can build through trades or free agency. Summer of 2023-24 they can look for a trade or have a lot of cap space again in 24-25.
I would clame, Knicks have been decently smart lately, accumulating assets for the right opportunity. Of course they still need to make that opportunity happen.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mapka - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 04:51 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not really. Just need to include the Mavs in the good/bad front office ranking and you realize why people want to talk about Cuban, Harrison, Kidd, Donnie, RC and other current or former Mavs decision makers.
If the Brunson signing was a terrible decision that only a bad franchise would make. What about some of the Mavs signings in the last 5-10 years? Or just this summer (McGee).
We did our fair share of bad moves, but most of them made at least sense in one way or the other.
Really bad in my sight were:
- not extending Brunson and DFS immediately.
- The Seth/JRich trade.
There's for sure something I missed but that's just one really bad fuckup.
I would rank us as mostly not dumb but unfortunate.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 04:10 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs never tanked. They tried to win with a completly broken roster and wasted assets and salary cap to go after guys like Barnes, Matthews and DAJ. Taking themself out of the race for better lottery odds. Realizing that your team is shit halfway through the season isn´t tanking.
And even then, RC coached to win key games down the stretch of Luka's rookie year that cost the Mavs a shot at Zion and Ja. Those three wins (OKC, MEM, & PHX) were an absolute disaster from a team building standpoint.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - WillE - 11-15-2022
https://hoopshype.com/lists/team-asset-rankings-which-franchises-have-the-most-valuable-pieces/
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mapka - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 08:12 AM)Kammrath Wrote: And even then, RC coached to win key games down the stretch of Luka's rookie year that cost the Mavs a shot at Zion and Ja. Those three wins (OKC, MEM, & PHX) were an absolute disaster from a team building standpoint.
The lottery always f*cks us, so why care for the odds? Like in 11% to 13% ..
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 08:16 AM)Mapka Wrote: The lottery always f*cks us, so why care for the odds? Like in 11% to 13% ..
The Mavs had a chance for 42.1% chance of a top 4 pick (keep the pick) but instead they got a 26% chance. Epic mismanagement of the last 10 games of the season.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mapka - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 08:27 AM)Kammrath Wrote: The Mavs had a chance for 42.1% chance of a top 4 pick (keep the pick) but instead they got a 26% chance. Epic mismanagement of the last 10 games of the season.
Just for me to understand: how do you end up with that numbers.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 10:27 AM)Mapka Wrote: Just for me to understand: how do you end up with that numbers.
Those were the lottery odds in 2018-2019 for the way the records ended (26% for DAL) and the 42% is the odds they could have had that year if they would have lost those three games I mentioned.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 05:02 AM)Mapka Wrote: We did our fair share of bad moves, but most of them made at least sense in one way or the other.
Really bad in my sight were:
- not extending Brunson and DFS immediately.
- The Seth/JRich trade.
There's for sure something I missed but that's just one really bad fuckup.
I would rank us as mostly not dumb but unfortunate.
Lets look at just the last 2 offseasons with Nico:
Had 34 mil in cap space and instead decided to run it back making the following moves:
- Sign Timmy to a contract that is clearly negative right now
- Sign Bullock to MLE (so far that has looked good for half a season)
- Sign Boban to more than min (joke)
- Sign Brown to more than min (fail)
- keep WCS with team option (fail)
They failed to sign Brunson to an extension which turned out to be a disaster of a decision
They failed to trade KP during offseason when they could potentially have replaced him with cap space, presumably to raise his trade value. That failed as they had to send him out for two negative contracts and draft capital.
Then this offseason their two biggest free agent moves were:
- Let Brunson walk
- Sign McGee to 3/17 (complete fail)
That is a lot of failures (many of them being immediately identified as such by this board) in just two years. Its hard to find anything they did right since the Luka/Brunson draft. The original Dorian and Maxi extensions. The Wood trade. Maybe a few other, but the failures have way outdone the successes.
Free agency has been a complete disaster (as always with this organization). Its why I can't imagine anyone wanting to go plan powder.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - dynamicalVoid - 11-15-2022
Is the Seth Curry trade that big of a deal. I watched him recently and he was worse than a traffic cone on defense.
Just seems like the guy is a reg season producer...maybe for a couple of minutes in Playoffs you can throw him in with a defensive lineup and hope he gets some looks from 3...but is he really that coveted by yall when he seems like liability on defense?
RE: ROSTER TALK: - omahen - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 10:36 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Is the Seth Curry trade that big of a deal. I watched him recently and he was worse than a traffic cone on defense.
I think trading him was the right move. Mavs don't have enough defense even without him. Unfortunatelly the target wasn't, although it looked like the right move.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 10:36 AM)mvossman Wrote: Lets look at just the last 2 offseasons with Nico and Kidd as the shadow GM
FIFY
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mapka - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 10:36 AM)mvossman Wrote: Lets look at just the last 2 offseasons with Nico:
Had 34 mil in cap space and instead decided to run it back making the following moves:
- Sign Timmy to a contract that is clearly negative right now
- Sign Bullock to MLE (so far that has looked good for half a season)
- Sign Boban to more than min (joke)
- Sign Brown to more than min (fail)
- keep WCS with team option (fail)
They failed to sign Brunson to an extension which turned out to be a disaster of a decision
They failed to trade KP during offseason when they could potentially have replaced him with cap space, presumably to raise his trade value. That failed as they had to send him out for two negative contracts and draft capital.
Then this offseason their two biggest free agent moves were:
- Let Brunson walk
- Sign McGee to 3/17 (complete fail)
That is a lot of failures (many of them being immediately identified as such by this board) in just two years. Its hard to find anything they did right since the Luka/Brunson draft. The original Dorian and Maxi extensions. The Wood trade. Maybe a few other, but the failures have way outdone the successes.
Free agency has been a complete disaster (as always with this organization). Its why I can't imagine anyone wanting to go plan powder.
THJ was a must that time, there wasn’t much else to go after (other than Dinwiddie) and the space would vanish that way or another.
Boban/Brown/WCS were prayers/tradefodder and ended exactly there.
McGee isn't great, but you could see what they want with him.
It's all the Brunson thing to me.
(11-15-2022, 10:51 AM)omahen Wrote: I think trading him was the right move. Mavs don't have enough defense even without him. Unfortunatelly the target wasn't, although it looked like the right move.
Never trade for a player discarded by the Heat or Spurs. (GSW and the Raps are near that status too).
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 11:11 AM)Mapka Wrote: THJ was a must that time, there wasn’t much else to go after (other than Dinwiddie) and the space would vanish that way or another.
Boban/Brown/WCS were prayers/tradefodder and ended exactly there.
McGee isn't great, but you could see what they want with him.
It's all the Brunson thing to me.
Disagree on THJ being a must. There were plenty of other options. Dinwiddie is clearly a better player and better fit than Timmy. I had mixed feelings on this, but DeRozen was also an option. Lauri Markkanen wanted to be here and would have been a better fit than Timmy. There were also several smaller contracts that would have been interesting: Oubre, Holmes, Jackson, Burks, Green, Caruso, ... Not all of those would have panned out, but we had 34 million in cap space and Bullock is the only player we acquired/retained in free agency that had any real contribution to the team last year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mapka - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 11:35 AM)mvossman Wrote: Disagree on THJ being a must. There were plenty of other options. Dinwiddie is clearly a better player and better fit than Timmy. I had mixed feelings on this, but DeRozen was also an option. Lauri Markkanen wanted to be here and would have been a better fit than Timmy. There were also several smaller contracts that would have been interesting: Oubre, Holmes, Jackson, Burks, Green, Caruso, ... Not all of those would have panned out, but we had 34 million in cap space and Bullock is the only player we acquired/retained in free agency that had any real contribution to the team last year.
Din was back fresh from a ACL and nobody knew what he would look like ( he could easyly been as bad here as in Washington). He was on my short list tough.
Did you see what money DeRozan got?
Lauri was not available to us.
We could have had Timmy and Caruso, whom I like. The others are on my Vet-min/Bi-Anual/TMLE or don´t touch-list.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Chicagojk - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 10:36 AM)mvossman Wrote: Lets look at just the last 2 offseasons with Nico:
Had 34 mil in cap space and instead decided to run it back making the following moves:
- Sign Timmy to a contract that is clearly negative right now
- Sign Bullock to MLE (so far that has looked good for half a season)
- Sign Boban to more than min (joke)
- Sign Brown to more than min (fail)
- keep WCS with team option (fail)
They failed to sign Brunson to an extension which turned out to be a disaster of a decision
They failed to trade KP during offseason when they could potentially have replaced him with cap space, presumably to raise his trade value. That failed as they had to send him out for two negative contracts and draft capital.
Then this offseason their two biggest free agent moves were:
- Let Brunson walk
- Sign McGee to 3/17 (complete fail)
That is a lot of failures (many of them being immediately identified as such by this board) in just two years. Its hard to find anything they did right since the Luka/Brunson draft. The original Dorian and Maxi extensions. The Wood trade. Maybe a few other, but the failures have way outdone the successes.
Free agency has been a complete disaster (as always with this organization). Its why I can't imagine anyone wanting to go plan powder.
Well that is depressing.
While their results on the floor last year gave them a passing grade, that does not paint a pretty picture. But I agree, the creativity, decisions (for the most part), and execution have all been lacking.
For awhile I have been in prove it to me mode. I was pretty hard on the Bullock signing, but he played well as the year went on. But I still have my defenses up if a Cuban run organization will ever be top tier and if Nico is the right person to build a team to his vision. I try to be fair and admit when I am wrong, but these next 18 months will be maybe the most important time for the franchise.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 12:20 PM)Mapka Wrote: Din was back fresh from a ACL and nobody knew what he would look like ( he could easyly been as bad here as in Washington). He was on my short list tough.
Did you see what money DeRozan got?
Lauri was not available to us.
We could have had Timmy and Caruso, whom I like. The others are on my Vet-min/Bi-Anual/TMLE or don´t touch-list.
DeRozan turned out to be worth more than that contract in his first year, but your right, I would have pooped myself if we signed him to that contract (and it may not have worked nearly as well here).
I'm not sure if we could have gotten Laurie or not. We were low on assets to send out.
Most of the guys on your don't touch list are better assets right now on their contracts than Timmy is on his.
This FO decided to pay Timmy 17 a year but not Brunson 12 a year.
Part of the reason this FO did not sign Dragic (potentially) was they needed minutes for Timmy and the kids. I would rather have Dragic than Timmy right now and we could have had him for the min.
I'm struggling to see how we could have done worse with 34 mil than Timmy/Bullock/Boban/Brown/WCS.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 12:45 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Well that is depressing.
While their results on the floor last year gave them a passing grade, that does not paint a pretty picture. But I agree, the creativity, decisions (for the most part), and execution have all been lacking.
For awhile I have been in prove it to me mode. I was pretty hard on the Bullock signing, but he played well as the year went on. But I still have my defenses up if a Cuban run organization will ever be top tier and if Nico is the right person to build a team to his vision. I try to be fair and admit when I am wrong, but these next 18 months will be maybe the most important time for the franchise.
I think they are going to need to bring in some significant 2 way talent, and the only way to do that is to send out the picks. Those moves will determine whether this team can become a contender, or we are trading Luka for a bushel of picks and going full tank.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - DallasMaverick - 11-15-2022
(11-15-2022, 10:51 AM)omahen Wrote: I think trading him was the right move. Mavs don't have enough defense even without him. Unfortunatelly the target wasn't, although it looked like the right move.
Yes, if you're looking for more shot creation, Josh Richardson brings more than Seth Curry.