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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 11:44 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Absolutely not.
I get what youre saying but I firmly oppose giving THJ shots over Green unless we are in a hole and need some microwave offense and hope THJ is on that night.
Green is timid on the offensive end. The only way to break that is by giving him minutes and letting him shoot. You are stunting him by putting him in lineups with THJ because THJ will shoot every shot. Green needs to break his lack of confidence and get in a rhythm...and I think we are starting to see that...taking away minutes or shot opportunities from Green is stunting him. The time to invest in Green is now. THJ can take a backseat.
Why waste any more time investing in THJ?
We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it makes sense to give up on player with three more years on his contract, coming back from injury and hasn't played a game since January based on a 7 game sample. That seems short sighted and a terrible management of assets. But to each his own.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Scott41theMavs - 11-03-2022
I said this a few minutes earlier in the game thread and I'll say it again: THJ/Bertans/McGee for WB.
Gets us out of our three worst contracts without hurting our rotation. WB wouldn't hurt a playoff run as the fourth option. Lots of $$$ to re-sign Wood in the off-season and perhaps we even have our full MLE. To spend on a real player this time.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:23 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I said this a few minutes earlier in the game thread and I'll say it again: THJ/Bertans/McGee for WB.
Gets us out of our three worst contracts without hurting our rotation. WB wouldn't hurt a playoff run as the fourth option. Lots of $$$ to re-sign Wood in the off-season and perhaps we even have our full MLE. To spend on a real player this time.
There is no way LA pulls that trigger. Timmy and Bertans are not going to save their season and they don't want to be tied down to that much future salary. You would have better luck sending some portion of that package out for Simmons.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Scott41theMavs - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:26 PM)mvossman Wrote: There is no way LA pulls that trigger. Timmy and Bertans are not going to save their season and they don't want to be tied down to that much future salary. You would have better luck sending some portion of that package out for Simmons.
No Simmons. Too long and too big of a contract.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 11-03-2022
I think people are closing the book on Hardaway too quickly. Dude didn't play for an entire year, and on top of that he missed out on all of the first year, new system chemistry that developed during his absence. I don't know if he'll ever get back to Carlisle's Hardaway, but I'm quite confident he'll work his way back to something much better than how he's looked during these first 7 games.
He's probably going to get traded, but to my thinking that's because he's a bit overqualified for the role he has here right now (when he's in rhythm, playing well).
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:27 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: No Simmons. Too long and too big of a contract.
Yep. That's what LA is saying about Timmy and Bertans.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Chicagojk - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think people are closing the book on Hardaway too quickly. Dude didn't play for an entire year, and on top of that he missed out on all of the first year, new system chemistry that developed during his absence. I don't know if he'll ever get back to Carlisle's Hardaway, but I'm quite confident he'll work his way back to something much better than how he's looked during these first 7 games.
He's probably going to get traded, but to my thinking that's because he's a bit overqualified for the role he has here right now (when he's in rhythm, playing well).
Yes, the fit may be bit awkward but that doesn't mean it can't work out. We need it to work out. He is probably here for the full year and if he is not productive here it will be that much more harder to move him down the road. So we will need to live with the defensive lapses at times and the 1-10 shooting nights. Hopefully that goes with 37-39 three point shooting percentages and not 30-32 percentages.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Scott41theMavs - 11-03-2022
Until they make that trade for WB, they need to start Timmy in place of SD, since he plays better as a starter and with Luka. Raise that trade value, and maybe LAL does pull that trigger. Then you can replace THJ with Green in the starting lineup, and continue to have SD cook on opposing benches while Luka sits.
Nico's biggest job as GM is to shed future salary to make a Wood re-signing realistic. If he can get rid of the three overpaid stooges (THJ, Bertans, and McGee) without sending firsts and other player assets like Green and perhaps even Hardy, GM of the year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:33 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: since he plays better as a starter and with Luka.
In my mind, this is because he excels as a spot up catch and shoot guy, and because while he can do it (a little), he's less effective as a creator of shots. With Luka on the floor, everyone seems pretty clear about where they stack up in the pecking order, not to mention how many open shots are created playing off of Luka.
The same thing should be possible playing off of Dinwiddie and especially off of Wood's post ups, but for whatever reason THJ has been forcing things a bit. I don't know if that's him pressing, trying to prove he's important to the team, or something Kidd and staff are actually encouraging him to do, but it's painful to watch, especially given his current level of rust.
One thing Carlisle did that apparently Kidd has zero interest in doing is actually running plays that use off-ball screening to create open shot windows for Hardaway. In my view, he needs to be on a team interested in playing him that way. That's what got him this contract. If his role is going to be simply about waiting for his man to leave to help on the ball-handler and then hitting the open shot, well...that's helpful, but it's not really different than what's expected of Bullock, DFS or Kleber, so in that scenario he's definitely overpaid.
The difference between my take and most of those I read here is that I feel like there are probably quite a few teams who'd LOVE a chance to acquire a guy who can run around screens and get those shots off...they might want to wait until he proves he's rounding back into form, and they might not want to pay the price the Mavs want, but I don't think it's universally accepted that THJ is "trash" the way people talk around here. I still don't mind the contract a bit - just sucks that they gave it to him and didn't keep him in their design plans.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - dynamicalVoid - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:22 PM)mvossman Wrote: We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think it makes sense to give up on player with three more years on his contract, coming back from injury and hasn't played a game since January based on a 7 game sample. That seems short sighted and a terrible management of assets. But to each his own.
NOBODY WANTS THIS GUY!
There is no management issue with benching him. Only management issue is allowing him to launch freely. Youre hurting your "asset" by allowing such non-sense.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - dynamicalVoid - 11-03-2022
Really odd people are avoiding discussing the real issue here...its that Tim refuses to pass the ball.
Who would want someone in their lineup like that? Who wants to be on the court with someone like that?
Seems like you guys want to dance around the issue by bringing up his injury or the system...that has nothing to do with it. Its his refusal to pass the rock. Its a possession killer. Its a moral killer. It could lead to players checking out of defense.
Very very odd that anyone would want this guys on court behavior on their team and if so...playing heavy minutes or significant minutes. Its a huge problem.
I cant see any GM wanting this guy based on his on court behavior, his stats, his defense, his age, his skill set...and you want me to believe not playing him his hurting his value lol. I think not playing him will help his value.
To continue to let this guy have freedom to shoot without having to ever pass the ball is premeditated torture. THE GUY IS A SCRUB THAT THINKS HE IS CURRY
RE: ROSTER TALK: - omahen - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:33 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Nico's biggest job as GM is to shed future salary to make a Wood re-signing realistic. If he can get rid of the three overpaid stooges (THJ, Bertans, and McGee) without sending firsts and other player assets like Green and perhaps even Hardy, GM of the year.
"Your" GM of the year signed two of those contracts and traded for the third
RE: ROSTER TALK: - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Dude didn't play for an entire year, and on top of that he missed out on all of the first year, new system chemistry that developed during his absence. I don't know if he'll ever get back to Carlisle's Hardaway, but I'm quite confident he'll work his way back to something much better than how he's looked during these first 7 games.
I do think it's fair to point out that he played 42 games in this system last year so we're nearly 50 games into a system. I'm all for folks playing themselves back into form but in Hardaway's case, you can look through his career numbers and the two Carlisle years just jump off the page. I just think that what we've seen over the first 7 games is exactly who he was for years before he got here so I'm beginning to lower my expectations on his future contributions.
To your point, there may be a team out there who views him as a valuable shooter but there are other times I think that list of teams starts and ends with Indiana.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - omahen - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 12:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't think it's universally accepted that THJ is "trash" the way people talk around here. I still don't mind the contract a bit - just sucks that they gave it to him and didn't keep him in their design plans.
THJ has proven he can be a good player in the right role. Mavs are currently not playing him in one, neither they did last year before he got injured. Problem with THJ in Mavs system is that you need three good defenders on the floor with him, as the fifth member for most of the time will be Luka. Since neither Wood nor SD are overly positive defenders and much more valuable on offense, THJ seems like redundant. However, might be that one of them will be easier to trade then THJ for that much needed 2-way guy. In that case, his fit might become better.
That 2-way guy will need shots, if we want anyone resemling a star. Luka might need to give up some. After him SD is taking second most shots at 13 pg, followed by Wood and THJ at 10 per game. The rest are picking up bread crumbs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - omahen - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 01:26 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: To your point, there may be a team out there who views him as a valuable shooter but there are other times I think that list of teams starts and ends with Indiana.
There are two other elite shooters around who got similar big contracts same year as THJ - Fournier and Robinson. I don't think any of the two has a positive value, while one could argue they are both better players in their roles as THJ is. Team in need for shooting could also look at Joe Harris. That is why I think it is not very likely THJ will be traded to someone who will see great value in him. That team will likely see the prize in our picks or they will be looking at different players/contracts Mavs have.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 01:33 PM)omahen Wrote: There are two other elite shooters around who got similar big contracts same year as THJ - Fournier and Robinson. I don't think any of the two has a positive value, while one could argue they are both better players in their roles as THJ is. Team in need for shooting could also look at Joe Harris. That is why I think it is not very likely THJ will be traded to someone who will see great value in him. That team will likely see the prize in our picks or they will be looking at different players/contracts Mavs have.
I believe Bertans was that same year or the one before as well.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 01:33 PM)omahen Wrote: There are two other elite shooters around who got similar big contracts same year as THJ - Fournier and Robinson. I don't think any of the two has a positive value, while one could argue they are both better players in their roles as THJ is. Team in need for shooting could also look at Joe Harris. That is why I think it is not very likely THJ will be traded to someone who will see great value in him. That team will likely see the prize in our picks or they will be looking at different players/contracts Mavs have.
There was another one in Norman Powell who got traded away that same season. I think all of them turned out to be overrated.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - omahen - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 01:46 PM)mvossman Wrote: There was another one in Norman Powell who got traded away that same season. I think all of them turned out to be overrated.
I think Powell is more than just a shooter. He has a really bad start of the season, but I don't think he just forgot how to shoot.
Beasley is another shooter on the list of probably available ones, and he looked way better than THJ yesterday.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 11-03-2022
(11-03-2022, 01:51 PM)omahen Wrote: I think Powell is more than just a shooter. He has a really bad start of the season, but I don't think he just forgot how to shoot.
Beasley is another shooter on the list of probably available ones, and he looked way better than THJ yesterday.
Its a spectrum. Timmy is more than just a shooter compared to Bertans or Robinson. Powell and Fournier are more than just a shooter compared to Timmy.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 11-03-2022
Great post KL. Totally agree about running more plays to get THJ good looks. I think I said that after game 1 or 2 and they’ve only run less for him since! Not ready to give up on Timmy yet. If only, as others have said to boost his value. But we also need his scoring. He has been a little better defensively even lately.