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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: - Chicagojk - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 10:43 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Im talking about 2-way as in Offense and Defense player...not the 16th chair 2way contract...but a player that plays offense and defense.
We dont need a 30M+ Jru Holliday...just decent hoopers on both ends of the floor. But I am told they are IMPOSSIBLE to find.
Got ya. My bad
Cato's last two paragraphs in his latest piece today in the Athletic.
But Saturday’s game did illustrate concerning trends that make you wonder if the decisions made this summer were wrong all along. The one-guard lineups don’t look to have the same juice as the two-guard ones. The role players haven’t supplemented those groups well at all. The defense has regressed despite the departure of an undersized guard and the addition of a nominal shot-blocker. Wood’s addition to the team has already invoked odd drama just five games into the season. These were all decisions made by the team this summer, ones that Kidd and Harrison had autonomy to decide upon.
Perhaps the season turns around Sunday, and a five-game start that includes two blown double-digit leads and a loss to a pelicans team missing three of its four best players is forgotten. But what if the team’s decision-makers missed what really made last season’s squad successful? After Saturday’s miserable defeat to the Thunder, there’s at least reason to consider that possibility.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 10:22 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: Too bad 2-way players are IMPOSSIBLE to find even though every other teams seems to find them.
I would love to have a decent young or in prime 2-way guy on our team that was pass first but could score/create if needed.
This team needs offense...and not the ball hogging kind of offense with no defense THJ brings.
You were told they were hard to find, and you came back with somebody 3 years ago (who does not really even fit the description).
If they are not hard to find (nobody said "impossible" so I don't know why its in all caps) then how about some current examples that we have any reasonable way to acquire?
Also, in the small sample of 5 games this team is 2nd in offense (tenth of a point out of first) and middle of the pack in defense. I'm not sure our focus should be offense?
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 10:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: These were all decisions made by the team this summer, ones that Kidd and Harrison had autonomy to decide upon.
Wow. Cato reporting that Cuban was not interfering this summer with these decisions. Pretty significant.
I sure hope Nico doesn't let Kidd be the defacto GM, this is not going to end well if he does.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 10-30-2022
Time to give Bullock's minutes to Green. Bullock is a spare. Green has shown incredible improvement.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - sefant - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 10:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The one-guard lineups don’t look to have the same juice as the two-guard ones.
That is a baffling statement, when Luka/SD are the worst duo by net rating that played 10 min plus, because the defense is really not that good. And neither are great off the ball threats. Its a similar Luka/Brunson dynamic so far. Both are on "fire" without the other.
Luka / SD -12
Luka / no SD +23
SD / no Luka +12.8
If you wanna make decisions on the current line up data & advanced stats, the most eye popping things raising questions.
- Are Green and Wood minutes way too low? Advanced stats have them all as the 2nd and 3rd best player on the team
- Is SD the right starter next to Luka?
- What lineups combos can work well with Luka/Wood?
- Do certain lineups have enough defense? 22th on DefRtg after 5 games, while being 2nd on offense
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 03:43 PM)sefant Wrote: What lineups combos can work well with Luka/Wood?
THAT is what Kidd should have been doing in the first 10 games, figuring out how to make successful lineups with his two best players.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - SwisherPrice - 10-30-2022
Minutes per game after 5 games:
Luka - 36.6
DFS - 35.0
Bullock - 33.6
^All career highs. All for a 2-3 record with only wins against teams playing on a B2B. But I expect them to play close to 40 again tonight
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 03:47 PM)Kammrath Wrote: THAT is what Kidd should have been doing in the first 10 games, figuring out how to make successful lineups with his two best players.
Agreed.
I was supportive of bringing Wood off the bench to start the season for all the reasons @"F Gump" illustrated over the past weeks. I bought all of that.
But, either Wood has started the season on the mother of all hot streaks or he's CLEARLY more offensively talented than anyone on this team but Luka...more so than most NBA players, frankly. Seeing that, I'd say it's past time to rethink whatever strategy is limiting his court time.
I may lose you here, @"Kammrath", but I'm slightly annoyed by Kidd's general attitude towards offense. He seems to believe that as long as the defense is top 5 or 10 or whatever, the team will be fine. I have a few problems with that:
1) The defense has been WORSE than it was to start off last year, so far, despite all of the lip service and choices being made to support it.
2) I think that's kind of predictable, because in my long years of watching the league I've noticed that time and time again teams who feel good about how things are going on offense tend to try much, much harder on defense.
3) The offensive plan seems to be "give the ball to Luka, set a pick for him to get the matchup he likes and space the floor." That's great at times, but not nearly as reliable as the Mavs seem to think. Why would a bunch of players who never get to touch the ball want to play defense? These guys are human beings.
4) To efficiently run a more sophisticated, beautiful offense that takes advantage of players' strengths, you have to work on it diligently with practice time. I assume this is being addressed, but the utter one-sidedness of the coach's attitude calls that common sense assumption into question a bit, for me.
5) Even if, after all of the above, you do somehow have a top 5 defense...this isn't the NFL. A great defense WILL win you a championship, but ONLY if your offense is good enough to make you one of the top 10 teams.
Bottom line, for me: Make Luka/Wood your starting point and go from there. If you have to win games 130-117 for a while, trying to teach this new version of the team how important defense is, so be it. Personally, I would feel like they were closer to success going that route than with what they're trying to do right now.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - WildArkieBoy - 10-30-2022
Maybe if Wood apologizes for the mean things he said about JKidd's mother.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - dirkfansince1998 - 10-30-2022
I don´t think it is a Mavs only thing but it really feels like a players reputation is more important than his performance. In other sports coaches are more likely to change things. In the NBA it takes ages for veteran players to lose their spots in the rotation. Bullock and McGee will get plently of opportunties no matter how bad they play. Whereas a guy that isn´t as high in the veteran hierachy can have a good game and still end up on the bench for the next couple of weeks.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Kammrath - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 04:39 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Bottom line, for me: Make Luka/Wood your starting point and go from there. If you have to win games 130-117 for a while while you teach this new version of the team how important defense is, so be it. Personally, I would feel like they were closer to success going that route than with what they're trying to do right now.
100% agree.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 03:47 PM)Kammrath Wrote: THAT is what Kidd should have been doing in the first 10 games, figuring out how to make successful lineups with his two best players.
Spot on. Kidd is screwing this up. Clearly Wood is our 2nd best player. Start Wood with the 3 remaining spots open for tweaking around your best 2 players. It's like Kidd is trying to be too cute. He's alienating Wood. Did he do this shit in NJ or Mil? I'd love to see how this starting lineup would work...
PG - Luka
SG - Dinwiddie
SF - DFS
PF - Wood
C - Powell
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 10-30-2022
(10-30-2022, 08:41 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Spot on. Kidd is screwing this up. Clearly Wood is our 2nd best player. Start Wood with the 3 remaining spots open for tweaking around your best 2 players. It's like Kidd is trying to be too cute. He's alienating Wood. Did he do this shit in NJ or Mil? I'd love to see how this starting lineup would work...
PG - Luka
SG - Dinwiddie
SF - DFS
PF - Wood
C - Powell
I feel like that lineup is going to really struggle defensively. I'm not sure Luka/Wood/Din can be on the court at the same time without compromising the defense, and I don't see Powell changing that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 10-31-2022
Brace yourself, Avery-Lite has spoken:
Asked how strongly he is committed to McGee as the starter, Kidd said, “Strong.”
“When you look at the rotation today, we’re going to give him a chance. He’s going to play. He’s going to get into the swing of things and we believe in him.”
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Jym - 10-31-2022
(10-31-2022, 01:51 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Brace yourself, Avery-Lite has spoken:
Asked how strongly he is committed to McGee as the starter, Kidd said, “Strong.”
“When you look at the rotation today, we’re going to give him a chance. He’s going to play. He’s going to get into the swing of things and we believe in him.”
Inb4 Dwight starts taking the majority of Wood's minutes
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 10-31-2022
(10-30-2022, 10:05 PM)mvossman Wrote: I feel like that lineup is going to really struggle defensively. I'm not sure Luka/Wood/Din can be on the court at the same time without compromising the defense, and I don't see Powell changing that.
I don't know. Powell and DFS may be enough to scheme some team defense around. I just think you put your best players out there and make it happen. Wood is clearly the 2nd best. Dinwiddie is our 3rd. Din had great numbers against SGs last year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Smitty - 10-31-2022
I hope this arbitrary 10 game sample really means something and Kidd starts:
Playing Green more than Bullock
Never playing McGee again
Play Wood more than 25 minutes
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 10-31-2022
(10-31-2022, 01:51 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Brace yourself, Avery-Lite has spoken:
Asked how strongly he is committed to McGee as the starter, Kidd said, “Strong.”
“When you look at the rotation today, we’re going to give him a chance. He’s going to play. He’s going to get into the swing of things and we believe in him.”
I mean, at this point all we can do is hope he's right. Dude has a three-year deal, for crying out loud.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mavs2021 - 10-31-2022
(10-31-2022, 01:51 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Brace yourself, Avery-Lite has spoken:
Asked how strongly he is committed to McGee as the starter, Kidd said, “Strong.”
“When you look at the rotation today, we’re going to give him a chance. He’s going to play. He’s going to get into the swing of things and we believe in him.”
I seriously cannot comprehend how dumb this franchise is. You know when you say something like that? When your center is 22/23/24 years old like Hartenstein or Jalen Smith. Only the Mavs try to build/coach up a 35 year old.
5 years onwards and we re-visit the whole Dalembert/Noel garbage with McGee/Wood.
You can already add McGee to that never-ending list of NBA players that finish their career with the Mavs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 10-31-2022
Levert seems like a place holder in Cleveland.
And would soon to lose his starting role once Garland gets back.
And he doesn't even fit the starting role of SF to begin with.
BUT.. he just had a nice 40+ point game though, so I wonder if Cleveland will hold on to him and let the dude expire.
THJ+Bullock for Levert and Okoro?
Either THJ or Bullock fits more as an SF rather than Levert who's natural position is SG. Allows Cleveland to solidify the SF position in the next 2 years. The prize here isn't necessarily THJ, but it's more of Bullock for the Cavs all the while getting rid of Okoro. THJ might also be of use to Cleveland, as Osman isn't exactly lighting it up for the Cavs.
Mavs would lose Bullock, and Okoro doesn't look like someone who can spread the floor, he is basically the cost of getting Levert. But Levert is a playmaker. He is like SD with more length. Enables the Mavs to play the 3 guard lineup, and also would allow DFS to slide down and have Josh as the primary backup at SF.
Mavs would be losing 2 players, but the impact of a 3rd playmaker in this lineup will be well worth it. With Levert's length, would possibly be an upgrade over the Luka-SD-JB trio. If anything else, and Levert doesn't re-sign, at the very least, THJ's contract wouldn't be there next season.
From Bleacher Report:
- Playing Caris LeVert at the 3 will have its defensive (and probably offensive) limitations once Darius Garland (eyelid laceration) is ready to rock. Trading for Donovan Mitchell drained Cleveland's draft-pick stash, but it's not without assets. LeVert's expiring contract can be a quality salary anchor if the Cavs don't view him as part of the bigger picture. Cleveland may not have the juice for targets like Gary Trent Jr. and Harrison Barnes(?), but someone in the realm of Josh Richardson, Joe Harris or Cody Martin might be up their alley.