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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-10-2022
(07-09-2022, 11:52 PM)Jommybone Wrote: Except that they did last year, no?
Why do you say that? Because they traded for SD? In retrospect that seems like a move they did because they knew they might lose JB, not because they had a lack of ball handlers.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Chicagojk - 07-10-2022
The Mavs really need protection by adding another creator. I don't think you can count on Dinwiddie staying healthy. He has a history with injuries. Same thing with Luka. I think you can expect at least 10 games missed. It would be malpractice by this front office not to have another reliable creator on the roster. Maybe it is a veteran on a minimum, but he better be able to produce when needed.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - HoosierDaddyKid - 07-10-2022
(07-09-2022, 10:30 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: I think there has always been like 10 Drummond hater responses for every Drummond suggestion.
Drummond is a journeyman center now, that's a "one trick pony" He's one of the best rebounders ever, just in 10 years of service time. He's not a great rim protector and he's never developed a offensive game to keep the defense honest besides lobs and putbacks. His offensve rebounds give you extra possesions, but other than that, his stats are empty and don't tend to lead to winning.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 08:16 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The Mavs really need protection by adding another creator. I don't think you can count on Dinwiddie staying healthy. He has a history with injuries. Same thing with Luka. I think you can expect at least 10 games missed. It would be malpractice by this front office not to have another reliable creator on the roster. Maybe it is a veteran on a minimum, but he better be able to produce when needed.
True, and I'm beginning to think the FO has made a second mistake outside of Brunson. Given what we know right now, the FO let Dragic sign for the minimum elsewhere. My guess is that the Mavs fully expected a S&T off the Brunson deal and that's where they would add an upgrade. I now suspect that has fallen through, and they are going to have to look elsewhere at a higher price. But Dragic is now off the table.
We won't know of course for a while, but if there is no S&T, no added playmaker, and no Dragic, it's hard to imagine that "plan B" wasn't just as big a failure as "plan A".
Again, we will have to wait and see how that roster spot gets filled before the official grousing begins.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - SleepingHero - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 05:31 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I don´t think there is any scenario where McGee is going to win the matchup against an average NBA stretch big. He won´t be able to dictate the matchup and play them off the floor. It´s the other way around.
I think the Suns realized the same. Decision to keep Biyombo on a vet min deal instead of paying McGee was a no brainer.
I think you're misunderstanding how much I think McGee will be of importance to the overall rotation. He is simply replacing Dwight Powell for 10 minutes. McGee has shown he can be much more impactful than Powell can in those 10 minutes. He also costs half as much as Powell.
I trust McGee to play 10 minutes per game in a playoff game. He's shown he can do it despite his lowlights being the starter for the Lakers en route to their championship. That same Lakers team had Kidd and Dudley on it. Suns are about to lose their starting center, and just lost their backup center, I really don't think they're happy their 3rd stringer just moved up a couple of slots.
As to Suns fans lamenting the choice to bench him, I can pull up the RealGM/Reddit threads and pick out the comments that I saw during the playoffs, but we both know that doesn't really matter and that the Suns were desperate to close out the Mavs. Whether or not Monty made the correct choice, you brought up some good points for the affirmative, and truthfully the Mavs beat the Suns by their defensive strategy, not center play. But the Mavs still 4-1'd them from game 3 on. How much did the benching of McGee have on that outcome? Probably nothing.
What I do think matters is that when the McGee signing was announced, the general opinion by Suns fans I saw on various online forums was that they lost a good player and they're sad to see him go (and he also apparently turned down more money from MIL to go to DAL??). I also think the main benefit of McGee is like you said,to reduce the load of Maxi and Wood while also providing productive minutes while he's out there.
Also what other centers were out there that are younger/better at defending the post that also would've signed for TP-MLE money? By my count there is maybe 1 viable option that fits that criteria.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ItsGoTime - 07-10-2022
He just needs to play long enough to not let the opposing C have a career night against us.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Branduil - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 08:56 AM)Winter Wrote: True, and I'm beginning to think the FO has made a second mistake outside of Brunson. Given what we know right now, the FO let Dragic sign for the minimum elsewhere. My guess is that the Mavs fully expected a S&T off the Brunson deal and that's where they would add an upgrade. I now suspect that has fallen through, and they are going to have to look elsewhere at a higher price. But Dragic is now off the table.
We won't know of course for a while, but if there is no S&T, no added playmaker, and no Dragic, it's hard to imagine that "plan B" wasn't just as big a failure as "plan A".
Again, we will have to wait and see how that roster spot gets filled before the official grousing begins.
Sounds like a disturbingly likely series of events under Cuban.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 10:56 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: I think you're misunderstanding how much I think McGee will be of importance to the overall rotation. He is simply replacing Dwight Powell for 10 minutes. McGee has shown he can be much more impactful than Powell can in those 10 minutes. He also costs half as much as Powell.
I trust McGee to play 10 minutes per game in a playoff game. He's shown he can do it despite his lowlights being the starter for the Lakers en route to their championship. That same Lakers team had Kidd and Dudley on it. Suns are about to lose their starting center, and just lost their backup center, I really don't think they're happy their 3rd stringer just moved up a couple of slots.
As to Suns fans lamenting the choice to bench him, I can pull up the RealGM/Reddit threads and pick out the comments that I saw during the playoffs, but we both know that doesn't really matter and that the Suns were desperate to close out the Mavs. Whether or not Monty made the correct choice, you brought up some good points for the affirmative, and truthfully the Mavs beat the Suns by their defensive strategy, not center play. But the Mavs still 4-1'd them from game 3 on. How much did the benching of McGee have on that outcome? Probably nothing.
What I do think matters is that when the McGee signing was announced, the general opinion by Suns fans I saw on various online forums was that they lost a good player and they're sad to see him go (and he also apparently turned down more money from MIL to go to DAL??). I also think the main benefit of McGee is like you said,to reduce the load of Maxi and Wood while also providing productive minutes while he's out there.
Also what other centers were out there that are younger/better at defending the post that also would've signed for TP-MLE money? By my count there is maybe 1 viable option that fits that criteria.
McGee started the playoffs as a 10 minutes per game guy but finished them as a DNP CD. At some point he becomes unplayable. We can argue that it is the same case for Powell but unless Powell is outgoing the Mavs just doubled down on bigs that won´t be a part of the rotation when it matters most.
The Suns could lose their starting center. They could also add Durant. In the big picture McGee had no value for them. They found a cheaper option that can play the same kind of role for the vet min. In my opinion a slightly better option.
As far as Suns fans complaining. I am not suprised that some of them argued in favor of McGee (just like some Mavs fans that asked for Boban minutes) but it´s probably at the end of the list of things that went wrong in the playoffs. And as mentioned. Looking at the small sample size of the playoff series they looked a lot better in the Biyombo minutes.
Looking at the center markets and options for the Mavs. It looks like Kidd and Nico wanted a big body that can rebound and protect the rim. Personally I think the addition of Wood was enough to round out the bigmen rotation. With the knowledge that Brunson is going to leave and with another clearly formulated need for another wing I would have prefered to use the taxMLE on another position.
I am simply not as high on McGee as others and think that his skill set was/is availabe for less money. Whiteside and Howard are still unsigned. Drummond signed for less. Maybe you and others prefer McGee over the mentioned players. For me they are all in the same category. Personally I don´t want any of them on the roster but if I had to choose McGee wouldn´t even be my first choice.
I would be a lot happier with the McGee deal if they find a way to turn Powell into a wing or another playmaker. Can only hope that a deal like this is in the making.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-10-2022
This is all so depressing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 12:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is all so depressing.
![[Image: 200.gif]](https://media3.giphy.com/media/GoT50QNVUdoyI/200.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 12:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is all so depressing.
Cuban's drug company has a good deal on Prozac!
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Jommybone - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 07:29 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Why do you say that? Because they traded for SD? In retrospect that seems like a move they did because they knew they might lose JB, not because they had a lack of ball handlers.
I don’t share your retrospective. After the trade, they told us they needed another rotation creator and wanted 2 on the court at all times. They then kept 2 on the court at all times. And it worked famously, decentralizing the offensive attack and keeping opponents’ defenses honest. So I believe them.
But going into the season? They had only Luka, Jalen, and Trey able to play that role. Now? They have only Luka, Spencer, and Jaden.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - DanSchwartzgan - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 05:31 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I know that they complained about Ayton but McGee was simply played off the floor.
Game 1
4pts 3reb 2 fouls in 14 minutes, -2 in a 7pts win
Game 2
6pts 2reb 3blk 5 fouls in 9 minutes, -3 in a 20pts win
Game 3
8pts 7reb 2 fouls in 14 minutes, -8 in a 9pts loss
To me it looks like the Suns did the RC style evaluation and realized that the Mavs outscored them in the McGee minutes. Made the necessary adjustment in the following games. Main problem being McGee`s inability to defend in space.
This flagrant abuse of small sample size +/- is probably making even Kamm blush
McGee played with bench guys. You know, defensive studs like Cam Payne, Cam Johnson and Shamet. Those three were -6.6, -8.3 and -10.8 for the playoffs compared to McGee's -4.1, but it was all McGee's fault? The D-Ratings in the playoffs for those three were 117, 119 and 119 compared to 112 for McGee, but it was him who got "played off the floor".
McGee had by far the best D-Rating of any Sun regular at 102 during the season (in which the Suns were the #3 ranked D at 107.3). I think the concerns over McGee's D are exaggerated. I'd be much more worried about how we are going to guard Jokic, Towns or Valanciunas inside if we didn't have him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Jommybone - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 12:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: This flagrant abuse of small sample size +/- is probably making even Kamm blush
McGee played with bench guys. You know, defensive studs like Cam Payne, Cam Johnson and Shamet. Those three were -6.6, -8.3 and -10.8 for the playoffs compared to McGee's -4.1, but it was all McGee's fault? The D-Ratings in the playoffs for those three were 117, 119 and 119 compared to 112 for McGee, but it was him who got "played off the floor".
McGee had by far the best D-Rating of any Sun regular at 102 during the season (in which the Suns were the #3 ranked D at 107.3). I think the concerns over McGee's D are exaggerated. I'd be much more worried about how we are going to guard Jokic, Towns or Valanciunas inside if we didn't have him.
Like this post a lot except for lumping in Landry Shamet with the defenseless Phoenix bench mob. That dude can defend just fine. Don’t remember him in the series well enough to say he did defend. But he is a capable defender. If he were here, he’d get burn.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 12:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: This flagrant abuse of small sample size +/- is probably making even Kamm blush
![[Image: ice-cube-waitwhat.gif]](https://c.tenor.com/VJccn-HCimkAAAAM/ice-cube-waitwhat.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 12:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: This flagrant abuse of small sample size +/- is probably making even Kamm blush
McGee played with bench guys. You know, defensive studs like Cam Payne, Cam Johnson and Shamet. Those three were -6.6, -8.3 and -10.8 for the playoffs compared to McGee's -4.1, but it was all McGee's fault? The D-Ratings in the playoffs for those three were 117, 119 and 119 compared to 112 for McGee, but it was him who got "played off the floor".
McGee had by far the best D-Rating of any Sun regular at 102 during the season (in which the Suns were the #3 ranked D at 107.3). I think the concerns over McGee's D are exaggerated. I'd be much more worried about how we are going to guard Jokic, Towns or Valanciunas inside if we didn't have him.
@"SleepingHero" made the case that McGee destroyed the Mavs in the first three games. I just provided the numbers for those games. And I absolutely think that he was played off the floor. Suns coaching staff thought the same and replaced him with Biyombo (who had better numbers with the bench unit).
Outside of a record breaking foul rate I don´t see any case for McGee as a post defender or an option to stop bigs like Towns, Embiid or Jokic. Last time he faced the Nuggets and Jokic in the playoffs he was close to a record breaking foul rate but didn´t play enough minutes to qualify. 10 fouls in 38 minutes for the series. I guess that would make him a good fit on the Mavs summer league team.
And just like the Suns the Lakers decided to reduce his role. Replaced him in the starting lineup after game 3 of the WCF. Didn´t play him a single minute in the finals.
I am taking my chances with Powell and Kleber before I put McGee on a good iso/post big.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-10-2022
Assuming that the roster is set:
The only thing that could conceivably make sense is that they believe they saw enough from Green last year to pencil him into their top 8. Like, they’re simply banking on him being able to play by playoff time, and are willing to do much worse this season if they’re wrong.
They can’t possibly have 30+ minutes in mind for McGee + Powell. It’s just not possible. I haven’t been an angel, but I haven’t done anywhere near enough bad things to deserve that happening to me.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - cow - 07-10-2022
(07-10-2022, 10:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Assuming that the roster is set:
The only thing that could conceivably make sense is that they believe they saw enough from Green last year to pencil him into their top 8. Like, they’re simply banking on him being able to play by playoff time, and are willing to do much worse this season if they’re wrong.
They can’t possibly have 30+ minutes in mind for McGee + Powell. It’s just not possible. I haven’t been an angel, but I haven’t done anywhere near enough bad things to deserve that happening to me.
![[Image: TiredSpecificFishingcat-size_restricted.gif]](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TiredSpecificFishingcat-size_restricted.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Chicagojk - 07-11-2022
1 of 80? Depressing.
Bill Simmons in his latest podcast that dropped last night goes through his top 64 trade value players. He also listed around 16 honorable mention, I believe. I am only a third way through, but no Mavs have been mentioned yet. Jalen was mentioned in the 40's with Andrew Wiggins.
Maybe Wood is mentioned, but I would not think so in the 30's. In no way is this a official list. There are some I already disagree with. But it appears Memphis will have 4 players. Same for New Orleans. Golden State too.
To only have one on the list (who will be really high), while not having all our picks and be a tax team is depressing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - DanSchwartzgan - 07-11-2022
(07-10-2022, 10:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Assuming that the roster is set:
The only thing that could conceivably make sense is that they believe they saw enough from Green last year to pencil him into their top 8. Like, they’re simply banking on him being able to play by playoff time, and are willing to do much worse this season if they’re wrong.
They can’t possibly have 30+ minutes in mind for McGee + Powell. It’s just not possible. I haven’t been an angel, but I haven’t done anywhere near enough bad things to deserve that happening to me.
I think Green is 9th at best. If the starting lineup is McGee, Wood, DFS, SD and Luka, then Maxi Bullock and Hardaway would be 6-8. Unfortunately Green doesn't have enough PG skills to run the second unit. I guess Luka and SD can play 12 minutes together to start halves and split the other 36. But we still need some injury protection if nothing else.
I've been an advocate of signing another big and Wood getting some burn at the four and even I don't see McGee/Powell getting 30 minutes. McGee took Powell's job. Powell is now competing with Wood and Maxi and DFS for 'big' minutes and is arguably the worst defender among that group and definitely the worst 3 point shooter. WE WILL PLAY 5-OUT. It just won't be 100% of the time. The ability to play both ways IS A GOOD THING.