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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 12:43 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I expect him to be traded too. It will eventually be necessary. I think they can get a really good return for him now. Might as well go full rebuild. Don't see them having a contender before his contract is up.
He’s juuuust a little too old to go through a rebuild.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ItsGoTime - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 12:42 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: He’s bounced around a lot and may be a little hesitant to wait a year. Maybe a long term contract starting at $17 million with max raises could get the job done? But yes, right now, it seems revenue and player salaries will be growing fast, so players as a general rule will probably benefit by waiting. I just hate for the Mavs to be in the same predicament they just found themselves in.I think if he works well and gets along with the team, his preference will be to stay. Of course, if he fits, I really hope he doesn’t hit FA!
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 12:49 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think if he works well and gets along with the team, his preference will be to stay. Of course, if he fits, I really hope he doesn’t hit FA!
Yes, they’re right back into another Brunson situation. If his fit with Luka on offense is as good as we hope, that extension number will be a bargain. So much so that he might turn it down. But, if they offer it, get him to accept it, and he misses practice all the time and loafs on the court every third game, it will be a huge mistake.
What is gnawing at the back of my head is the idea that they could be eyeing a strip down for cap space in the semi-near future. I know I supported it last time around, but that wasn’t coming off of the kind of success they’ve had these last couple of years. In my opinion, that strategy would be a real bummer at this point in time. But, I’m pretty confident that this team is going to do much worse this season than last, so it might seem like the natural thing to do a year from now. Not sure.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - JamesConway912 - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 11:47 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: So reading the Tea leaves, sounds like we don’t have much stuff to offer into trades. Things can change but Dallas has been pretty vocal about having Hardaway back and now talking about Din starting.
We also may not be getting a tpe, and are limited in offering a first round pick soon via trade and we are really thin with future second round picks.
So it seems left we are left with a minimum salary guys or a Powell trade. Powell may need us to include Josh Green for a trade. I prefer to keep Green unless it is a clear upgrade.
So Unfortunately we may be pretty close to being done.
Yup. My biggest hope at this point is a veteran bench PG. Someone like Schröder would be a HUGE addition. Without that the floor for next season falls dramatically low. Right now you’re one Din/Doncic injury away from being in trouble at the ballhandler spots every night.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 01:00 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: Right now you’re one Din/Doncic injury away from being in trouble at the ballhandler spots every night.
Absolutely right.
And, the lineup possibilities are considerably LESS flexible than last year, after the Porzingis trade. Not more. Less.
And, the forward they badly, badly need is STILL not here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 12:40 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is all super depressing.
??
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 01:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: ??
The roster. If Dan’s logic is actually aligned with their logic, then I really don’t think I’m going to enjoy following the team much this season. They’d be locked into a play style I don’t believe in or enjoy watching.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 01:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: The roster. If Dan’s logic is actually aligned with their logic, then I really don’t think I’m going to enjoy following the team much this season. They’d be locked into a play style I don’t believe in or enjoy watching.
"Locked in"? In what way? I see flexibility in the roster construction personally. Last season they COULDN'T play big after the TDL and that hurt them in the playoffs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 01:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: "Locked in"? In what way? I see flexibility in the roster construction personally. Last season they COULDN'T play big after the TDL and that hurt them in the playoffs.
I agree that they couldn’t play bigger in the playoffs last year.
But now, I’m not sure that problem has been solved, really, because either McGee or Powell HAS to be used, whether they can hang or not. If they had added another forward, then the FLEXIBILITY necessary to play only Wood and Kleber at the 5 (should that be the way they feel the need to go at the time) would’ve been achieved.
Imagine, for a second, that neither Powell nor McGee are able to hang on the court in a series. Yes, Wood provides a means of making that work from a bigs angle, but that leaves them with Luka, Dinwiddie, THJ, Bullock and DFS only. To my thinking, that’s one piece fewer than what’s required, at least. Also, the absence of any third ball-handler among them means less flexibility in how even those 5 can be combined.
Sure, it’s possible that either Green, Ntilikina or Hardy steps up (they kind of need 2/3 at this point) and proves to be playoff ready, but while I’m happy for them to continue developing those guys, I think it quite unwise to count on them at this time.
Unless there’s a move coming that changes Powell for a wing or guard, providing some flexibility, the Mavs MUST play at least three bigs to reach any sort of reasonable 8-9 man rotation, the way I see it.
Just a reminder that McGee was benched in favor of Biyombo last season, during a series that we here all watched closely. Valuable tool, yes. Good addition, also yes.
Someone I want to be counted among my TOP 8 players? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Bayliss - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 12:40 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is all super depressing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
One of the reasons I think @"DanSchwartzgan" is cool with this, that I think those reading his stuff might not have figured out yet, is that he knows (and is ok with the udea) that Powell will end up being the third big in a playoff series during which McGee can’t hang, foot speed wise.
I don’t think that’s the most depressing thought, either, but I bet the vast majority of people reading around here have already written Powell completely out of the playoffs in their minds. But, I’m telling you, ONE of them HAS to play, and there WILL be a situation that McGee can’t handle on defense at some point.
I’m sorry, but I don’t see increased flexibility. I see less flexibility.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 02:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Unless there’s a move coming that changes Powell for a wing or guard, providing some flexibility, the Mavs MUST play at least three bigs to reach any sort of reasonable 8-9 man rotation, the way I see it.
1) I know many are dismissing Skin Wade saying that he believes the Mavs are gearing up for a big trade for a wing this summer, but I do not. I know many struggle with having their hopes and expectations dashed and so they don't want to go down that road emotionally. That's fine. But as for me, that already felt like the natural direction and then we have had MacMahon and Stein say they prioritizing the search for a playoff wing AND Skin Wade spell it out pretty clearly IMO.
2) Even if nothing else happens (which is always a possibility in life), I am not worried. I see the playoff rotation as:
The mainstays...
Luka
SD
DFS
CW
RB
Maxi
THJ
As needed...
McGee
DP
FN
JG
DB
JH?
I have confidence in finding some key minutes from some of those guys as needed. In the playoffs, McGee was great for stretches but suffered in others (-1.1 on/off overall). DB was great in his limited time (+3.7 on/off). DP was actually part of great team success when he got time (+5.4 on/off). FN was great defensively in the playoffs (+10.6 on/off D), but killed the O (-16.7) because his shot was not falling (but I still like his shot and think with time it WILL come around). JG was basically unplayable (-10.7), but I expect him to have a big jump this year.
So yeah a reliable playoff wing IS what the Mavs need (it was the weak spot this past year other than having to play so small) and all reports point to them knowing that. But even in the worse case scenario I am comfortable with the team as is.
P.S. JB was +0.3 on/off for the playoffs. He was GREAT when Luka was out. But when Luka was back his impact was almost completely diminished. And if Luka is out you aren't going anywhere anyway.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 02:38 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don’t think that’s the most depressing thought, either, but I bet the vast majority of people reading around here have already written Powell completely out of the playoffs in their minds. But, I’m telling you, ONE of them HAS to play, and there WILL be a situation that McGee can’t handle on defense at some point.
If Powell is still here, he will play. But like every bench player with an expiring contract, the trade deadline mid-season still invites movement.
Last season, we had 4-6 players who were lucky to see a minute. That isn't true anymore. One more good player makes this a more capable bench. I will be disappointed if I don't see one more recognizable player added, but I do not think this team is taking a drop either way. I will watch any team where Luca Doncic is the ball-handler ... and enjoy it I think.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 02:50 PM)Kammrath Wrote: 1) I know many are dismissing Skin Wade saying that he believes the Mavs are gearing up for a big trade for a wing this summer, but I do not. I know many struggle with having their hopes and expectations dashed and so they don't want to go down that road emotionally. That's fine. But as for me, that already felt like the natural direction and then we have had MacMahon and Stein say they prioritizing the search for a playoff wing AND Skin Wade spell it out pretty clearly IMO.
2) Even if nothing else happens (which is always a possibility in life), I am not worried. I see the playoff rotation as:
The mainstays...
Luka
SD
DFS
CW
RB
Maxi
THJ
As needed...
McGee
DP
FN
JG
DB
JH?
I have confidence in finding some key minutes from some of those guys as needed. In the playoffs, McGee was great for stretches but suffered in others (-1.1 on/off overall). DB was great in his limited time (+3.7 on/off). DP was actually part of great team success when he got time (+5.4 on/off). FN was great defensively in the playoffs (+10.6 on/off D), but killed the O (-16.7) because his shot was not falling (but I still like his shot and think with time it WILL come around). JG was basically unplayable (-10.7), but I expect him to have a big jump this year.
So yeah a reliable playoff wing IS what the Mavs need (it was the weak spot this past year other than having to play so small) and all reports point to them knowing that. But even in the worse case scenario I am comfortable with the team as is.
If #1 happens, I will very likely feel much better. Agreed there, as far as “the fat lady hasn’t sung yet.”
On your #2…I agree with your tiers (exactly how I see things) but don’t share your confidence that the options available in your second level will be sufficient. They might be, if one of those young guys claims a spot in the rotation definitively, but I don’t want “8th man by committee.” That’s not flexibility, that’s “we don’t really have an 8th man.” Essentially, they’ve changed Brunson out for Wood (when looking at their playoff rotation players) and added THJ.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 02:54 PM)Winter Wrote: If Powell is still here, he will play. But like every bench player with an expiring contract, the trade deadline mid-season still invites movement.
Last season, we had 4-6 players who were lucky to see a minute. That isn't true anymore. One more good player makes this a more capable bench. I will be disappointed if I don't see one more recognizable player added, but I do not think this team is taking a drop either way. I will watch any team where Luca Doncia is the ball-handler ... and enjoy it I think.
I agree with your point about the trade deadline. That’s valid.
And, I agree about the bottom of the roster being more useful this year than last. Another good point.
But, I’m not putting up with an implication, no matter how subtle, that I don’t appreciate Luka Doncic, especially from someone who routinely misspells his name. It is BECAUSE of Luka and the WCF finish last season that my hope for better than this was so strong.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 02:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: On your #2…I agree with your tiers (exactly how I see things) but don’t share your confidence that the options available in your second level will be sufficient. They might be, if one of those young guys claims a spot in the rotation definitively, but I don’t want “8th man by committee.” That’s not flexibility, that’s “we don’t really have an 8th man.” Essentially, they’ve changed Brunson out for Wood (when looking at their playoff rotation players) and added THJ.
1) 8th man by committee isn't ideal...but if the Mavs are forced to take this team into the season there is a chance that FN, JG, or JH could make a leap where you can count on them. And it is possible with a full year in the system that DB could find a real home. I personally think that is a very real possibility.
2) Trading CW for JB is an upgrade to what the Mavs need in the playoffs around Luka. I really came around on JB, but repeatedly said even after his jump in the playoffs that he and Luka do NOT maximize each other. I think Luka and CW have a chance to be "sum is greater than the parts" which is exciting. I also think having THJ and his shooting on top of that is a huge step. So if the Mavs go into the playoffs with the roster as is I think they have a chance to be better and stronger than last year (of course you still need the right breaks around you to get to the WCF).
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 03:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Luka Doncic
Don't forget that IMO this will be the greatest source of improvement this year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - cow - 07-09-2022
Our rebounding is going to be a night and day difference this year and Wood's skillset is a dimension we didn't have. McGee can also provide some offensive punch, especially against smaller teams. Because of his reputation as a knock down shooter, Dorian is going to the next step in his evolution and put the ball on the floor a little more and better utilizing his athlete athleticism finish at the rim. Plus Beal 2.0 is going to be ROTY and 6th man of the year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 03:05 PM)Kammrath Wrote: 1) 8th man by committee isn't ideal...but if the Mavs are forced to take this team into the season there is a chance that FN, JG, or JH could make a leap where you can count on them. And it is possible with a full year in the system that DB could find a real home. I personally think that is a very real possibility.
2) Trading CW for JB is an upgrade to what the Mavs need in the playoffs around Luka. I really came around on JB, but repeatedly said even after his jump in the playoffs that he and Luka do NOT maximize each other. I think Luka and CW have a chance to be "sum is greater than the parts" which is exciting. I also think having THJ and his shooting on top of that is a huge step. So if the Mavs go into the playoffs with the roster as is I think they have a chance to be better and stronger than last year (of course you still need the right breaks around you to get to the WCF).
Agree with #1, I just hoped for much better (hence “depressed”).
I THINK I agree with the thesis of point #2, but for two glorious weeks we lived in a world wherein having BOTH was possible and to me, even seemed likely (hence “depressed”). Also, I’m not sure it’s a given that Wood will be an upgrade to Brunson in the wash. He certainly could be, and there’s no doubt he’s an animal that wasn’t here last year, particularly after the trade, but on the other hand, this sport currently rewards ball-handlers who can create shots for themselves.
(07-09-2022, 03:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Don't forget that IMO this will be the greatest source of improvement this year.
Very possible.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-09-2022
(07-09-2022, 03:11 PM)cow Wrote: Our rebounding is going to be a night and day difference this year
Agree with this, and agree that it needed improvement.
I don’t think rebounding is important enough to justify rethinking the team’s style of play, however, and imo, getting to the WCF while not prioritizing it at all supports that. To be clear, I’m not suggesting that their lack of rebounding was WHY they advanced, just that the things they prioritized ahead of it via play style were ultimately more important. I do agree that better rebounding (without having to sacrifice in other areas) would be a plus.