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ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 10:31 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Look, I agree the front office deserves some criticism.  Hope isn’t a strategy and even I could see before the TDL that Brunson was a risk.

HOWEVER, this Cuban is cheap stuff is a bit unfair (not meaning to pick on you.  You just happened to be the one who wrote it when I had a moment to look at numbers).  First, we haven’t seen how things end.  But, if they just end right now we are at $164mm in salary ($15mm into the tax) with one roster spot still available.  The list of who is spending more is pretty small…LAC, GS, Milwaukee.  Boston and LAL are about the same as us but LAL will likely cut salary when they trade RB. Brooklyn is higher also, but like LAL will probably make trades that reduce salary.

So, the list of teams spending more is very likely 3-4 teams.  I’m not sure Brunson leaving is any indication of future plans to spend or not spend on the right deal.

Didn´t we just have a chart that had the Mavs dead last in spending in the last five years? I think Cuban is bringing it upon himself. If he wouldn´t make big announcements he wouldn´t get as much criticism. It was him that talked about the Mavs being in luxury tax hell. Cannot really fault the fanbase. They are just holding him to his word.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Scott41theMavs - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 10:46 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Yes, I feel Dallas is in a really treacherous place....and that is weird considering how last year was a success.   I hoped the plan was bring back the roster as is, make some improvements (Wood, McGee), pay the tax, clear up the bench large contracts next year, and be ready to pounce on the big deal when is appears.   This next season may have been a step back if we followed that path, but I was optimistic it was a group that liked playing together and played well as a group.

Without Brunson, I think we have taken a step back from the top and I am also glancing behind us as the young teams are gaining speed.   

In all likelihood it may be best to take the long view approach and not make any drastic changes now.  The issue is Luka is in a win now space and how does he react if we have clearly taken a step back?   I think we all want to make that big move now.  But the problem is that move may not be available and if we bet wrong again, we may be stuck with no assets moving forward and the impending future Luka FA date getting closer and closer.  

Even if we take the long view approach, we clearly need another ball handler and another wing.   I can't believe we would go into the season without either.    I think minutes for a wing can be manufactured internally, but it was a stated objective of the team this offseason.  So I expect at least some kind of move is made there.

Something that isn't talked about enough is the uncertainty with Wood, being in a contract year. Are the Mavs able to talk him into a simple extension? Or does he ask them to break the bank, when he's too much of a loose cannon for that to be a realistic decision? If they can see it's not going to work out, are they willing and able to pull the trigger at the TDL (unlike with Nash, Brunson, ad nauseum)?


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - DallasMaverick - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 10:48 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Didn´t we just have a chart that had the Mavs dead last in spending in the last five years? I think Cuban is bringing it upon himself. If he wouldn´t make big announcements he wouldn´t get as much criticism. It was him that talked about the Mavs being in luxury tax hell. Cannot really fault the fanbase. They are just holding him to his word.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 11:42 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: https://hoopshype.com/salaries/

From the luxury tax thread:

https://twitter.com/JamesBeaver01/status/1544030128975511559?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1544030128975511559%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.embedly.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dfd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjamesbeaver01%2Fstatus%2F1544030128975511559image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fabs.twimg.com%2Ferrors%2Flogo46x38.png


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - DallasMaverick - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 11:47 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: From the luxury tax thread:

https://twitter.com/JamesBeaver01/status/1544030128975511559?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1544030128975511559%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.embedly.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dfd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjamesbeaver01%2Fstatus%2F1544030128975511559image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fabs.twimg.com%2Ferrors%2Flogo46x38.png

Probably appropriate, based on the won-loss record of the teams in those years.

Would have been an incredible bummer to have a really high payroll, and really bad record as well. Lakers, anyone?

Here's a good article, although a couple of years old:

https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2020/11/nba-payroll-efficiency-which-teams-are-the-smartest-spenders/


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 12:45 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Probably appropriate, based on the won-loss record of the teams in those years.

Would have been an incredible bummer to have a really high payroll, and really bad record as well. Lakers, anyone?

Here's a good article, although a couple of years old:

https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2020/11/nba-payroll-efficiency-which-teams-are-the-smartest-spenders/

Also highlights the difference between the current Mavs and the pre luxury tax reform / championship Mavs. Front office didn´t get any smarter but in the past Cuban paid extra to make up for mistakes. Absorbing veterans in exchange for picks and expirings was the Mavs go to move. Post 2011 he stopped doing it.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Scott41theMavs - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 01:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Also highlights the difference between the current Mavs and the pre luxury tax reform / championship Mavs. Front office didn´t get any smarter but in the past Cuban paid extra to make up for mistakes. Absorbing veterans in exchange for picks and expirings was the Mavs go to move. Post 2011 he stopped doing it.

Exactly.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - JamesConway912 - 07-08-2022

Again: tech stocks and especially the crypto market have taken a substantial hit roughly since November. Cuban is probably down big over that time span and the Mavs’ tiny spending numbers among Nba teams over the last years speak volumes. the guy has been extremely cheap when it comes to the Mavs ever since 2011.

Luka needs to be MUCH more aggressive behind the scenes and demand MORE in terms of roster moves. Otherwise he will end up with even less support than Dirk did.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-08-2022

Imagine how bad the Knicks graph would look, if they didn´t get to bend over Cuban every five years. Cry


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - radix - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 01:18 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: Again: tech stocks and especially the crypto market have taken a substantial hit roughly since November. Cuban is probably down big over that time span and the Mavs’ tiny spending numbers among Nba teams over the last years speak volumes. the guy has been extremely cheap when it comes to the Mavs ever since 2011.

Luka needs to be MUCH more aggressive behind the scenes and demand MORE in terms of roster moves. Otherwise he will end up with even less support than Dirk did.

I have made a fortune in crypto. I have known the crypto market intimately for 9 years. I can tell you that Cuban has NEVER owned much crypto. 

Cuban is like a man child. He made $2 billion off of a crappy website he sold to Yahoo at the height of the dot.com hysteria. Since then he has been a VC in about 2000 companies (I exaggerate) most of which have failed. Cuban negotiates with his ego. Just watch shark tank. He is one of the most irrational "experts" on there. 

Cuban is cheap. He would rather look smart by winning on a budget than spend to win. Again, he is a man child. He is much more into seating in the front row owner seats than actually winning. The small payroll has nothing to do with crypto or tech stocks (his ego would not let him invest in stocks either). He is just a stingy manchild.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Kammrath - 07-08-2022

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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Tyler - 07-08-2022

I'll take group A. They're a lot more versatile all around. As much as I liked KP, JB, and JRich I sort of dig the new team identity they're building.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - SleepingHero - 07-08-2022

(07-08-2022, 11:08 PM)Tyler Wrote: I'll take group A. They're a lot more versatile all around. As much as I liked KP, JB, and JRich I sort of dig the new team identity they're building.


Agreed. I owned a lot of land on KP island cause I'm a sucker for stretch bigs (bonus points if they're european), but he just couldn't stay healthy. Wood CAN do a lot of the same things as KP, but they play totally different imo. Wood loves to roll, and while he can post up, his entire game isn't built around it. 

Bullock>>>> JRich as he can actually shoot threes.

JB>Dinwiddie but I gotta say it's close. Brunson is way more consistent with a higher floor (i.e. will always give you 18pts every night with a 20+ thrown in there), but Dinwiddie can explode for 30+ on any given night. 


I don't mind what Dallas is trying to do. I'm actually starting to think what Nico meant by flexibility from the KP trade actually meant "Should JB leave this offseason we can throw Dinwiddie in as a starter and be fine"


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ItsGoTime - 07-09-2022

21-22 9 man rotation out of the gate: 
Luka/THJ/DFS/KP/Powell
JB/Green or Frank/Bullock/Maxi

22-23 9 man rotation out of the gate (as it stands now):
Luka/SD/DFS/Wood/McGee
THJ/Green or Frank/Bullock/Maxi

Honestly, I don’t know why there is so much gnashing of teeth over any of this. I personally think this year’s team is much better built to withstand the rigors of the regular season than last. Just as much ball handling as there was last year (with Wood and DFS increased confidence and hopefully THJ starting to do the same under Kidd I personally think there’s quite a bit more). 

For those worried about losing the first quarter. It’s not gonna be worse than last year (seems people forgot how bad we were in the 1st quarter). Last year I wrote a post showing the bigs on playoff teams that start the game. Every team with the exception of GSW and Tor had a monster big, dinosaur if you will. We all watched Powell get ragdolled around in the paint by those guys and KP didn’t help much (which it doesn’t look like Wood will either). 

Bottom line is, I like our team to start this season better than I did last. Not by a lot mind you (although I’m hoping it plays out that way…”by a lot”). I also still think there is something in the works. After these last interviews looks like the additions will more than likely push guys out of the 6-9 spots in the rotation as opposed to the 1-5.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - cow - 07-09-2022

Wood's a big question Mark.  Bullock over JRich and JB easily over Dinwiddie.  Hard to pick one group over the other but when it doubt, go with the best player  Give me B.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - DanSchwartzgan - 07-09-2022

(07-09-2022, 01:01 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:  
22-23 9 man rotation out of the gate (as it stands now):
Luka/SD/DFS/Wood/McGee
THJ/Green or Frank/Bullock/Maxi

I think we can go 8 deep in a playoff rotation (7.5 if you want to count McGee's 16 minutes as a half).  Last year it was 6.
 
We have two PG's, three bigs and three wings among those 8 (or 7.5)...basically what it should be.

McGee's defensive numbers are really good and Wood at PF is above average.  The defense, even with Bullock coming off the bench, will be fine anchored by McGee/DFS to start.  The bench D will be anchored by Maxi and Bullock.

We can go big (McGee/Wood at the 5/4) or small (Wood/DFS at the 5/4) in the front court.  We can go all O or all D around Luka.  So, we have good flexibility.

Two of our bench players (THJ and Bullock) have been and could be starters.  I think we all agree Maxi is really good in a limited third big role.  The bench only has to be three deep in the playoffs if the three cover the required roles/positions.  I think we are shy some bench ball handling.

I kind of wonder who will have a more consistent role, Powell or Bertans.  I can actually see the bench being more like Maxi, Bertans, THJ, Bullock and Somebody.  That Somebody will certainly have some space to work with...even as DFS, SD and Wood filter back in.

We have some youth to try to develop, but can we really develop Green and Hardy at the same time?  First one to being a league average three point shooter wins.  As we currently stand, the bench could use a creator.  I don't think Green or Frank are that guy.  They are candidates to replace Bullock when his contract is up.  Hardy might be that guy a year from now (or two).  Seems to me we need a placeholder guard.  Someone like Patrick Beverley with a year left on his deal would do the job or Conley with two years (and Utah needs help at C).  I'd like them to get that guy now, but I can see them throwing Hardy to the wolves a bit and trading for that guy at the TDL.  As I said recently, they've set themselves up to where they "can" be done if they wish.  I'm hopeful they have something more, even if it is just some more creation from the bench.

If there is a big trade for a starter level guy, who do you sit/trade?  It seems Luka, DFS and Wood are pretty set.  It seems they want a second creator (SD) and an inexpensive rim protector to start halves.  As to how the rotation will work, I imagine McGee and Dinwiddie will be replaced pretty early in the 1st and 3rd by Bullock and THJ (moving Wood/DFS to the 5/4 with Luka still playing).  Later in the quarter Maxi comes in for Wood or DFS.  Dinwiddie and a bench player will come in at the start of the next quarter for Luka and the one of DFS/Wood who played the entire period with Luka.  This is where Kidd usually gives spot minutes to someone like Green, Bertans, Powell or Hardy.  This player and McGee will likely be under 20 minutes.  Luka, SD, Wood, DFS, Maxi, Bullock and THJ will all probably be over 25 minutes.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ThisIStheYear - 07-09-2022

(07-08-2022, 11:33 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Something that isn't talked about enough is the uncertainty with Wood, being in a contract year. Are the Mavs able to talk him into a simple extension? Or does he ask them to break the bank, when he's too much of a loose cannon for that to be a realistic decision? If they can see it's not going to work out, are they willing and able to pull the trigger at the TDL (unlike with Nash, Brunson, ad nauseum)?

The Mavs need to decide now whether they’re willing to pay Wood $25 million per. If not, move him as soon as you can.  He’s not returning anything of value as a TDL rental. Or, if you plan to keep him even for this year, I agree with you, offer him the max extension as soon as possible. Gotta think fast in the NBA or you’ll get left holding your dick, like the Mavs did with JB.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ItsGoTime - 07-09-2022

(07-09-2022, 08:36 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: The Mavs need to decide now whether they’re willing to pay Wood $25 million per. If not, move him as soon as you can.  He’s not returning anything of value as a TDL rental. Or, if you plan to keep him even for this year, I agree with you, offer him the max extension as soon as possible. Gotta think fast in the NBA or you’ll get left holding your dick, like the Mavs did with JB.
I can’t remember the actual numbers someone reported, but I remember someone saying if we offer the max before sometime in Dec his max extension is basically an extension of his current $14M contract. After it becomes much more? Am I remembering that correctly? I say figure out early in Nov that he works with Luka and extend him on his lower max extension amount, if that is true. 

I think it might be figured out as soon as training camp, but I don’t think we should do it right now. Gotta find the sweet spot where there are still question marks in his mind, but less in our mind about fit. Otherwise he won’t accept the lower number even if we offer it.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 07-09-2022

I think we pretty desperately need a 3rd guard that can initiate the offense. And especially in event of injury. I don’t see any world in which Hardy is ready for that responsibility. Bev would make some sense, though he more off ball. They just have a move lined up to not bring in Dragic for the minimum. That entire situation is still strange to me. Everyone was reporting he was a lock for Dallas, until he wasn’t. We must have another guard incoming.


RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ItsGoTime - 07-09-2022

(07-09-2022, 09:04 AM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: I think we pretty desperately need a 3rd guard that can initiate the offense. And especially in event of injury. I don’t see any world in which Hardy is ready for that responsibility. Bev would make some sense, though he more off ball. They just have a move lined up to not bring in Dragic for the minimum. That entire situation is still strange to me. Everyone was reporting he was a lock for Dallas, until he wasn’t. We must have another guard incoming.
I don’t think they think things are as desperate as you think.