(07-05-2022, 05:48 PM)F Gump Wrote: RDB - "I like Maxi but am not married to an above average defender who has no game inside the 3 point line and needs 3’ of space to shoot or he becomes a speed bump in ball rotation.  I just think his skills are easily replaceable with reasonable dollars. (Wow that sounds harsh).  I will agree that I am on the fence with Green.  I still hold out hope that we will see significant improvement where Maxi at this point is what he is."

My view on Maxi is 2-fold, and I think both are vital to the bigger picture:

1 He is a good two-player. The Mavs don't have enough of those. Sure there are better players out there in this area or that, but it's a mistake to make the perfect become the enemy of the good.

2 More importantly, if he is traded right now, finding a "two-way big" replacement will be hard. Who's that 3-and-D big you have in mind that's so great? Or even as good as Maxi?

It’s just a difference in the value each of us place on him.  I view Maxi as a solid bench player but nothing more.  I do like his defense and would probably value him higher if he were more than a set shot 3 point guy who is completely reliant on others to get a shot.  If we could get DB the same looks that Maxi gets, we would forget about Maxi’s shooting quickly.  Unfortunately, that isn’t going to happen because teams stick to DB much tighter and know if they can close out reasonably quickly, Maxi won’t shoot or drive.  I would even accept passable inside the 3 point line.  I just think at 30, he is what he is and I don’t see things improving as he gets further away from 30.

And it doesn't get solved next summer either, because even if there are many available then (and there never are), the Mavs only get 1 (ONE!) opportunity each summer, not all they want, to get those good solid NT-MLE players to fill various needs throughout the roster. Sometimes (like this year, limited to the T-MLE), they get 0. With Kyrie having walked, you have to fix that already.

As far as Green, I don't think you get enough value by including him. So why bother? He would be pretty close to just filler in the eyes of the other team. They certainly won't be giving you the value of what you think he can become.

I agree…I threw him in as filler too.

(07-05-2022, 08:05 PM)mvossman Wrote: It’s just a difference in the value each of us place on him.  I view Maxi as a solid bench player but nothing more.  I do like his defense and would probably value him higher if he were more than a set shot 3 point guy who is completely reliant on others to get a shot.  If we could get DB the same looks that Maxi gets, we would forget about Maxi’s shooting quickly.  Unfortunately, that isn’t going to happen because teams stick to DB much tighter and know if they can close out reasonably quickly, Maxi won’t shoot or drive.  I would even accept passable inside the 3 point line.  I just think at 30, he is what he is and I don’t see things improving as he gets further away from 30.

Your right in that he is very limited on offense, but generally its good enough not to be a big negative (unless he is in a huge shooting slump like the end of this last season).  But I think his defense an versatility are sometimes overlooked.  He is arguably the best defender on the team and possesses the rare talent of being a quality rim protector while also being able to defend the perimeter.  Having a rim protector that can't get played off the court defensively is a huge plus in the playoffs.  He is also the perfect match for guys like Wood and Powell whos offensive games are primarily in the paint, but can't protect the rim particularly well.  He is never going to garner much in a trade due to his limited offense and he doesn't play big minutes, but I think he is very valuable to this team.

(07-05-2022, 08:25 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: We aren't going far without them.  That's why other teams want them and why guys like Thybulle are being shopped.

(07-05-2022, 11:26 PM)RDB Wrote: This board can also be a fickle group.

(07-05-2022, 11:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: The fickleness of the board is because different people believe differently. If you read posts on here and think it’s all 1 person saying it, you’re doing it wrong. Also, there are tons of differing opinions for just about any topic. I myself have probably disagreed with every poster that posts on this board at some point or another so I know there is at least some differing opinions.

For sure the Mavs favorable posts get the most likes and the thoughts that are less than sunshine pumping don’t get a lot of support, but I’ve found there are like minded people that just don’t show the support of those type of posts.

(07-05-2022, 11:26 PM)RDB Wrote: I respect others opinions, I just don’t agree on Maxi (or many of our other supposedly indispensable players).  Frankly, if we aren’t going far without the Maxi’s and Greens, we have far more issues than I believe we do.  I just don’t understand how people can spend so much time complaining about our depth and talent and continually say that we need to upgrade, yet when it comes time to do something, all of our players are indispensable unless he returns a stud.  Every time a proposal is made, folks say the other team wouldn’t do it because we don’t have the assets or it’s clearly one sided.  Our blue colored glasses have become fogged.

This board can also be a fickle group.  When Maxi was sucking hind tit at the end of the year, many were looking to bail.  He put together a few good scoring games and now he is indispensable.  Timmy was blasted until I believe his contract season, then we needed him, now we don’t again.  The SD trade was unpopular until he showed something and we fell in love.  When he strung together some poor playoff games, that love started to wane.  Now that Brunson has left, he is again indispensable.  We want others to give us the players we ask for because we love our boys but will complain when nothing gets done.  Maybe we just find our #2 using Timmy and DB and we should be finals bound .

Edit:  One more point on the fickleness, don’t forget, there was a large number of folks on the board that didn’t like Reggie well past the mid point of last season.  Just go back and review posts.

(07-05-2022, 11:58 PM)RDB Wrote: Surely you know that I am aware that different people have different opinions and it’s not one poster, though the site is dominated by about 10-15 posters.  However the tone and complete silence of any potential dissenters would lead one to believe that maybe there is a general agreement.  That or they just don’t want to get run over by the more vocal voices.  Either way, there is no doubt in my mind that our biases (IMO) cloud our judgement.  And it really rears it’s head around free agency and the TDL.

Edit:  I left the board because of the snarky comments of some posters, some of which are still here.  Having a dissenting opinion didn’t seem welcomed and I didn’t have the time or energy to mess with it.  I have remained a silent lurker and only chose to speak out now because I was getting frustrated that I wasn’t getting any value in following because iMO, it was becoming a non-creative echo chamber of hopelessness.  Which is a shame because there are so many knowledgeable folks here.  I don’t mean this to be harsh…just being honest with my opinion.

(07-06-2022, 12:42 AM)mvossman Wrote: In my mind, the purpose of trades are to improve fit.  A good trade is when both teams get better (at whatever it is they are trying to accomplish).  When you have players that are a very good fit on a team, there is generally not a good reason to trade them.  This team went to the WCF with a collection of players that you would not expect to go that far.  We traded our second most talented player for guys not nearly as talented and started winning at one of the highest rates in the NBA.  Folks talk about trading Timmy because he was struggling to fit in Kidd's system before the injury and was not part of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.  Folks are more hesitant to trade guys like Dorian, Bullock, Maxi and Dinwiddie because they are great fits on this team.  Unless you are swindling another team (not something this FO is particularly known for) you are likely not getting equal value sending those guys out due to fit.

This board is fickle like all fanbases are fickle.  Part of it is different voices on different topics, part of it is typical fan overreaction, and part of it is that we have had some wild swings in player performance.  There was reasonable trepidation on the Dinwiddie fit here, and that turned out to be significantly better than anticipated.  Bullock was absolutely terrible for the first two months of the season, but once he could hit the broad side of a barn, it became clear how good his fit is.  Maxi went through by far his worst stretch of his career towards the end of the season to the point he was almost unplayable, but he was vital in the playoffs.  There has been reason for some of the fickleness.

(07-05-2022, 11:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: The fickleness of the board is because different people believe differently. If you read posts on here and think it’s all 1 person saying it, you’re doing it wrong. Also, there are tons of differing opinions for just about any topic. I myself have probably disagreed with every poster that posts on this board at some point or another so I know there is at least some differing opinions.

For sure the Mavs favorable posts get the most likes and the thoughts that are less than sunshine pumping don’t get a lot of support, but I’ve found there are like minded people that just don’t show the support of those type of posts.

(07-06-2022, 02:10 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: I find most on here overvalue Dallas players thinking they are better than they really are ( with one obvious exception of course)

(07-06-2022, 01:08 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: One last thought for the night...

All of this discussion makes me more interested in obtaining Simmons (if we were to get one of the BKN guys).  If his back checks out, I think he is the most impactful long term with this team.  His defense, ball handling/distribution, and ability to get easy baskets would fill a lot of the remaining holes on this team.  He even fits the timeline.  I have enjoyed watching him play during his career and he has been a fierce competitor.  I feel that Kidd could get the most out of him and would weaponize him as a defensive ace.  He also is great at turning defense into offense - even when things slow down in the playoffs.  Dal has some fine shooters to compliment him and could play as the one non-shooter often.  Since he is a creator, that is fine.

So there.  Throwing my opinion into the universe.  I still doubt the Mavs will get one of them, but he's my pick to pursue.  (Again, if his back passes the medical review).

(07-06-2022, 02:20 AM)KillerLeft Wrote:

(07-06-2022, 06:32 AM)omahen Wrote: Teams can start signing players to contracts today. I think we may finally found out if Brunson is a SnT or lost for nothing.

(07-05-2022, 11:58 PM)RDB Wrote: Edit:  I left the board because of the snarky comments of some posters, some of which are still here.  Having a dissenting opinion didn’t seem welcomed and I didn’t have the time or energy to mess with it.  I have remained a silent lurker and only chose to speak out now because I was getting frustrated that I wasn’t getting any value in following because iMO, it was becoming a non-creative echo chamber of hopelessness.  Which is a shame because there are so many knowledgeable folks here.  I don’t mean this to be harsh…just being honest with my opinion.

(07-06-2022, 02:10 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: I find most on here overvalue Dallas players thinking they are better than they really are