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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:01 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: Would anyone trade THJ, Bertans, and Powell straight up for Westbrook? I know Westbrook is a bad fit basketball-wise, but it's only for one year as he is expiring. Clearing out our three worst contracts all at once would be huge.
I'll say this in regards to this post and to RDB just above it.
We talk about these expiring years as if there is no risk "just for a year." I would argue that the Mavericks are on the clock. Putting Luca with someone like Westbrook or Irving seems an unnecessary addition unless you truly believe a championship is imminent in 2023.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - sterlingmallory - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:08 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Never in a million years.
We saw how Westbrook fit next to Lebron. Luka is in a similar mold. Taking on 48 million of dead cap for a player who won't play at all while simultaneously losing three guys that can play in any given game and fit worlds better than Westbrook ever will kills the deal for me.
Powell is 11 million dead cap this year and Bertans is 16 million a year in dead cap until 2025. Westbrook is only 1 year. Deal with his BS for 1 year then he's gone. Walk into summer 2023 with basically only Luka, Dinwiddie, DFS, Bullock, and McGee (plus Wood and Maxi if you chose to re-sign them) and all your picks going forward....
(07-05-2022, 12:11 PM)Winter Wrote: I'll say this in regards to this post and to RDB just above it.
We talk about these expiring years as if there is no risk "just for a year." I would argue that the Mavericks are on the clock. Putting Luca with someone like Westbrook or Irving seems an unnecessary addition unless you truly believe a championship is imminent in 2023.
And Bertans and THJ's contracts potentially hamstringing us from doing anything significant until 2025 isn't putting us on the clock? Again, at least Westbrook isn't locker room cancer like Kyrie or Simmons.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - mvossman - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:09 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: Think about how much flexibility you'd gain by getting out from under THJ and Bertans contracts though. And honestly, Westbrook may be an inefficient chucker, but I'd still take him over Simmons or Kyrie. At least Westbrook wants to play basketball. Kyrie literally just blew up a franchise that had championship aspirations and Simmons is too scared of getting clowned on social media to even try to shoot.
What flexibility does it add? Powell was already expiring and Timmy contract will potentially be an asset by next season. In order to have anywhere close to cap space for a max contract next season we would need to let Wood and Maxi walk. You are talking about dumping 3 of our currently 7 core players so that we can chase a free agent. Have we not been burned by plan powder enough?
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:01 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: Would anyone trade THJ, Bertans, and Powell straight up for Westbrook?
Every person with a brain.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - RasheedsBigWhiteSpot - 07-05-2022
I have been advocating for this for days. But I also want LAL's 2026 unprotected 1st, lottery protected 2028 and swaps in 2025, 2027.
Armed with Westbrook's expirer and a war chest of firsts, there's no one they can't bid on.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - sterlingmallory - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:18 PM)mvossman Wrote: What flexibility does it add? Powell was already expiring and Timmy contract will potentially be an asset by next season. In order to have anywhere close to cap space for a max contract next season we would need to let Wood and Maxi walk. You are talking about dumping 3 of our currently 7 core players so that we can chase a free agent. Have we not been burned by plan powder enough?
Powell and Bertans are core players? Powell was unplayable in the playoffs and Bertans is good for 10 mpg at most and is one of the top 5 worst contracts in the league. THJ is a good player, but he isn't a defender or a playmaker, making him a less than ideal fit next to Luka in Kidd's system.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-05-2022
I watched Westbrook play with the Lakers about 20 times last season. About 20 full games.
I find it difficult to believe anyone who watched that much of him would want him on this team. I mean, unless they were a Lakers fan. Then it would make a ton of sense.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:27 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: Powell and Bertans are core players? Powell was unplayable in the playoffs and Bertans is good for 10 mpg at most and is one of the top 5 worst contracts in the league. THJ is a good player, but he isn't a defender or a playmaker, making him a less than ideal fit next to Luka in Kidd's system.
You won´t convince them. They have been brain-washed by the national media. They probably also think that Westbrook is not the best player in the deal, but that doesn´t even matter. As you say the huge cap-relief alone makes the trade a win.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - SleepingHero - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:14 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: Powell is 11 million dead cap this year and Bertans is 16 million a year in dead cap until 2025. Westbrook is only 1 year. Deal with his BS for 1 year then he's gone. Walk into summer 2023 with basically only Luka, Dinwiddie, DFS, Bullock, and McGee (plus Wood and Maxi if you chose to re-sign them) and all your picks going forward....
I don't think Powell has ever been as useless as Westbrook has. Sure, he's unplayable in the playoffs. But in the regular season? Passable big on most nights.
Is Westbrick ever passable? I'm not particularly fond in intentionally tanking a season in which we don't have a draft pick.
(07-05-2022, 12:31 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You won´t convince them. They have been brain-washed by the national media. They probably also think that Westbrook is not the best player in the deal, but that doesn´t even matter. As you say the huge cap-relief alone makes the trade a win.
Do you seriously think adding Westbrook to this team is a viable/good idea...?
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:31 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I don't think Powell has ever been as useless as Westbrook has. Sure, he's unplayable in the playoffs. But in the regular season? Passable big on most nights.
Is Westbrick ever passable? I'm not particularly fond in intentionally tanking a season in which we don't have a draft pick.
With some of the stuff I read on here, I´m thinking Cuban must have gone full KD and operates a dozen accounts simultaniously. You just literally wrote that Dwight Powell is a better player than Westbrook.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - mvossman - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:27 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: Powell and Bertans are core players? Powell was unplayable in the playoffs and Bertans is good for 10 mpg at most and is one of the top 5 worst contracts in the league. THJ is a good player, but he isn't a defender or a playmaker, making him a less than ideal fit next to Luka in Kidd's system.
Of course not. I am referring to THJ and letting Wood and Maxi walk in order to get your "flexibility". If we sign those guys to extensions your looking at cap space less than the full MLE. That means we would basically be using Timmy to dump Bertans contract. Not interested.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - SleepingHero - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:34 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: With some of the stuff I read on here, I´m thinking Cuban must have gone full KD and operates a dozen accounts simultaniously. You just literally wrote that Dwight Powell is a better player than Westbrook.
I 100% Dwight Powell is a better player for this team than Westbrook and I don't think that's a hot take at all.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - sterlingmallory - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:31 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You won´t convince them. They have been brain-washed by the national media. They probably also think that Westbrook is not the best player in the deal, but that doesn´t even matter. As you say the huge cap-relief alone makes the trade a win.
It kind of blows my mind seeing the backlash to this and yet we spend 5 pages fantasizing about Kyrie, who the Nets are so done with that they're willing to lose KEVIN DURANT as long as it means they're also rid of Kyrie, or Ben Simmons who last we saw was so scared to do anything that he stood in the dunkers spot for an entire playoff game and then subsequently sat out an entire season because his coach said a kind of mean thing about him. Yet some people here want to spend assets to get one of those guys and commit to them long term. At least with my idea we're clearing out the trash and are free of Westbrook after a year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:18 PM)mvossman Wrote: What flexibility does it add? Powell was already expiring and Timmy contract will potentially be an asset by next season. In order to have anywhere close to cap space for a max contract next season we would need to let Wood and Maxi walk. You are talking about dumping 3 of our currently 7 core players so that we can chase a free agent. Have we not been burned by plan powder enough?
Yeah, people are just going through all the stages of grief, and we're in different stages at different times. I knew these kinds of arguments would break out, eventually.
There really isn't a good way to go for cap space, at this point, now that Luka's super max has kicked in. I was a huge proponent of that approach (not that it was successful) when he was on his rookie deal, but now this approach would require stripping the roster down to like Luka, DFS and maybe one other core player. Then, you get 1-2 free agents (not the ones we'd want) and then you're right back here, only with less talent and you've wasted years in the process.
In my view, the Mavs are officially in the "make trades" portion of roster building, so what they need are contract place holders that are potentially attractive to other teams.
Losing Brunson, during this stage, was inexcusable, imo, and we're likely to regret that they allowed this to happen for years to come, regardless of how he plays in NY.
(07-05-2022, 12:41 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote: It kind of blows my mind seeing the backlash to this and yet we spend 5 pages fantasizing about Kyrie
Not everyone who doesn't want Westbrook wants Kyrie Irving. That's a false equivalency. I wouldn't touch either of them with a 10-foot pole.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - mvossman - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:31 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You won´t convince them. They have been brain-washed by the national media. They probably also think that Westbrook is not the best player in the deal, but that doesn´t even matter. As you say the huge cap-relief alone makes the trade a win.
You have been very condescending for somebody advocating plan powder. Given your constant bitching I assume you had all kinds of issues with plan powder since the championship, yet you seem to be all for it now.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:34 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I´m thinking Cuban must have gone full KD and operates a dozen accounts simultaniously.
Would explain why he has no money to pay the luxury tax. Hiring people to do it probably costs a lot.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - mvossman - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:14 PM)sterlingmallory Wrote:
And Bertans and THJ's contracts potentially hamstringing us from doing anything significant until 2025 isn't putting us on the clock? Again, at least Westbrook isn't locker room cancer like Kyrie or Simmons.
I'm confused how THJ contract is hamstringing us? He will likely be a asset in a season or two. With how common extensions are, our route to getting a true number 2 with Luka is almost definitely going to be through a trade using neutral contracts and future picks rather than free agency (which has never worked for this franchise anyways). From that standpoint Timmy is useful now and Bertans will be in a season or two.
Not sure why you are comparing Westbrook to Kyrie or Simmons. The right answer would be none of them.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - F Gump - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 12:23 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: I have been advocating for this for days. But I also want LAL's 2026 unprotected 1st, lottery protected 2028 and swaps in 2025, 2027.
Armed with Westbrook's expirer and a war chest of firsts, there's no one they can't bid on.
This is a reasonable approach -- and it's also why Westbrook is still a Laker. And why he's very likely to stay one.
LA wants to get rid of him in the worst way .... but they don't want to pay a pick to make it happen. Not even a single pick. But no other team wants WB either -- he's a cancer on the floor (not intentionally, because he plays hard, but he's ball dominant and an awful shooter) and he still sees himself as a star and deserving to play long, important minutes. Combine that reality with his MASSIVE contract, and teams generally have no interest (unless LA is willing to bribe them).
But LA wants to keep their picks. They know what we all know, which is that their 'sell by' date on Lebron and AD is coming fast, and they have nothing else.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - cow - 07-05-2022
Westbrook is especially broken on the court when he's your third guy and it's why it was such a dumb move by the Lakers in the first place. I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as the product he put on display last season. And that's not me wanting him, because I don't. Like @"F Gump" said, the Lakers don't want to attach picks to get rid of him. While I didn't like the THJ signing, I do think he becomes a decent asset after this season when he only has two years left thanks to the contract structure so I'd be hesitant to send him out, even if we could attach Bertans, without some compensation coming back our way.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - F Gump - 07-05-2022
3 other truths relevant to the Westbrook equation:
1 When the games happen, I think there's more value to having Bertans-THJ-Powell on my bench, available if needed, than Westbrook.
2 When trade possibilities happen, I think there's a better chance to get value for THJ or Powell (his expiring) and maybe even Bertans (and his shooting) than offering to include RW in a deal.
3 Westbrook doesn't really help your roster building. He's junk on your bench for a year, then gone. But the others might at some point.