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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Branduil - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 07:54 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: We should be far more desperate than the Lakers. We are tying to avoid a nuclear bomb going off in about 24 months and killing a potentially beautiful world.
The Lakers are already a post apocalyptic wasteland. Bron has been washed up for a few years and Athony Davis can´t stay healthy. If not for the pure luck of the bubble and getting a three months rest before a travel-less play-offs, they would not have won s*** with or without Westbrook.
You're not wrong that the Mavs need to be desperate, but they also can't afford to get the next move wrong. The longer Kyrie is on your team, the odds of chemistry implosion approach 100%. We've already seen how important chemistry is to this team and NOT having a guy who misses half of the games and only cares about himself.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept - mvossman - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 07:02 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If you exempt Wood and Maxi from the outgoing and look at money matches for Powell/THJ, you end up with Powell/THJ/Green for T. Harris/Thybulle. The reason it isn't done is Philly is still working out details with Harden. They've already announced Tucker for the MLE, so they have to have a way to save some money. Maybe Harden plays nice and they are fine. Maybe he doesn't and Philly needs a money saving deal.
Starters: Wood/Harris/DFS/Bullock/Luka
Main Bench: McGee/Maxi/Thybulle/Dinwiddie
Deep Bench: Bertans/Frank/Hardy/Dragic
In a vacuum I like that trade, but it makes less sense after the Wood move. Harris makes sense paired with a traditional defensive center, but the Wood/Harris combination does not provide a lot of rim protection/defense.
Actually, I am really warming up to the Wood/Maxi pairing, and McGee makes that possible as the quality backup center. Right now I think our focus should be on signing Dragic and wait until the TDL to make any more moves. At that point we need to either trade or extend Wood, Powell has value as an expiring and hopefully we have built Timmy's value back up.
If you look at the roster with Dragic, it is good and deep. Not contention worthy, but probably as good as last season and top 4 seed is a strong possibility.
Luka/Dragic/Hardy
Din/THJ/Frank
Bullock/DFS/Green
DFS/Maxi/Bertans
Wood/McGee/Powell
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - mvossman - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 07:54 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: We should be far more desperate than the Lakers. We are tying to avoid a nuclear bomb going off in about 24 months and killing a potentially beautiful world.
The Lakers are already a post apocalyptic wasteland. Bron has been washed up for a few years and Athony Davis can´t stay healthy. If not for the pure luck of the bubble and getting a three months rest before a travel-less play-offs, they would not have won s*** with or without Westbrook.
Hard disagree on the desperate mindset. Why are we talking about nuclear bomb going off when we just went to the WCF? The Brunson fumble was not good, but the Wood trade makes up for a lot of it (and potentially all of it considering fit). I'm still in the camp that this team needs just one big move to get a true number 2 to be a contender. That move will likely involve all of our future assets (especially after bungling Brunson) and we need to get it right. We likely have more than two years to make that deal and it not something that you want to rush or panic on (which is what desperate teams do).
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 10:02 AM)mvossman Wrote: Hard disagree on the desperate mindset. Why are we talking about nuclear bomb going off when we just went to the WCF? The Brunson fumble was not good, but the Wood trade makes up for a lot of it (and potentially all of it considering fit). I'm still in the camp that this team needs just one big move to get a true number 2 to be a contender. That move will likely involve all of our future assets (especially after bungling Brunson) and we need to get it right. We likely have more than two years to make that deal and it not something that you want to rush or panic on (which is what desperate teams do).
Just makes it sound so easy. We have exactly enough assets (aka future 1st round picks only) to fire one more bullet and recent trade history suggests we can´t even hit a 7´4 target.
Especially given that Cuban refuses to add younger players that could develop into something next to Luka.
Jalen Smith has re-signed/will re-sign with the Pacers for 9/2 in case some missed it, while we haven chosen to give 20/3 to McGee after his own team rejected him in favour of Biyombo.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept - Smitty - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 07:02 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If you exempt Wood and Maxi from the outgoing and look at money matches for Powell/THJ, you end up with Powell/THJ/Green for T. Harris/Thybulle. The reason it isn't done is Philly is still working out details with Harden. They've already announced Tucker for the MLE, so they have to have a way to save some money. Maybe Harden plays nice and they are fine. Maybe he doesn't and Philly needs a money saving deal.
Starters: Wood/Harris/DFS/Bullock/Luka
Main Bench: McGee/Maxi/Thybulle/Dinwiddie
Deep Bench: Bertans/Frank/Hardy/Dragic
Of all fantasy trades this is still the most likely imo. I can’t get the reports of Mavs interest in Thybulle (playoff rotation wing) out of my head.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - ItsGoTime - 07-03-2022
With the Spurs probably open to taking it down to bare bones, Johnson does look like a possible wing type player we are looking for. At 6’6” with a wingspan at 6’9” and standing reach of 8’8” he is a physical specimen at 220 lbs. He’s more of a 3/4, but I think he replaces Bullock in the starting lineup and gives us more of the type of two way player we’re looking for.
If SA is really in on the race to the bottom, they need to figure out what to do with him and Poeltl, cause those two might just win them more games than they care to win.
I wonder if we are able to SnT Brunson for the TPE and remove protection on the 23, does Green or Frank/24 pick swap/25 frp get a deal done for Johnson? Probably not, but wonder if it is at least close to equal value.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - mvossman - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 10:34 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Just makes it sound so easy. We have exactly enough assets (aka future 1st round picks only) to fire one more bullet and recent trade history suggests we can´t even hit a 7´4 target.
Especially given that Cuban refuses to add younger players that could develop into something next to Luka.
Jalen Smith has re-signed/will re-sign with the Pacers for 9/2 in case some missed it, while we haven chosen to give 20/3 to McGee after his own team rejected him in favour of Biyombo.
I'm not saying it will be easy. I'm saying it does not need to be desperate, especially when our current access to future assets is limited. We can't afford to make another KP mistake, so the last thing we want to do right now is make a move because we feel like we have to.
I was a huge proponent of signing Jalen Smith, and have been vocal about my annoyance we went the McGee route instead of somebody like Jalen. But lets not misrepresent the McGee signing. His team got outbid for him, apparently by both us and the Bucks, and that is why they downshifted to Biyombo.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 11:09 AM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not saying it will be easy. I'm saying it does not need to be desperate, especially when our current access to future assets is limited. We can't afford to make another KP mistake, so the last thing we want to do right now is make a move because we feel like we have to.
I was a huge proponent of signing Jalen Smith, and have been vocal about my annoyance we went the McGee route instead of somebody like Jalen. But lets not misrepresent the McGee signing. His team got outbid for him, apparently by both us and the Bucks, and that is why they downshifted to Biyombo.
Maybe they liked Biyombo´s +11 NRtg in the play-offs more than McGee´s -4.1 NRtg and being played off the floor in both series.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - RDB - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 06:37 AM)Winter Wrote: When is the last time Kyrie was not a problem in the lockeroom?
He left a championship team in Cleveland in 2016-2017 and has generally been an annoying headline in both Boston and Brooklyn. Neither won a championship. So the last 5 years, he's an issue. And what if Covid rears its ugly head again?
Does anyone really think this is a gift to Doncic?
Winter, this isn’t directed at you but more as food for thought for the board. I just responded to your post because it included 2 topics that I thought might be revenant. I’m not making the case for Kyrie…just making a possible counter argument that may or may not be valid.
From a COVID standpoint, I guess that is potentially a concern but as a society, it seems like we have reached a new norm, so I personally don’t think we will see a replay of the early COVID days (who knows).
As far as Luka, I’m not sure if it would be a gift and if it were, it would likely only be temporary. However, what I would like to see is more evidence of how Luka works with a legit 2nd star…and love him or hate him, Kyrie is a star. I am a Luka fanboy but IMO, he get’s really ball dominate at times and our ball movement grinds to a halt. He likely feels like he has to be which is understandable considering what he has had around him during his Mavs career. Is it possible that Kyrie might be an inexpensive way to get more evidence on how and where to best support Luka with legit star quality players? If you could do so on a short term test without mortgaging your future, while at the same time potentially providing cap flexibility moving forward, might that have some value? Might the contract status of Kyrie improve the chances of good behavior? He may have some odd thoughts at times but I don’t think he wants to screw up his money. Others may think he is a complete moron but I just don’t see him coming in and blowing up a locker room in one season considering his contract situation and behavior this past year.
IMO, I’m not doing something crazy to acquire Kyrie but would 100% support the acquisition at the right price. If doing so gives us a better picture of our future roster needs before we have to make a significant investment in a 2nd/3rd wheel, all the better.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Mavs2021 - 07-03-2022
So let´s say Dragic doesn´t sign here for the minimum, since I am not very optimistic this happens. *queue your jokes*
I´m always wondering how much that is actually a Slovenian summer press(ure) thing. They probably get asked all the time during national team duty and what are they supposed to say?
Anyway we´ll need a 3rd playmaker.
The main younger options, whose services are probably not longer required by their teams are Sexton and White.
Unfortunately both these teams would be most interested in a wing like DFS, Bullock or Kleber, so that´s very unlikely to happen.
Now we enter draft capital compensation talks with Powell + X.
How much are you willing to give up. I´d draw the line at two seconds + $6M. Both would be a good upside gamble.
If neither Sexton/White, then I think a very interesting option could be Walker/Diallo.
It gives us two expiring contracts and fixes two open roster spots: back-up PG/3rd play-maker in Walker + defensive guard/wing in Diallo. Furthermore they are guys you can likely extend on very team friendly terms, if you wish.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 11:47 AM)RDB Wrote: IMO, I’m not doing something crazy to acquire Kyrie but would 100% support the acquisition at the right price.
But that's the rub. Just about everyone on this board can say that and mean it. It is ALL about the price.
Who would we give up? How many picks? First round picks? We're just now recovering from the Porzingas payment of picks. The next few years would be ugly.
How long do we get to keep Kyrie is he's successful? He walked out on both LeBron and Tatum. What do you think we would get for him in a trade if he's not successful? If he's not successful, I would venture to say he's trending downward and there's little return.
We're hoping to draw an inside straight, and we'll be paying this off for years if we lose.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Smitty - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 12:41 PM)Winter Wrote: But that's the rub. Just about everyone on this board can say that and mean it. It is ALL about the price.
Who would we give up? How many picks? First round picks? We're just now recovering from the Porzingas payment of picks. The next few years would be ugly.
How long do we get to keep Kyrie is he's successful? He walked out on both LeBron and Tatum. What do you think we would get for him in a trade if he's not successful? If he's not successful, I would venture to say he's trending downward and there's little return.
We're hoping to draw an inside straight, and we'll be paying this off for years if we lose.
Same applies to any Simmons trade as well.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 12:46 PM)Smitty Wrote: Same applies to any Simmons trade as well.
True(ish), but...in my mind, Simmons is less insane (just a hunch), and he's from Australia, not from NY. I feel like he's infinitely more likely to form a bond with Luka that motivates him and gives him confidence.
But yes, it's also a risk.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 12:46 PM)Smitty Wrote: Same applies to any Simmons trade as well.
In my mind, there's little difference. I think Simmons quit on people, so I would hope he proves himself elsewhere before the Mavs are involved.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 12:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: True(ish), but...in my mind, Simmons is less insane (just a hunch), and he's from Australia, not from NY. I feel like he's infinitely more likely to form a bond with Luka that motivates him and gives him confidence.
But yes, it's also a risk.
Personally I am supporting the "no lunatics" movement. But if I had to choose. Give me Simmons and his insecurities over "Flat Earth" Irving and "ReAwaken America" Isaac.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 01:03 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: "ReAwaken America" Isaac.
I am unfamiliar with this. My worries about Isaac are based solely on the fact that he has been badly injured for multiple seasons in a row.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I am unfamiliar with this. My worries about Isaac are based solely on the fact that he has been badly injured for multiple seasons in a row.
I am with Dirksfan on this one.
KillerLeft - Google Isaac and Reawaken America
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I am unfamiliar with this. My worries about Isaac are based solely on the fact that he has been badly injured for multiple seasons in a row.
During his "injury/vaccine refusal leave" Isaac wrote a book with Ben Shapiro. Now he is touring across the QAnon / far right / MAGA universe to promote it.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - KillerLeft - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 01:12 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: During his "injury/vaccine refusal leave" Isaac wrote a book with Ben Shapiro. Now he is touring across the far right / MAGA universe to promote it.
Lol, so he's alt right? Wouldn't have thought that.
My takeaway from that news is that maybe he's more interested in what he's doing off the court than he is in getting back on. Regardless of political disposition, I think that could potentially be concerning.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL "gearing up for big trade for wing"? | "unlikely" DP is kept? - Winter - 07-03-2022
(07-03-2022, 01:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: My takeaway from that news is that maybe he's more interested in what he's doing off the court than he is in getting back on. Regardless of political disposition, I think that could potentially be concerning.
And I fully realize that I'm drawing a line in the sand. A lot of people can just ignore head cases.
But I just can't.