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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - IamDougieFresh - 04-26-2023
(04-26-2023, 11:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I see Allen being traded for that wing, which unfortunately leaves the Mavs out.
Nah, Mavs and Timberwolves are the only 2 franchises that would do something like that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Mavs2021 - 04-27-2023
(04-26-2023, 09:26 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: As to the Gobert/Draymond comment, it will be interesting to see if the new CBA and new hires change philosophies for the smartest man in the room. A year ago, I might have agreed with your sentiment.
I don´t know. First thing I expect is to see the #10 pick gone for Capela. And given this is the Mavs, they´ll probably throw in Bullock/Green, because the Hawks refused to take THJ, Bertans or McGee to match the contracts. Then Cuban will say something like: when you have a chance to get a defensive anchor like Capela you need to give up some stuff.
So far we have heard: Need more experience in the front office. Need more experience on the bench. All the Mavs media pushing rumours about Gobert, Green, retaining Irving, trading picks. With the whole league trending toward younger rosters and the Mavs genereal disdain for draft picks and long-term building; let´s just say it seems like a good time for Cuban´s concept. On paper his usual targets like a Crowder or Beverley should become more available.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - IamDougieFresh - 04-27-2023
(04-27-2023, 01:57 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Crowder
Now that you mention it, it's the most obvious Cuban move. Textbook.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Jason Terry - 04-27-2023
Good ideas. I like the targeting of a big on a team that gets Wemby
Qualities of a big in order of importance:
1. Rim protection
2. Switchability
3. Rebounding
4. Stretch ability
5. Shot blocking
6. Pick and roll
I think the philosophy question should be: are we going to get a guy who needs drop coverage or are we going to play mainly switch everything? I think the better way is switching, so that should be important
As far as pick and roll i think we can get that from a bench big fairly easily(vet min Powell?). Maybe the better value target is someone limited offensively who has the potential to grow into a passable 3 pt shooter
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - ItsGoTime - 04-27-2023
(04-26-2023, 11:22 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Nah, Mavs and Timberwolves are the only 2 franchises that would do something like that.I don’t understand, do something like what?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 04-27-2023
(04-27-2023, 06:22 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Qualities of a big in order of importance:
1. Rim protection
2. Switchability
3. Rebounding
4. Stretch ability
5. Shot blocking
6. Pick and roll
Derek Lively grades:
1. Rim protection - Excellent
2. Switchability - Able
3. Rebounding - Good
4. Stretch ability - Able
5. Shot blocking - See 1
6. Pick and roll - Very Good
I didn't know Lively is just 19. If the Mavs trade down from 10, he'd be my number 1 trade down target.
He looks to me like a quicker Tyson Chandler with the ability to shoot from 3.
He is young and would take a while to develop, but I could see him being one of the league's top young Cs in year 3.
Maybe the Mavs can construct and execute a trade for 10+McGee+Bertans for say something like a proven wing defender + a pick somewhere between 15-22.
Lively to me seems like a very good investment.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Mavs32 - 04-27-2023
I would call Atlanta and offer to save them a ton of money and possibly a pick swap.
THJ, Bertans & McGhee for Capella,Collins, Bey as well as a pick swap of 10 for 15
with the 15th pick i take Lively and let him play behind those guys.
This saves Atlanta about $12mil this next year but more than $25mil the following year and they need room to keep Dejounte. this also allows them to play Okongu and get off Collins.
Collings to me is similar to Wood but with a better positional fit and seems to be a better professional. His defense is not good but i think he needs a reset away from Atlanta. im willing to bet that Luka and Kyrie can get better production from him than Trey did.
The mavs have their starting center, small forward and pf next year and a young big to develop. They would then also still have Maxi and their 2029 pick to make a move for another wing.
Kyrie/ Hardy
Luka/ Green
Bey/ FA
Collins/ Maxi
Capella/ Lively/ Powell
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - ItsGoTime - 04-27-2023
(04-27-2023, 09:26 AM)Mavs32 Wrote: I would call Atlanta and offer to save them a ton of money and possibly a pick swap.No chance they include Bey first and foremost. They are looking at the possibility of trading Trae. I imagine that haul will determine what other holes they need to fill. My guess is Capela and Collins for salary matching and #10 (no pick swap) is going to be an on par cost with what they actually get for the two, if they trade them at all after the Trae trade.
THJ, Bertans & McGhee for Capella,Collins, Bey as well as a pick swap of 10 for 15
with the 15th pick i take Lively and let him play behind those guys.
This saves Atlanta about $12mil this next year but more than $25mil the following year and they need room to keep Dejounte. this also allows them to play Okongu and get off Collins.
Collings to me is similar to Wood but with a better positional fit and seems to be a better professional. His defense is not good but i think he needs a reset away from Atlanta. im willing to bet that Luka and Kyrie can get better production from him than Trey did.
The mavs have their starting center, small forward and pf next year and a young big to develop. They would then also still have Maxi and their 2029 pick to make a move for another wing.
Kyrie/ Hardy
Luka/ Green
Bey/ FA
Collins/ Maxi
Capella/ Lively/ Powell
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Chicagojk - 04-27-2023
(04-27-2023, 02:48 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Now that you mention it, it's the most obvious Cuban move. Textbook.
Interesting year for Crowder. Did the Bucks really give up 5 second round picks for him? Were they real second round picks?
Crowder starts the year taking his ball and went home because he wasn't going to start. Only to sit most of the year and then is traded to a contender where he makes no impact and hardly plays down the stretch. Does he get more than a veteran minimum this offseason? He probably winds up in Miami or LAL and looks like a valuable role player again. Although, I am not sure he is going to have a lot of offers. We will see.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 04-27-2023
All of this Lively talk, I’ll have to go back and give him another look. My first impression was that he flashed great skills but was basically running around out there like an untrained puppy. Jaxson Hayes-esque. Seemed years away from being an NBA starter to me.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Mapka - 04-27-2023
(04-27-2023, 09:26 AM)Mavs32 Wrote: I would call Atlanta and offer to save them a ton of money and possibly a pick swap.
THJ, Bertans & McGhee for Capella,Collins, Bey as well as a pick swap of 10 for 15
with the 15th pick i take Lively and let him play behind those guys.
This saves Atlanta about $12mil this next year but more than $25mil the following year and they need room to keep Dejounte. this also allows them to play Okongu and get off Collins.
Collings to me is similar to Wood but with a better positional fit and seems to be a better professional. His defense is not good but i think he needs a reset away from Atlanta. im willing to bet that Luka and Kyrie can get better production from him than Trey did.
The mavs have their starting center, small forward and pf next year and a young big to develop. They would then also still have Maxi and their 2029 pick to make a move for another wing.
Kyrie/ Hardy
Luka/ Green
Bey/ FA
Collins/ Maxi
Capella/ Lively/ Powell
Collins has to get away from Capela. They are a catastrophic fit.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Ghost of Podkolzin - 04-27-2023
Ya, I don't see using #10 on Lively. Why only 20mins/game? Why so few rebounds?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - DanSchwartzgan - 04-30-2023
Somebody check my math, but I think there is a Kyrie deal that works for Lowry, Herro and Jovic at the draft even with Herro's Poison Pill. Demaris made some cryptic comment today about the Mav's offseason involving Miami. So, got me to thinking.....
Kyrie could do an extend and trade in the current season (I think the week either side of the draft is going to be crazy busy for trades to avoid the new CBA). Miami won't be able to do a S&T in the 23/24 season, so if Kyrie wants to go to Miami, it has to be pre 7/1. So, use Kyrie at $38.91 (includes trade kicker) as his outgoing number then he gets 2 years at 5% raises off of that.
Herro is PP. He counts as $5.722mm in one direction and $25.144mm in the other. So, the trick is to get the deal large enough that the 25% spreads on both numbers make for a legal trade. Lowry, Herro and Jovic count as $36.295mm outgoing. So, they can bring back up to $45.469mm. Lowry, Herro and Jovic count as $55.717 as incoming for Dallas. So, Dallas can send as little as $44.494mm. The trick is getting Dallas to send out something legal that lands between $45.469mm and $44.494mm. I think Irving, McGee and Hardy gets you there.
Irving is a better fit for the Bam/Jimmy window than Lowry. Meanwhile, Herro and Luka are very close in age and Jovic looks like he could develop into something. Add in 18 (Lively) and you've added a good bit of youth (not to mention Cason Wallace at 10 with Lowry giving him a year to adjust to the NBA). There would still be work to be done at center, but your 24 and under team would include Luka, Herro, Green, Jovic, Wallace, and Lively. You'd also have Lowry Reggie and Bertans as large expiring deals that could be traded. One negative to all of this (besides not fixing the C position in the near term) is you've added a bunch of salary. Jovic, Lowry #18 and Herro puts you over the first apron, but there is some room under the second apron for the TP MLE and some minimums to fill out the roster.
Dallas: Irving/McGee/Hardy
Miami: Lowry/Herro/Jovic/#18
MLE/Lively/Powell
Maxi/Jovic/Bertans
Green/THJ/Min
Herro/Reggie/Min
Luka/Lowry/Wallace
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Mavs2021 - 05-01-2023
I just have a question for the Locked on Mavs guys. All this crazy talk about trading all our assets for veterans like Capela, Lopez or Middleton is that based on you securing your credentials with Cuban for next year or actually what you hearing from the Mavs front office? If it´s the later, I´m calling Jalen Brunson´s dad to find me a new team. Not doing this sh*t again.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - F Gump - 05-02-2023
(04-30-2023, 11:50 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Somebody check my math, but I think there is a Kyrie deal that works for Lowry, Herro and Jovic at the draft even with Herro's Poison Pill.
I made a note about this in the other thread, but will leave one here as well.
While this idea is intriguing, I don't think Kyrie E&T is legal. So this would have to happen as a S&T in July, which would change all the numbers, removing the PPP from the equation, changing the possibilities for Kyrie contract, and being subject to the trade-matching rules of the new CBA (with whatever changes that might entail).
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023
Our depth chart as I see it:
PG: Kyrie/?/?
SG: Green/Hardy/?
SF: Luka/?/?
PF: ?/?/?
C: ?/?/?
I see the holes to be if there is a “?” in one of the first 2 spots on each line. The last “?” can be filled with vet mins/late FRPs/SRPs/undrafteds (either long term projects or vet presence guys). That means 6 holes we need filled.
Some explaining to do: I don’t think Green played well when asked to guard bigger guys. I think the jury is still out as to if he can be a good point of attack defender. That being said, if we keep him, I think his best role is at that off guard spot. Since Luka can play 1-4 pretty easily and Kyrie can’t be slotted into the 3 spot, that puts Luka at 3 and Kyrie at 1. I do kinda like putting a defender between Luka and Kyrie too so that works out. We still need to have 1 of Luka or Kyrie on the court at all times, and things really worked well having a 3 primary ball handler approach, so having a 3rd rotation worthy PG in the lineup helps with injury/load management as well as when they’re all healthy.
More explaining: I think Maxi is the biggest elephant in the room on my depth chart. I don’t hate Maxi, I just think he is better as a salary filler/possible trade asset to help fill so many needs. I wouldn’t be upset if they kept him this year, but finding him another home by the TDL is a must to me. I think we sold high on SD and DFS and need to do the same with Maxi.
Explaining con’t: Looking at that depth chart, THJ does not have a spot to fill effectively. The 2 SG spots are filled and if we play him as our backup 3, I think that’s a very poor decision and limits our playoff potential. Getting a good defending backup 3 is a priority. If we find a good package for Green and keep THJ, I think because of our 2 stars, THJ won’t work in that starting SG spot either. THJ, as has been shown since signing him, just doesn’t have a home on the Mavs squad. They’ve been trying to trade him ever since signing him. Hardy will be great to get us through the regular season with increased minutes and then can be the one who gets his minutes reduced for the playoffs as Luka and Kyrie take on bigger roles and hopefully the 3rd PG fits well as a playoff tested vet.
Should be self explanatory, nevertheless: Bullock and McGee are the other 2, should go players on the roster. Bullock was a horrible defender last year and he takes a couple months to ramp up his 3% every year. IF he can get back to playing solid to goo defense, he could be slotted in the backup 3 sopt. Otherwise, trade him for better fitting part(s). McGee is paid too much to be our 3rd C, so he should go if he can be slipped into a trade as salary filler. If not, he doesn’t fill a hole.
This also assumes Kyrie signs with us. We all seem to be collectively holding our breath for that outcome. Bracing for our annual kick to the Gortats.
Six holes to fill with our limited assets. Bullock, McGee, THJ, Maxi, the hope and prayer of a Wood SnT, 23 or 24/25 FRP, 26 or 27 FRP, 30 SRP, hopefully some form of MLE and the BAE (also hopefully).
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - omahen - 05-04-2023
Nick and Isaac threw an interesting trade idea on their podcast. THJ+Bullock+pick for Hunter and Capella.
Why for Atlanta:
1. They are expensive (170 mil for next season) with all their vet players under contract for two more seasons and they need to pay Okongwu, Bey and Murray next season. This move saves them money both short and long term.
2. They get another quality pick and relatively cheap player in 2023, if the pick is #10 in 2023
3. Clears spot for Okongwu
4. They need shooting and both THJ and Bullock sort of provide that (if one looks at it positively)
On the other hand THJ and Bullock are a downgrade from Hunter, especially on defense, which Atlanta really needs as much as they can have because Trae. The move doesn't really improve them from quality point of view, just from financial point of view. Unless of course they hit the number 10 pick.
Capella and Hunter cover two positions of need for Mavs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - Jym - 05-04-2023
(05-04-2023, 07:07 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Our depth chart as I see it:
PG: Kyrie/?/?
SG: Green/Hardy/?
SF: Luka/?/?
PF: ?/?/?
C: ?/?/?
And if you start Green that means he'll be guarding SF if they have any scoring ability and he's just too small and light for that. Such a mess.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - omahen - 05-04-2023
(05-04-2023, 12:18 PM)Jym Wrote: And if you start Green that means he'll be guarding SF if they have any scoring ability and he's just too small and light for that. Such a mess.
That is why I think you need a good SF/PF defender
RE: ROSTER TALK: Kidd- we're going to see new faces. Morris: I'm back nxt year! - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023
(05-04-2023, 12:18 PM)Jym Wrote: And if you start Green that means he'll be guarding SF if they have any scoring ability and he's just too small and light for that. Such a mess.What Omahen said. Need to surround Luka with strong defenders (like we did with Dirk in Marion and TC). That way Luka guards the worst offensive player 3-5. Green can’t cover up because he has to cover the point of attack or the best offensive player between the opposing 1 & 2. That’s how we have to hide Kyrie.