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ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? - Printable Version

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RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - Time Machine Dirk - 03-01-2023

(03-01-2023, 02:13 PM)cow Wrote: I also think most teams would have issues building around Luka.  He's a transcendent offensive talent, but is a liability on the other end of the floor (some of that by his own choosing) and for as good is offensively, he's shown he doesn't naturally mesh with other players who need the ball.  KP was disaster but even Jalen, Din and now Kyrie feels more like a my-turn-your-turn situation than an offense.

In one way or another Luka is the issue. His biggest strength comes with a flaw at the same time: With less ball dominance his effectivity almost completely vanishes. The reason why it feels always like my-turn-your-turn is that Luka is still terrible off-ball, just standing on top of the three point line or on the side and watching or waiting to get a last second pass to bail out the possession. Either he is lazy, takes his rests in those situations or he doesn't really know what to do off-ball. (The fact that neither Carlisle nor Kidd could help him with that indicates that this one might not be on the coach.)

Watching last night's game I thought several times: Give me Miles Turner, a wing defender and a Jrue Holiday light, who can defend very well and keep the offense going when Luka is out, instead of Kyrie and we are good! Maybe it would be smart to look around the league and find a younger player who is under everyones radar and can be molded into this type of Jrue Holiday light.

Hot take: After first sceptical enthusiasm after the Kyrie trade I am not so sure anymore that this type of player - as good as he might be - will be the Mavs' and Luka's route to a chip. Remember: The two offensive stars in the backcourt without good defense experiment never was successful in the near past. Best example: Dame Lillard and CJ
At the moment the Mavs are basically the Dame-CJ-Trailblazers tbh, which is not a good outlook. Most important: We need a reliable rim protector to clean up the Luka blow-bys. Maxi isn't the solution to the puzzle, he is just one smaller piece which will enhance the necessary bigger piece.

Edit: Maybe Lonzo Ball would be the guard I would put next to Luka if he will ever be really healthy again. Caruso could maybe also work. However I'm not so sure he would be enough of a passer/floor general/creator.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - HoosierDaddyKid - 03-01-2023

(03-01-2023, 03:10 PM)Time Machine Dirk Wrote: In one way or another Luka is the issue. His biggest strength comes with a flaw at the same time: With less ball dominance his effectivity almost completely vanishes. The reason why it feels always like my-turn-your-turn is that Luka is still terrible off-ball, just standing on top of the three point line or on the side and watching or waiting to get a last second pass to bail out the possession. Either he is lazy, takes his rests in those situations or he doesn't really know what to do off-ball. (The fact that neither Carlisle nor Kidd could help him with that indicates that this one might not be on the coach.)

Watching last night's game I thought several times: Give me Miles Turner, a wing defender and a Jrue Holiday light, who can defend very well and keep the offense going when Luka is out, instead of Kyrie and we are good! Maybe it would be smart to look around the league and find a younger player who is under everyones radar and can be molded into this type of Jrue Holiday light.

Hot take: After first sceptical enthusiasm after the Kyrie trade I am not so sure anymore that this type of player - as good as he might be - will be the Mavs' and Luka's route to a chip. Remember: The two offensive stars in the backcourt without good defense experiment never was successful in the near past. Best example: Dame Lillard and CJ
At the moment the Mavs are basically the Dame-CJ-Trailblazers tbh, which is not a good outlook. Most important: We need a reliable rim protector to clean up the Luka blow-bys. Maxi isn't the solution to the puzzle, he is just one smaller piece which will enhance the necessary bigger piece.

Edit: Maybe Lonzo Ball would be the guard I would put next to Luka if he will ever be really healthy again. Caruso could maybe also work. However I'm not so sure he would be enough of a passer/floor general/creator.


Good post. Luka looks like he's a blessing and a curse at the same time. This will be a tough one to figure out going forward. Next two games are vs Philly and Phoenix.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - MaxiThreeba - 03-01-2023

In a sign that I should probably unplug from the Mavs;

My wife and I started watching the show Billions.  We were sitting there the other night and in one of the episodes, Cubes pops up in a cameo.  I instantly said, "oh dammit come on" and got a very confused look from the Mrs.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - SleepingHero - 03-01-2023

(03-01-2023, 04:48 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: I instantly said, "oh dammit come on" and got a very confused look from the Mrs.



https://media.giphy.com/media/MwOuiiTfWfWgM/giphy.gif

Live look at me also just starting to watch Billions and saw Cuban (I quickly stopped watching).


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - Jason Terry - 03-01-2023

(03-01-2023, 12:36 PM)F Gump Wrote: I've said it many times, and it bears repeating ---

Until Cuban hires an EXPERT (and takes himself out of the equation, fully empowering the expert) to handle the player evaluation, negotiation, drafting, development, and all the other roster-building tasks, the Mavs will continue to blunder their way along. It's a GM's league, there are only 30 teams, and the competition has EXPERTS who are actively competing against the Mavs.

The fact that Cuban chose to replace Donnie with a man who has none of those skills, and will be learning on the job while competing against others who are miles ahead and also learning more skills, it was a terrible choice. They needed an expert, and got a kindergartner. While we are disappointed by what's going on, none of these results should be surprising.

They still have no clue how to get players who are two-way talents -- in particular, those who can defend -- so how are they going to fix this? Blind leading the blind.
Cuban just cannot help himself. No different than Jerry Jones. It’s frustrating. And the media propaganda machine makes it worse 

Grew up a Cowboys fan as a kid. At some point in the Romo era i had enough as a fan. Started to enjoy watching them lose. Then stopped watching entirely unless they had a player on my fantasy football team in their game. My life is better now without that in it. My kids will never care about them

I’m not there yet with Cuban and the mavs. It’s frustrating we can’t have a professional organization and will have a perpetual disadvantage because of Cuban. I have accepted it. There’s still part of me that believes we can overcome this like we did in 2011. This is Dirk’s franchise, he built it not Cuban. I feel like we all owe it to Dirk to keep watching. Dude was so loyal to us. 

These games are hard to watch though


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - Chicagojk - 03-02-2023

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/3/2/23621603/kyrie-irving-luka-doncic-fit-dallas-mavericks

I know Green is not a player without warts and I assume he is going to hit the wall at some point.  But any games where he is not in foul trouble where he doesn't get near 30 minutes a night and get closing minutes I am going to call this a failure.   This is the perfect time for both the short term and long term to get him valuable minutes with Luka and Kyrie.   Sure there may be times where I may want Bullock's size and shooting on the floor late, but that is going to be the exception.   

The decision to limit his minutes doesn't make sense for the now or the future.   If the moment gets too big for him, that is fine.   But lets find out on the court.   It will be great for his development.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - cow - 03-02-2023

(03-01-2023, 06:31 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: Cuban just cannot help himself. No different than Jerry Jones. It’s frustrating. And the media propaganda machine makes it worse 

Grew up a Cowboys fan as a kid. At some point in the Romo era i had enough as a fan. Started to enjoy watching them lose. Then stopped watching entirely unless they had a player on my fantasy football team in their game. My life is better now without that in it. My kids will never care about them

I’m not there yet with Cuban and the mavs. It’s frustrating we can’t have a professional organization and will have a perpetual disadvantage because of Cuban. I have accepted it. There’s still part of me that believes we can overcome this like we did in 2011. This is Dirk’s franchise, he built it not Cuban. I feel like we all owe it to Dirk to keep watching. Dude was so loyal to us. 

These games are hard to watch though

Hard to imagine but the Mavs are run far worse than the Cowboys.  We'd all be doing backflips to have a Will McClay as part of the MBT.  As bad as Jerry can be, he can market, pitch and recruit which is something Cuban seems clueless about.  I don't think pundits and fans would be asking the question of "why don't free agents want to come to Dallas" if the Jones family was in charge.  I stopped watching the Cowboys for a while too because of frustration and it is really hard to imagine that I'd be defending the ownership, but Cuban is that terrible.  Then again, we'd probably have Vinny Del Negro as our coach if Jerry was running the show.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - omahen - 03-02-2023

I think the only thing Mavs can do to change the season is a shock therapy with a coaching change. And then don't fall in love with potential short term success. Something Atlanta did first well with the shock therapy and then failed because he wasn't the long term guy.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - Mavs2021 - 03-02-2023

LMAO at the thread title. I had completely erased Bertans from my mind. Big Grin


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - Jym - 03-02-2023

(03-02-2023, 10:24 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: But any games where he(Green) is not in foul trouble where he doesn't get near 30 minutes a night and get closing minutes I am going to call this a failure. 


quoted for truth


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - MaxiThreeba - 03-02-2023

JB:
24 ppg, 6 apg, 4 rpg on 49/41/84 splits

KP:
23 ppg, 9 rpg, 1.5 bpg on 49/38/85 splits



The Mavs had two players capable of putting up 23+ppg on highly efficient shooting splits.  All they had to do was let Luka put up Jokic's regular season stat line instead of continuing to run a "system" that is nothing but...help us Luka, you're our only hope.

Mark Cuban was handed a generational talent in Dirk, and wasted a good chunk of his career.  Mark Cuban overruled his GM's desire to draft a generational talent in Giannis.  Mark Cuban has made just about every wrong decision you could possibly make in building around YET ANOTHER generational talent in Luka.

Mark Cuban hates Europeans.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - SkenfromLMF - 03-02-2023

Green has already hit the wall...
He is back to being the player he was last year that couldn't hit from outside and is basically a transition player, who has moments of outstanding play followed by a majority of unproductive minutes.

the question becomes what is better for the team? 
I think Green continues to get minutes... but he might need to be on the Maxi restriction, no matter how much of a fail that appears to be on the outside.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - omahen - 03-02-2023

(03-02-2023, 03:08 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: Green has already hit the wall...
He is back to being the player he was last year that couldn't hit from outside and is basically a transition player, who has moments of outstanding play followed by a majority of unproductive minutes.


??? Green is shooting 40 % from three on 4.5 attempts per game in his last 10 games. He is shooting 60 % from three on 2.5 attempts in his last two games where his minutes were reduced to less than 20 per game.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - DallasMaverick - 03-02-2023

(03-02-2023, 10:24 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/3/2/23621603/kyrie-irving-luka-doncic-fit-dallas-mavericks

I know Green is not a player without warts and I assume he is going to hit the wall at some point.  But any games where he is not in foul trouble where he doesn't get near 30 minutes a night and get closing minutes I am going to call this a failure.   This is the perfect time for both the short term and long term to get him valuable minutes with Luka and Kyrie.   Sure there may be times where I may want Bullock's size and shooting on the floor late, but that is going to be the exception.   

The decision to limit his minutes doesn't make sense for the now or the future.   If the moment gets too big for him, that is fine.   But lets find out on the court.   It will be great for his development.

This is a pretty good article.  Talks frankly about the challenges involved in integrating a new player.

I realize the sentiment on this board, at least, is pretty pessimistic.  But the losses have all been really close, and could easily have been wins. But knee-jerk negativity usually prevails.

I'm hopeful they can figure it out before the season ends.  And perhaps even be a team that no one wants to face in the playoffs.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - sefant - 03-02-2023

I mean you could argue the guys that at least struggling are Luka (after heel injury) + Wood (after finger injury and Kidd's handling) + Green (confidence?) + and Bullock (still being washed??) getting starters minutes is causing the most problems. Powell is totally matchup dependent. But has been rather shit recently. But the alternative Wood hasn't been any better.

Kyrie minutes with Luka on the bench working way better than Luka minutes with Kyrie on the bench. Wether thats a Luka problem or a Wood problem or a rotation problem or just chemistry or just coincidence.

Last 9 games:

Mavs collapse without THJ: -7.7 net
Mavs collapse without Kyrie: -6.8 net

Those is basically a reflection of the Luka only minutes being a struggle. Kyrie is +23 without Luka. Luka is -23 without Kyrie. Both are +4 together.


Bullock in the last 9 games:

Bullock on: DefRtg 120.2
Bullock off: DefRtg 107.9

THJ in the last 9 games:

THJ on: DefRtg 112.8
THJ off: DefRtg 121.5

Exclamation Thats minus 12.3 for Bullock yikes. The next worst is Luka at minus 5.7. Followed by Wood at minus 4.3.


Not even surprised that Itzok mentioned on the podcast that Bullock causing the most blow bys on the team by synergy this year. That he is still being used as a primary option is foolish imo. I am not sure how the coaching staff haven't figured that one out. Despite Green struggles i think he is the better fit in the starting lineup and for 30 min+. A team that has trouble running back. Green offers more positive things than Bullock, i don't think its a question for me.

Bullock needs to come on the bench in my opinion. And not play starter minutes.

I think i prefer Green/Holiday or Green/THJ over any Bullock combo at this point.


Yuck i might be the only one but Frank should be a regular option from the bench. In a 5-10 MPG stint. The Mavs are +31.4 net in the 83 minutes with him on the floor since the trade. You have defensive problems and you nail the dude that had the best defensive splits in the last 9 games to the bench.

DefRtg Frank on 103.9
DefRtg Frank off 118.9

Last 9 games your top 3 are Tim +66, Kyrie +62 and Frank +41.

Hardy +30. Holiday +16. Kleber +9. The bottom 3: Green -11, Wood -22, Luka -24.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - Chicagojk - 03-02-2023

(03-02-2023, 03:12 PM)omahen Wrote: ??? Green is shooting 40 % from three on 4.5 attempts per game in his last 10 games. He is shooting 60 % from three on 2.5 attempts in his last two games where his minutes were reduced to less than 20 per game.

Yeah, I don't get that.

There is a difference between hitting the wall and having a few poor games.   Green is going to have some rough spots and maybe he does indeed hit a wall. But for now, he needs minutes to grow.   Him and Jaden are really important to our future.  Jaden has probably gotten his minutes for the year, but next year he better be in the rotation.   Now is the time for Green.    

Green is also a connector and those are the type of guys we need to be looking for.   I know we spend a lot of time of making our next big move.  In reality, this team needs another Green type player (hopefully bigger).


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - SwisherPrice - 03-02-2023

Go get Dragic. Release whoever you have to...even if it's Wood. This team needs that 3rd PG badly


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - DallasMaverick - 03-02-2023

(03-02-2023, 10:04 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: Go get Dragic. Release whoever you have to...even if it's Wood. This team needs that 3rd PG badly

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35770878/milwaukee-bucks-sign-goran-dragic-soon-friday


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi delayed a bit longer, Prob out vs. Lakers | Holiday 15pts in debut - The Jom - 03-02-2023

(03-01-2023, 12:36 PM)F Gump Wrote: I've said it many times, and it bears repeating ---

Until Cuban hires an EXPERT (and takes himself out of the equation, fully empowering the expert) to handle the player evaluation, negotiation, drafting, development, and all the other roster-building tasks, the Mavs will continue to blunder their way along. It's a GM's league, there are only 30 teams, and the competition has EXPERTS who are actively competing against the Mavs.

The fact that Cuban chose to replace Donnie with a man who has none of those skills, and will be learning on the job while competing against others who are miles ahead and also learning more skills, it was a terrible choice. They needed an expert, and got a kindergartner. While we are disappointed by what's going on, none of these results should be surprising.

They still have no clue how to get players who are two-way talents -- in particular, those who can defend -- so how are they going to fix this? Blind leading the blind.


I can’t read this without wondering if the entire premise is disproved by the 90s Bulls. Their GM imho was one of the biggest idiots in league history. And yet, 6 rings. Sure, that was a long time ago. But I’m just having a hard time believing this has become a GM’s league. Very hard. If this team fails, it’s because of Luka or Kyrie or both. That’s how I see it anyway.


RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi Returns! | Bertans still out - The Jom - 03-02-2023

(03-02-2023, 03:12 PM)omahen Wrote: ??? Green is shooting 40 % from three on 4.5 attempts per game in his last 10 games. He is shooting 60 % from three on 2.5 attempts in his last two games where his minutes were reduced to less than 20 per game.


Good observations. I see a remarkably fit young athlete outrunning, outjumping, and outhustling the competition. And then I see him breathing hard. Really hard. Like he’s winded. Which, no wonder. As a matter of simple physics it has to take more effort to do the physical things he’s doing. So maybe the reduced minutes make sense? I dunno.