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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - SleepingHero - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 12:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think many of us would be surprised at how popular of a target Powell would be in FA...south of a certain dollar amount, obviously. I'd be pretty shocked if he didn't make it onto a number of teams' short lists for MLE targets.
I wouldn't be so sure. While Powell is definitely affecting winning here and he's been an invaluable piece due to his sheer effort, there is a clear gradation in the league. The MLE will be close to 12 mil.
First you got your superstars (North of $180 mil w/an average AAV of $40 mil a year).
Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Gobert, and Davis.
Then a slight drop off to the all-star caliber guys ($120-160mil)
Ayton, Bam, Vucevic, Allen.
Then you have everyone else.
Powell is currently making $11 mil. Some guys that are making more than him:
Nurkic (17.5)
Adams (17.5)
Valanciunas (15)
Mitchell Robinson (15)
Gafford (13)
WCJr (12.5)
Timelord (12)
I don't think any NBA team will be giving Powell a raise to bring him close to the Nurkic/Adams/Valanciunas level nor is he worth that. 11 mil is already on the high end for Powell, especially when you got guys like Zubac, Hartenstein, Theis, Claxton, and Looney all making significantly less than him and have all shown to be impactful centers on winning teams.
I know you aren't making an emphatic statement that Powell is going to be money whipped, but I just can't see the team this summer throwing him more than what he's already getting (which is already an overpay). Further will Powell go out of his way to leave the one place he's excelled at?
https://twitter.com/MavsPR/status/1624090912639922184?cxt=HHwWkMC9rZGF94ktAAAA
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - MaxiThreeba - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 01:14 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I wouldn't be so sure. While Powell is definitely affecting winning here and he's been an invaluable piece due to his sheer effort, there is a clear gradation in the league. The MLE will be close to 12 mil.
First you got your superstars (North of $180 mil w/an average AAV of $40 mil a year).
Jokic, Embiid, Towns, Gobert, and Davis.
Then a slight drop off to the all-star caliber guys ($120-160mil)
Ayton, Bam, Vucevic, Allen.
Then you have everyone else.
Powell is currently making $11 mil. Some guys that are making more than him:
Nurkic (17.5)
Adams (17.5)
Valanciunas (15)
Mitchell Robinson (15)
Gafford (13)
WCJr (12.5)
Timelord (12)
I don't think any NBA team will be giving Powell a raise to bring him close to the Nurkic/Adams/Valanciunas level nor is he worth that. 11 mil is already on the high end for Powell, especially when you got guys like Zubac, Hartenstein, Theis, Claxton, and Looney all making significantly less than him and have all shown to be impactful centers on winning teams.
I know you aren't making an emphatic statement that Powell is going to be money whipped, but I just can't see the team this summer throwing him more than what he's already getting (which is already an overpay). Further will Powell go out of his way to leave the one place he's excelled at?
Looking at Kevon Looney...Powell is 4.5 years older than Looney. Looney's deal he signed this offseason was 3 for $22.5 with the last year partially guaranteed.
I love what DP brings to the table and he is a consummate professional. That said, his deal should 100% fall below that Looney deal.
Powell should honestly be the one on the McGee deal, but instead of giving a stupid PO in year 3, the FO should be savvy enough to make that a TO or at the very least partially guarantee that year just like GSW did with Looney (who is a better, younger player!)
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - Scott41theMavs - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 01:14 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:
https://twitter.com/MavsPR/status/1624090912639922184?cxt=HHwWkMC9rZGF94ktAAAA
Is it just my sky-is-falling instincts, or should re-signing Silva make us worry that either we aren't candidates for any of the buyout candidates, or that the Mavs love our boys in blue?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - KillerLeft - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 01:45 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Is it just my sky-is-falling instincts, or should re-signing Silva make us worry that either we aren't candidates for any of the buyout candidates, or that the Mavs love our boys in blue?
I don't know if it means the sky is falling, but I'd say your read on the implications of this news is right on point.
I am officially giving up on any buyout hopes. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I think we'll be seeing "9th man by committee" down the stretch and in the playoffs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - SleepingHero - 02-10-2023
https://twitter.com/CallieCaplan/status/1624137325277220864?s=20&t=siaVEQUEwITWi4dkNfmg9A
Luka has had a lot of good nuggets in this post practice interview.
https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/status/1624142215022018560?cxt=HHwWgIDU8amvjootAAAA
I think Luka is ready to run
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva to Mavs - mvossman - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 11:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: I don't know what team will be throwing money at Powell. He's not a splashy FA signing.
I've actually come around and figure he'd be worth a 3/33 extension. If only because the Mavs need contracts around that value to package in a trade.
I need to see some production in the playoffs before I get near to that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - SleepingHero - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:46 PM)mvossman Wrote: I need to see some production in the playoffs before I get near to that.
That's fair. Powell hasn't been used much in the playoffs outside of an energy guy and the Mavs were abused by Looney last year and Powell could do nothing.
BUT he has been really good this year and last year in the regular season. I'd value that play around 6-7 mil at least. I went up to 11 mil solely because his use as a potential trade piece. THJ+Powell gets you to 30 mil very easily.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - ItsGoTime - 02-10-2023
I can’t believe people are talking about paying Dwight Powell more than vet min…
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - SleepingHero - 02-10-2023
https://twitter.com/CallieCaplan/status/1624118291408240641?cxt=HHwWgoDSieW-g4otAAAA
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - KillerLeft - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:52 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I can’t believe people are talking about paying Dwight Powell more than vet min…
I think he’s worth more, easily.
I mean, he is no JaVale McGee, but…
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - SleepingHero - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:52 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I can’t believe people are talking about paying Dwight Powell more than vet min…
These last two years Powell has proven to be a pretty invaluable role player. His deficiencies are well noted and he falls a bit short of being a proper starter, but his chemistry with Luka, ability to keep up on the perimeter, and willingness to do the dirty work EVERY night makes him worth way more than the vet min.
If McGee is getting 5 mil a year, Powell should be making at least that.
Don't misread me. My endorsement for a Powell extension isn't because I have morphed into Mak and drank from the Diamond fountain. I don't think he should be getting more than 15-18mpg, and even if Powell is here for the long term the Mavs still need to find a long term starting 5.
Powell has shown he works with Luka very well, and we shouldn't take that for granted.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva to Mavs - KillerLeft - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:46 PM)mvossman Wrote: I need to see some production in the playoffs before I get near to that.
If by “production” you mean points or rebounds, I bet you don’t see too much of that. But, you might see a load of possessions where he screens three times within one 10 second period to get Luka or Kyrie an easy attempt or an easy passing lane. And I bet that, just like last year, he’ll have a healthy +/- relative to the other bigs.
I am one of Christian Wood’s biggest fans here, but it sure seems like what Powell brings to the table carries more value than what he gets credit for around here.
I would much rather spend the MLE on Powell than on McGee (meaning salary range, not the literal MLE).
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva to Mavs - mvossman - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If by “production” you mean points or rebounds, I bet you don’t see too much of that. But, you might see a load of possessions where he screens three times within one 10 second period to get Luka or Kyrie an easy attempt or an easy passing lane. And I bet that, just like last year, he’ll have a healthy +/- relative to the other bigs.
I am one of Christian Wood’s biggest fans here, but it sure seems like what Powell brings to the table carries more value than what he gets credit for around here.
I would much rather spend the MLE on Powell than on McGee.
Powell played less than 14 minutes a game in the playoffs when this team was paper thin on bigs. I'm not looking for eye popping stats, but 3 and 3 is not going to cut it.
Powell is obviously worth more than McGee and I would not have an issue paying the tax MLE for him. I just think 11 is a little steep.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva to Mavs - KillerLeft - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 04:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: Powell played less than 14 minutes a game in the playoffs when this team was paper thin on bigs. I'm not looking for eye popping stats, but 3 and 3 is not going to cut it.
Powell is obviously worth more than McGee and I would not have an issue paying the tax MLE for him. I just think 11 is a little steep.
I don’t disagree with any of this, really, but I might push back at those claiming his minutes got cut because he was “unplayable”.
I think that the majority of what went into that decision, rather than him playing worse than normal, was the realization that 5-out was the best way to attack Gobert and Ayton. Especially Gobert.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - ItsGoTime - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:57 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: These last two years Powell has proven to be a pretty invaluable role player. His deficiencies are well noted and he falls a bit short of being a proper starter, but his chemistry with Luka, ability to keep up on the perimeter, and willingness to do the dirty work EVERY night makes him worth way more than the vet min.Dude, do you realize you just described an older vet min player? Off the bench for 15-18 mpg? That’s also without talking about age. I have no problem with Powell being on the team in that role, but for the money you guys are talking about? Also, overpaying him so we have salary matching in a trade? I really can’t believe what I’m reading.
If McGee is getting 5 mil a year, Powell should be making at least that.
Don't misread me. My endorsement for a Powell extension isn't because I have morphed into Mak and drank from the Diamond fountain. I don't think he should be getting more than 15-18mpg, and even if Powell is here for the long term the Mavs still need to find a long term starting 5.
Powell has shown he works with Luka very well, and we shouldn't take that for granted.
(02-10-2023, 03:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think he’s worth more, easily.Javale was paid what he was paid because they thought he was better than Powell. That’s literally all that should be said about what they think Powell’s worth is.
I mean, he is no JaVale McGee, but…
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - KillerLeft - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 04:22 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Javale was paid what he was paid because they thought he was better than Powell. That’s literally all that should be said about what they think Powell’s worth is.
And clearly, that evaluation has been altered, somewhat. It's really simple to put that all on the "McGee is disappointing" side of the scale, but I don't know that it's the truth. I think they were very, very silly to think what they thought.
BOTH players have been pretty much EXACTLY as good as I expected them to be, fwiw.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - cow - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 03:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think he’s worth more, easily.
I mean, he is no JaVale McGee, but…
I think he's probably a veteran minimum guy. I'd let the market dictate his value but if I'm his agent, McGee's deal is my starting point.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - mvossman - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 04:22 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Dude, do you realize you just described an older vet min player? Off the bench for 15-18 mpg? That’s also without talking about age. I have no problem with Powell being on the team in that role, but for the money you guys are talking about? Also, overpaying him so we have salary matching in a trade? I really can’t believe what I’m reading.
Who are all of these vet min guys that get you 15-18 quality minutes off the bench? The Mavs spend exception money on guys that don't get close to that. Maybe with Kyrie we will start to attract quality vet min guys, but it has never been the norm.
Powell currently has the highest net rating on the team. There is a lot of noise in that, but his production has been well over vet min. You can make a strong argument that it's not MLE level, especially since he is a big and they are cheap, but he is significantly more than your typical vet min.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva signs 2nd 10-day - ItsGoTime - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 05:08 PM)cow Wrote: I think he's probably a veteran minimum guy. I'd let the market dictate his value but if I'm his agent, McGee's deal is my starting point.Exactly and I don’t know that there is even 1 team that wants to pay a 32 yo backup C any more than vet min, let alone the full MLE. Say what you guys will about counting stats, but teams pay for them and consequently don’t pay for the lack of them.
(02-10-2023, 05:13 PM)mvossman Wrote: Who are all of these vet min guys that get you 15-18 quality minutes off the bench? The Mavs spend exception money on guys that don't get close to that. Maybe with Kyrie we will start to attract quality vet min guys, but it has never been the norm.Name the teams that are paying Dwight Powell more than vet min this offseason.
Powell currently has the highest net rating on the team. There is a lot of noise in that, but his production has been well over vet min. You can make a strong argument that it's not MLE level, especially since he is a big and they are cheap, but he is significantly more than your typical vet min.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi should return post ASB | Silva to Mavs - HoosierDaddyKid - 02-10-2023
(02-10-2023, 12:07 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: https://twitter.com/Chriswood_5/status/1621694937699057668?s=20&t=MW7OaH5v38JzQ99_Wkyygg
Like this one? I'm all for confidence but he clearly sees himself as an All-Star. I saw this myself and immediately cringed. But is it irrational? I don't think so. Maybe it's more about fit. Maybe Kidd just thinks they don't need an offense-minded All-Star center. Maybe it's about pairing Luka with a dirty work big who sets screens and defends.
Maybe all the shade the Mavs are throwing at Wood is about getting him on a team-friendly contract!? I'm skeptical, but we'll find out if/when the Mavs offer one.
You do have some folks who know a lot more about basketball than me, who think Wood should be an All-Star
https://twitter.com/realStanVG/status/1609223752369184768?s=20&t=muiht7ssA_XVKv5Rk_n1HQ
Anything SVG says I take with a grain of salt. The guy who drafted Luke Kennard over Donovan Mitchell after telling him he was picking him, and taking Stanley Johnson over Devin Booker in 2015. Right, Stan... Wood is no AS.