(02-07-2023, 03:51 PM)Smitty Wrote: Ayton is not worth including Green or Hardy.

But getting off of THJ and knowing Wood is and always was a rental. Getting back Ayton AND Crowder is worth a FRP from the Mavs imo.

(02-07-2023, 03:50 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: Green and Hardy are deal breakers for me.  I am hoping the reports that Mavs FO is prioritizing keeping those two are a hard line for them as well.

(02-07-2023, 03:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs happily played small ball against the Suns. Would argue that Kleber clearly outplayed him in playoffs.

(02-07-2023, 03:52 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: I'm tired of everyone proposing deals with the Knicks where they "lift protections".  If the Mavs are taking on Fournier, I just want the 2023 back.  After all, it'll only be in the mid-20's anyway.

(02-07-2023, 02:39 PM)F Gump Wrote: The Collins contract is an issue for ATL (and anyone) in comparison to his play. After this season, he is owed another 79M. That's a lot to choke down for his present level of play. No way Mavs trade for him PLUS send them an unprotected 1st.

I'd work around the idea of Wood for Collins. Or maybe expand it.

Something like ...?
Wood-THJ-McGee ... (total future years salary is about 46M)
FOR
Collins-Bogey ....(total future years salary is about 97M)

(02-07-2023, 03:53 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think it's crystal clear that Green is in the team's plans FOR SURE. 

I think they value Hardy very highly, and rightfully so, but I doubt he's untouchable, and it really all depends on what you think of the return. If they think they are a 5 away from contention as early as THIS THURSDAY, and they think Ayton solves that issue (not sure I agree with either thought) then I bet they wouldn't hesitate to include Hardy.

(02-07-2023, 03:57 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I am basing my trade expectations on a simple formula. Compared to popular fan proposals...

Mavs have to pay plus one 1st round pick
Mavs receive minus one 1st round pick

If the Mavs want to make another big move they need to deal with the Knicks. Knicks hold all the cards. And based on the last few deals they aren´t going to gift the Mavs anything.

(02-07-2023, 04:06 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: I'm also biased because I think Hardy has Jordan Poole potential and his value to the Mavs and/or in a trade isn't anywhere close to what it will be in a season or two.

(02-07-2023, 04:10 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: Secondly, why do people act like the Knicks are gonna stick it to the Mavs to lift the protections.  Shit, if the Mavs called and asked if they wanted to do this for nothin' they'd be like "Done, Son!!!!!"  This is the freakin' Wemby draft.  Scouts have said he's Lebron and Duncan all rolled into one.  Hey, shit happens and the Mavs are a Luka sprained ankle away from being in the lottery.  You think the Knicks would like even a 1% chance at landing Wemby for free????  Of course they would!!!!

(02-07-2023, 04:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Right there with you. Maybe better than Poole, even. 

It's really just about what they think of Ayton. Even on this board, we have a range of "don't want him" to "he's the single best center for this team in the sport." Which camp would Cuban/Harrison/Finley/Kidd/Luka be closer to? No idea. But if they like him as much as @"SleepingHero" and @"DanSchwartzgan" do, I'm telling you now, they're not going to let Hardy, who they're probably hoping won't even be in this year's playoff rotation, hold up the deal. 

And, there is no way the Suns let a former #1 pick, a guy half their fan base is still trying to con themselves into thinking is better than Luka, go for an expiring Wood, THJ and one first. That first being unprotected means it's way better than the typical picks that get thrown into these kind of deals, and trust me, I get that, but the tweets won't read like that. That won't be the new owner's first approved move. 

Everyone argued with me not two days ago when I was saying the Mavs would have to pay a lot for Irving. And they did. I would be pretty surprised if the Mavs somehow got Ayton AND Crowder at the deadline, but I'd be SHOCKED if it happens and they don't have to give up Hardy in the process. 

Me? I'd be far more interested in a simpler deal centered around Wood for Collins. I wouldn't want Ayton if he was a gift.

(02-07-2023, 04:10 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: First off, Fournier has big negative value.  Taking him off their hands for Bullock's nice contract is hardly deserving of just a "gift".

Secondly, why do people act like the Knicks are gonna stick it to the Mavs to lift the protections?  Shit, if the Mavs called and asked if they wanted to do this for nothin' they'd be like "Done, Son!!!!!"  This is the freakin' Wemby draft.  Scouts have said he's Lebron and Duncan all rolled into one.  Hey, shit happens and the Mavs are a Luka sprained ankle away from being in the lottery.  You think the Knicks wouldn't like even a 1% chance at landing Wemby for free????  Of course they would!!!!

(02-07-2023, 03:40 PM)F Gump Wrote: THJ, Wood, McGee  ...for.... Collins, Bogey
OR
Unprotected 1st, THJ, Wood, McGee  ...for.... Ayton, Crowder

Which?

(02-07-2023, 03:57 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think this type of trade could happen in the offseason.  But it is going to take more than we think...doesn't it always.   I am confident they would not include Green.  Less sure about Hardy.  I would hate to lose him in his infancy of development.

It the Suns flame out in the playoffs and Chris Paul is a year older, I could see them looking at themselves in the mirror.  But I think they are still all in this year to win a championship.   In a wide open west and Booker coming back, I think that is fair.  

You also have to remember, they could be in a Durant sweepstakes this offseason and supposedly the Nets were not fans of Ayton.  So two picks from Dallas unprotected and pick swaps could increase their offer....only if the Nets decide they are not trying to win now.  Those picks could help for other guys too.  

So it wouldn't shock me if the offer was wood, Hardy, two picks and pick swaps.   I would really hope we could keep Hardy out.   With all the picks, we probably get Crowder too.   I just don't think now is the time for such a big move from the Suns who have been playing better ball.

(02-07-2023, 04:22 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: No one wanted  to give up DFS and a 1st for Kyrie. Still happened. Like it or not. More often than not the Mavs pay more than the majority of posters is willing to give up. I have stopped fighting every single proposed trade but I will stick to my own evaluations when it comes to my proposals.

Not about sticking it to the Mavs. Just them knowing that they control the Mavs ability to offer two first round picks prior to the deadline. Knicks know that with Kyrie and Luka  the Mavs are unlikely to end up in the top 10. Not enough games left to drop.

(02-07-2023, 04:26 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I just think the price is going to be higher than thought on this board.   PHX is 8-2 in their last 10 and now in third place in the west and their best player is returning.  During the last 10 games Ayton is averaging 22 and 13.    He will take multiple firsts and swaps imo.

I think unless they have another trade lined up, this offseason is a better chance he is moved.

(02-07-2023, 04:31 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: This. The idea that the Suns will be happy with one first and also take back bad salary is a nice fantasy. Would be less than the package for Kyrie. SD and DFS had positive value. And the Mavs added an unprotected first.

(02-07-2023, 04:30 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: The Nets actually wanted 2 first round picks when it started so I think the Mavs could have done worse. At least they didn't give in on that.

(02-07-2023, 04:31 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: This. The idea that the Suns will be happy with one first and also take back bad salary is a nice fantasy. Would be less than the package for Kyrie. SD and DFS had positive value. And the Mavs added an unprotected first.