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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 07:43 PM)mvossman Wrote: He is generally known as a stat stuffer who does not put a lot of effort on defense. He has had a negative DEPM every year of his career and he consistently has one of the worse defensive ratings on his team. He is not good, and its unlikely we would be able to get average defense (something he has never done before) from him. I don't but guys into good/bad defense, but defense does not have as big a spread as offense. I think bad, average, good, really good is enough granularity most times. He is in the bad category.
Yeah, this just hasn’t been my opinion when watching him. But to be fair, I’ve only seen him at most 10-15 times per year.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - SwisherPrice - 01-06-2023
Bye bye Kemba! I guess they can bring back Campazzo now
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Chicagojk - 01-06-2023
The ending of careers are usually sad endings.
I am all for Hardy getting spot minutes and living with the ups and downs. Although, not sure they have enough if Luka or Din misses time. Kemba was that insurance. Maybe his knees are really that bad, but this feels like a $ move. I have little sympathy for Cuban looking to save some money. Am I right it is a minimum plus Tax. If this is not due to his knees, I think I would keep Kemba. You could still waive him if you guaranteed his salary right?
I guess in the end it doesn't really matter too much.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 01-06-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Lol, I feel almost the exact opposite. His personality seems super off to me. But you are drawn to those oddball types, I've noticed.
Been curious if your thoughts on Dinwiddie have changed lately. I actually hated the trade last year because I thought Dinwiddie was kind of an empty stats guy who needed the ball and shot the ball poorly but haven't been pleasantly surprised since he got here to see that I was wrong about some of the assumptions I had.
It felt for a while that myself and @"mvossman" we're kind of his lone defenders early this season but I feel like he's continued to be our most consistent offensive player not named Luka. I know what I'm going to get out of him every night and I think the rest of the roster being so up and down makes that aspect about Dinwiddie stand out a little. Just curious if anything over the last month has moved the needle for the Dinwiddie detractors.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 11:36 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The ending of careers are usually sad endings.
I am all for Hardy getting spot minutes and living with the ups and downs. Although, not sure they have enough if Luka or Din misses time. Kemba was that insurance. Maybe his knees are really that bad, but this feels like a $ move. I have little sympathy for Cuban looking to save some money. Am I right it is a minimum plus Tax. If this is not due to his knees, I think I would keep Kemba. You could still waive him if you guaranteed his salary right?
I guess in the end it doesn't really matter too much.
The more I think about what they've tried so far...Campazzo, Wright, Walker....the more I think a guard, and probably one capable of playing at least some point guard, will be the trade target.
It seems like they want a Brunson replacement to me, at least short term.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 11:51 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Been curious if your thoughts on Dinwiddie have changed lately. I actually hated the trade last year because I thought Dinwiddie was kind of an empty stats guy who needed the ball and shot the ball poorly but haven't been pleasantly surprised since he got here to see that I was wrong about some of the assumptions I had.
It felt for a while that myself and @"mvossman" we're kind of his lone defenders early this season but I feel like he's continued to be our most consistent offensive player not named Luka. I know what I'm going to get out of him every night and I think the rest of the roster being so up and down makes that aspect about Dinwiddie stand out a little. Just curious if anything over the last month has moved the needle for the Dinwiddie detractors.
I think he's doing basically what he did well last season, minus the heavy dose of getting to the free throw line (which is kind of a big deal). I don't think he's playing worse on offense, but I do think that what he does fit like a glove in the 6th man role, and not so much starting and being guaranteed to end games. I would have him coming off the bench and probably not closing every night already, personally, but I'm starting to feel like getting there is going to require a splashy addition at guard.
The moral of the story is that the Brunson disaster has resulted in Dinwiddie getting Peter Principle'd. At least, that's my take.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 11:57 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: minus the heavy dose of getting to the free throw line (which is kind of a big deal)
This has certainly been an understated problem this season and it's weird because I feel like he's still making drives to the cup, especially when Luka is sitting.
I'm still confused as to why folks are upset with his role alongside the starters though. He's been our best catch and shoot option (honestly along with Green) all season and that fits alongside Luka perfectly on offense. His defense still drives me crazy but I continue to come back to bigger problems with our starting and closing groups than Dinwiddie but maybe I'm just not seeing something.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:01 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I'm still confused as to why folks are upset with his role alongside the starters though. He's been our best catch and shoot option (honestly along with Green) all season and that fits alongside Luka perfectly on offense. His defense still drives me crazy but I continue to come back to bigger problems with our starting and closing groups than Dinwiddie but maybe I'm just not seeing something.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, he's a ball stopper. Everything people say about Hardaway, I think it's worse with Dinwiddie. I totally agree that his shots are still going in, months into the season, and that part is AWESOME. He should absolutely be commended for that. But, he plays like Luka, and to my eye, not in a way that seems as planned. I think he's not super great at simply moving the ball when the situation calls for it and when he does, he doesn't do so with very effective purpose.
That's GREAT when you're out there with the bench unit being a 6th man. Perfect time to put your head down and just get downhill, which is by far the best feature of his game. But to my eye he hasn't figured out how to adjust the "rhythm" of how to get his game going next to Luka nearly as well (yet) as Brunson did by the second half of last season.
I also think he's the worst defender on the entire team, including Luka, and by a fairly significant margin. Idk...I go back and forth between him and Bullock on that, honestly.
I don't dislike him, I just liked him significantly more last season in that role he used to play.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Chicagojk - 01-06-2023
Saw a post on another team site on potential 10 day candidates. I think I would be looking for someone with size. Any of these interest you?
Justin Champagnie- released by Toronto recently
PJ dozier- Probably not a candidate as he is a guard
Paul Millsap
Xavier Sneed
Kent Bazemore
DeAndre Bembry
David Nawaba
Joel Ayayi
Jeremy Lamb
Wes Iwundu---hey I know him
Denzel Valentine
Moe Harkless
DeMarcus Cousins
Noah Vonleh- I believe he was waived by San Antonio
Carmelo Anthony
Hassan Whiteside--Hmmm
Some younger guys---Luka Samanic and Jontay Porter
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Jym - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:01 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: This has certainly been an understated problem this season and it's weird because I feel like he's still making drives to the cup, especially when Luka is sitting.
I'm still confused as to why folks are upset with his role alongside the starters though. He's been our best catch and shoot option (honestly along with Green) all season and that fits alongside Luka perfectly on offense. His defense still drives me crazy but I continue to come back to bigger problems with our starting and closing groups than Dinwiddie but maybe I'm just not seeing something.
Yeah he's been one of the few brightspots
DFS, Bullock, and THJ have all been way worse. Still surprised at how sucky DFS has been
I wanted him as 6th man earlier on but that was before I learned how much our other starters were going to suck
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Kammrath - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Everything people say about Hardaway, I think it's worse with Dinwiddie.
I would choose THJ over SD if given a choice.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Mapka - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 01:12 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would choose THJ over SD if given a choice.
Next to Luka? I think so. Otherwise I would take an additional SD. Lol
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 01:25 PM)Mapka Wrote: Next to Luka? I think so. Otherwise I would take an additional SD. Lol
Well "next to Luka" is sort of the business the Mavs are locked into for the foreseeable future, yeah?
Personally, I like Hardaway next to Luka and hate him trying to create shots for himself with the second unit.
I'm cool with Dinwiddie trying to create shots for himself, more so when Luka sits, and while I don't think he's terrible next to Luka I don't think he's as good there as Hardaway.
I think all three of them together is bananas and it wouldn't even have occurred to me to try it as anything more than a surprise change of pace lineup.
For whatever reason Kidd came into this season treating Dinwiddie like a cornerstone player and while I like him, I just don't view him as someone you have to worry about upsetting. I feel the same way about Hardaway, but it's so obvious that he's a much better version of himself starting and playing next to Luka. They've tried bringing him off the bench three times now in like four years and it has been a disaster every time. If you can upgrade him, do it, but if he's here, start him. Dinwiddie, on the other hand, was amazing last year off of the bench, imho.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - ItsGoTime - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 01:12 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would choose THJ over SD if given a choice.Package them both and get the best player in the deal and a lesser player (or 2, hopefully young) that fills the holes.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 01:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Package them both and get the best player in the deal and a lesser player that fills the holes.
Well, if Green is as ready for huge minutes as we think, you might be able to fill both holes with ONE high paid player *coughRussellcough*.
Someone who can play off ball like Hardaway and create like Dinwiddie, who is at least in the ballpark, defensively (probably better than Dinwiddie, I bet). Then, throw Green some extra minutes behind them at the 2 and supplement with Hardy.
I'd be all over that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - SleepingHero - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:11 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Saw a post on another team site on potential 10 day candidates. I think I would be looking for someone with size. Any of these interest you?
Justin Champagnie- released by Toronto recently
PJ dozier- Probably not a candidate as he is a guard
Paul Millsap
Xavier Sneed
Kent Bazemore
DeAndre Bembry
David Nawaba
Joel Ayayi
Jeremy Lamb
Wes Iwundu---hey I know him
Denzel Valentine
Moe Harkless
DeMarcus Cousins
Noah Vonleh- I believe he was waived by San Antonio
Carmelo Anthony
Hassan Whiteside--Hmmm
Some younger guys---Luka Samanic and Jontay Porter
Bembry- was an average wing but could rebound and defend. He's a good hustle guy should they want wing depth.
Lamb- can actually score off the bench and even distribute some. His defense is terrible. Not a bad look though if they just want more reliable bench scoring.
Cousins- Please get McGee off this team and replace him with Cousins.
Anthony- Again vet scoring. He can't defend, but is he much worse than Bertans at this point? He can hit threes pretty good too.
All in all none of those names are ones I'm chomping at the bit for. I can make a case for almost all of them to get a run on the bench given how sorry our rotation is.
(01-06-2023, 01:12 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would choose THJ over SD if given a choice.
It's funny because I'd choose Dinwiddie every single time if I had the choice.
Dinwiddie can handle the ball, distribute, AND score. Hardaway is a streaky catch and shoot 3pt guy.
We need dynamic players. THJ is not that.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - ItsGoTime - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 01:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Well, if Green is as ready for huge minutes as we think, you might be able to fill both holes with ONE high paid player *coughRussellcough*.I'm luke warm on Russell, he is a step in the right direction as far as a younger team. If we could get either Naz Reid or Jaden McDaniels by only adding second(s) to the deal, I would be very happy with that trade. I'd give a first if we could add both.
Someone who can play off ball like Hardaway and create like Dinwiddie, who is at least in the ballpark, defensively (probably better than Dinwiddie, I bet). Then, throw Green some extra minutes behind them at the 2 and supplement with Hardy.
I'd be all over that.
Came up with this salary acceptable trade:
Russell/Reid/McDaniels/Anderson for SD/THJ/McGee/28 first/27 second/29 second
With the waive on KW, we have a roster spot open so that is not a factor in this trade. We get Russell (hopefully the best player in the trade), a couple young players and take on 2 years of Anderson. They mix it up to see if something else works before making a decision on the KAT/Gobert pairing in the offseason.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, he's a ball stopper. Everything people say about Hardaway, I think it's worse with Dinwiddie. I totally agree that his shots are still going in, months into the season, and that part is AWESOME. He should absolutely be commended for that. But, he plays like Luka, and to my eye, not in a way that seems as planned. I think he's not super great at simply moving the ball when the situation calls for it and when he does, he doesn't do so with very effective purpose.
That's GREAT when you're out there with the bench unit being a 6th man. Perfect time to put your head down and just get downhill, which is by far the best feature of his game. But to my eye he hasn't figured out how to adjust the "rhythm" of how to get his game going next to Luka nearly as well (yet) as Brunson did by the second half of last season.
I also think he's the worst defender on the entire team, including Luka, and by a fairly significant margin. Idk...I go back and forth between him and Bullock on that, honestly.
I don't dislike him, I just liked him significantly more last season in that role he used to play.
Agree with a lot of this. I will say that both last year and this year, Dinwiddie was on the court every minute that Luka was not, so the overlap with Luka should be roughly the save assuming the minutes are the same. Given that he is easily one of our top 3 offensive players, one of only two playmakers and 3 creators, its hard to argue reducing his minutes. That means he is getting roughly the same minutes with Luka regardless of whether he is starting or coming off the bench.
I get the argument that he pounds the ball a little too much, but I kind of felt the same way regarding Brunson, and he is a more willing catch and shoot player than Brunson was.
All that being said, I have a similar viewpoint regarding Luka/Wood/Din as I did Luka/Brunson/Din. We should have two of those guys on the court at all times, but I'm not a fan of all three unless its finishing games, so I would be on board with Dinwiddie coming off the bench when Dorian and Green are healthy.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Ghost of Podkolzin - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:11 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Saw a post on another team site on potential 10 day candidates. I think I would be looking for someone with size. Any of these interest you?
Justin Champagnie- released by Toronto recently
PJ dozier- Probably not a candidate as he is a guard
Paul Millsap
Xavier Sneed
Kent Bazemore
DeAndre Bembry
David Nawaba
Joel Ayayi
Jeremy Lamb
Wes Iwundu---hey I know him
Denzel Valentine
Moe Harkless
DeMarcus Cousins
Noah Vonleh- I believe he was waived by San Antonio
Carmelo Anthony
Hassan Whiteside--Hmmm
Some younger guys---Luka Samanic and Jontay Porter
Justin Champagnie - I like him. Defensive and rebounding stud. A bit undersized, slight. Best description is Power Guard. He really reminds me of DFS. IMO he was cut because of TOR's glut at wing. Worth a look.
Kent Bazemore - end of the bench defensive specialist, better than some of the fodder we've had.
DeMarcus Cousins or Hassan Whiteside - how is McGee on this roster instead of either of these guys?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - dirkfansince1998 - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:11 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Saw a post on another team site on potential 10 day candidates. I think I would be looking for someone with size. Any of these interest you?
Justin Champagnie- released by Toronto recently
PJ dozier- Probably not a candidate as he is a guard
Paul Millsap
Xavier Sneed
Kent Bazemore
DeAndre Bembry
David Nawaba
Joel Ayayi
Jeremy Lamb
Wes Iwundu---hey I know him
Denzel Valentine
Moe Harkless
DeMarcus Cousins
Noah Vonleh- I believe he was waived by San Antonio
Carmelo Anthony
Hassan Whiteside--Hmmm
Some younger guys---Luka Samanic and Jontay Porter
Question is if the Mavs still want to have a 3rd ballhandler or if the recent injuries changed the prioritites. Looking for a big wing or center instead. Knowing the Mavs they will most likely bring in another vet. 30+ and on his last leg.
Personally I would go for the highest upside player that can play DFS´s or Maxi´s role. Big wing or a center that can defend the perimeter. Don´t think any of their summer league/camp bodies fits into that role. Omoruyi would have been a good option but for some reason the Mavs gave up on him.
Just looking at measurements and athleticism Sekou Doumbouya is the perfect small ball big. Would probably be my pick.
Not like any of them can be any worse than McGee.