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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - F Gump - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 01:50 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would lose my mind spending 3 1sts on LaVine. Please don't, IIC, please don't.
I'd love to replace THJ with a much better shooter. But Lavine? The price and risk turns me off too.
I'd want a player with a more reasonable contract, that isn't as much of an injury risk and who plays a bit of defense. Unfortunately I don't know who that would be. But no way I'd want to put all my chips on Lavine.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Ghost of Podkolzin - 01-05-2023
Lavine = Stackhouse
Unless you can get him for a $ savings to Chi, no thank you.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 02:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: I'd love to replace THJ with a much better shooter. But Lavine? The price and risk turns me off too.
I'd want a player with a more reasonable contract, that isn't as much of an injury risk and who plays a bit of defense. Unfortunately I don't know who that would be. But no way I'd want to put all my chips on Lavine.
I guess there is some overlap in THJ‘s role and what LaVine would do here, so I get that comparison. I think it’s probably true that he would have to replace THJ in the lineup, for example, but I think he would play a role that they currently don’t have anyone playing, let alone Hardaway.
If we want to think more literally about a direct upgrade for Hardaway, a guy I can see being available is Deangelo Russel. I think he is a pretty good blend of THJ and Brunson on the offensive end. My suspicion is that he is not going to check the “bit of defense” box for you, but I really think he would fit in nicely here next to Luka as a shooter and secondary creator. I think about him pretty often, because while I don’t believe it would be a popular idea around here, I can actually envision him being a fairly good fit who helps the offense tremendously.
With either of those players, however, I personally would want to see Dinwiddie go to the bench. Then again, I’d prefer that NOW.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Ghost of Podkolzin - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 02:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I guess there is some overlap in THJ‘s role and what LaVine would do here, so I get that comparison. I think it’s probably true that he would have to replace THJ in the lineup, for example, but I think he would play a role that they currently don’t have anyone playing, let alone Hardaway.
If we want to think more literally about a direct upgrade for Hardaway, a guy I can see being available is Deangelo Russel. I think he is a pretty good blend of THJ and Brunson on the offensive end. My suspicion is that he is not going to check the “bit of defense” box for you, but I really think he would fit in nicely here next to Luka as a shooter and secondary creator. I think about him pretty often, because while I don’t believe it would be a popular idea around here, I can actually envision him being a fairly good fit who helps the offense tremendously.
With either of those players, however, I personally would want to see Dinwiddie go to the bench. Then again, I’d prefer that NOW.
I thought of that after reading about the Min implosion. With Din and Kemba, does he really have a role?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 02:38 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Lavine = Stackhouse
Unless you can get him for a $ savings to Chi, no thank you.
Stackhouse was a great addition to the team. Amazing. He completely changed the culture and made the team much less soft. I think they held onto him a little bit too long, maybe, but I look back at that acquisition with fondness.
Having said that, I don’t really get the comparison. The main thing about Stackhouse was how tough he was, and I never really thought of him as being super athletic the way LaVine is.
I haven’t thought about it very much, but off the top of my head I honestly don’t think the Mavericks have ever had a player like LaVine. Gerald green is the closest thing I can think of, but he wasn’t good enough to play. LaVine is an all-star and a threat to score from anywhere on the court.
(01-05-2023, 02:45 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I thought of that after reading about the Min implosion. With Din and Kemba, does he really have a role?
I might be wrong about this, but I don’t think Kemba actually has a role in the way you mean. He’s obviously still a good player, but I think the days of him being healthy enough for them to depend on him are over. If you want to compare him to someone from last year, I would imagine him in Trey Burke’s role. They will need him to play and play well here and there, but I would not pencil him into the playoff rotation or anything like that. Again, I might be wrong.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - cow - 01-05-2023
Kemba should have a role on just about every in bounds play due to his speed.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Ghost of Podkolzin - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 02:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Stackhouse was a great addition to the team. Amazing. He completely changed the culture and made the team much less soft. I think they held onto him a little bit too long, maybe, but I look back at that acquisition with fondness.
Having said that, I don’t really get the comparison. The main thing about Stackhouse was how tough he was, and I never really thought of him as being super athletic the way LaVine is.
I haven’t thought about it very much, but off the top of my head I honestly don’t think the Mavericks have ever had a player like LaVine. Gerald green is the closest thing I can think of, but he wasn’t good enough to play. LaVine is an all-star and a threat to score from anywhere on the court.
I'm talking about their game, not their personalities, lol. Stackhouse came into the Mavs as a high volume chucker who only filled the "Pts" column. That's precisely what I think of Lavine.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - HoosierDaddyKid - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 03:57 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I'm talking about their game, not their personalities, lol. Stackhouse came into the Mavs as a high volume chucker who only filled the "Pts" column. That's precisely what I think of Lavine.
Agreed. Lavine has the makeup and size to be a good defender, but he looks lost out there on defense. Besides, how much more different is he over THJ outside of being more athletic?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - cow - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 05:21 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Agreed. Lavine has the makeup and size to be a good defender, but he looks lost out there on defense. Besides, how much more different is he over THJ outside of being more athletic?
I'd assume he's much better than THJ off the bounce in creating open looks for himself or getting to the cup.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 05:26 PM)cow Wrote: I'd assume he's much better than THJ off the bounce in creating open looks for himself or getting to the cup.
No assumption necessary. This is factual. He is a GREAT scorer. He's closer to Paul George than he is to THJ, and I am no THJ hater.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - cow - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 05:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: ...and I am no THJ hater.
We all flaws, bro.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 05:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: No assumption necessary. This is factual. He is a GREAT scorer. He's closer to Paul George than he is to THJ, and I am no THJ hater.
offensively maybe, but he is miles away defensively. I don't mind spending a crappy first and dumping some contracts to see if we can teach Wood how to play defense. I have no interest in paying what it would take to get Lavine only to find out he can't be to taught.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:13 PM)mvossman Wrote: offensively maybe, but he is miles away defensively.
LaVine compared to Paul George? Yes, that's true, but I've noticed that defense gets measured here in a needlessly binary way. I don't think LaVine is total non-defender as he's being described.
You aren't getting someone who plays offense and defense both on a Paul George level.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
What I learned last season from the Dinwiddie acquisition is that sometimes, these guys you think have flaws from afar are much better here, especially since playing next to Luka both lessens their role and makes the game easier for them.
I think Dinwiddie has been slightly "Peter Principled" this season, so far, but he was a dream in the role he had last season, and before the trade he was one of my least favorite players available. I was flat out wrong about how he'd look here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - cow - 01-05-2023
Dinwiddie the person is cool but I can't wait until he is in another uniform.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:42 PM)cow Wrote: Dinwiddie the person is cool but I can't wait until he is in another uniform.
Lol, I feel almost the exact opposite. His personality seems super off to me. But you are drawn to those oddball types, I've noticed.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: LaVine compared to Paul George? Yes, that's true, but I've noticed that defense gets measured here in a needlessly binary way. I don't think LaVine is total non-defender as he's being described.
You aren't getting someone who plays offense and defense both on a Paul George level.
I'm not sure what that means. Lavine has never shown any interest to play defense no matter what the situation. We really need plus defenders next to Luka and I don't see that ever being the case with Lavine. I realize we probably are not going to land a Paul George level player, but I don't want to spend all of my assets on half of Paul George, especially when there are locker room concerns and knee concerns.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:49 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not sure what that means.
"Needlessly binary" you mean?
According to my understanding of people's daily analysis here, there are two types of defenders: All NBA defensive studs and people who completely suck at defense. That's probably a little on the marginalizing side, and I don't mean to call out anyone specific, but at least once a day I read about how "_____ doesn't play any defense" and I almost never agree.
I don't agree with those making variations of that comment about LaVine today, for example, but it's not so much about LaVine, it's about the binary nature of the comment. Tomorrow, someone else's defense won't be good enough. The next day, it will be someone else.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:49 PM)mvossman Wrote: Lavine has never shown any interest to play defense no matter what the situation.
Hyperbole, imo. Pretty overt hyperbole at that.
(01-05-2023, 06:49 PM)mvossman Wrote: knee concerns.
Valid, and probably the one and only thing that would give me pause.
However, and it's only my opinion of course, but a healthy LaVine, if that's a possibility, is a tremendous talent that could significantly help this team. More so than any other name we've discussed, I think. But yeah, if he's damaged, I'm out. We have no way of knowing, so hopefully the Mavs have a good idea of what's going on there. I'd rather pay full price for a healthy LaVine than a discounted price for a damaged one, if that makes sense.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 06:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: "Needlessly binary" you mean?
According to my understanding of people's daily analysis here, there are two types of defenders: All NBA defensive studs and people who completely suck at defense. That's probably a little on the marginalizing side, and I don't mean to call out anyone specific, but at least once a day I read about how "_____ doesn't play any defense" and I almost never agree.
I don't agree with those making variations of that comment about LaVine today, for example, but it's not so much about LaVine, it's about the binary nature of the comment. Tomorrow, someone else's defense won't be good enough. The next day, it will be someone else.
He is generally known as a stat stuffer who does not put a lot of effort on defense. He has had a negative DEPM every year of his career and he consistently has one of the worse defensive ratings on his team. He is not good, and its unlikely we would be able to get average defense (something he has never done before) from him. I don't but guys into good/bad defense, but defense does not have as big a spread as offense. I think bad, average, good, really good is enough granularity most times. He is in the bad category.