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+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Jakeospikez - 01-04-2023
I'd say FVV should not be on the radar at all unless he was a throw in for one of their wings. Getting FVV is an immediate indictment on the FO cause Brunson is just flat out better and he was already here. FVV has never been good at 2s while JB is a legit 3 level scorer with elite efficiency. I don't think the Mavs want anymore 3 point specialists. FVV has a really huge contract that he hasn't lived up to. He was decent as the 4th option on a team with Kawhi, Siakam, and a younger Lowry, but since they moved on from Lowry due to age, instead of picking up the slack he has regressed and is probably a major reason why the Raptors are the way they are right now. My opinion but I'd look elsewhere for reclamation projects.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 01-04-2023
I could see them moving OG if they don’t think he’s going to re-sign. Well run organizations don’t let homegrown talent walk for nothing.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - HoosierDaddyKid - 01-04-2023
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/01/mavericks-may-offer-two-year-extension-to-christian-wood.html
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - F Gump - 01-04-2023
(01-04-2023, 04:20 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/01/mavericks-may-offer-two-year-extension-to-christian-wood.html
As DanS pointed out recently, this is a summary (as was Real GM's recently) of an ESPN Windy note, which was a rehash of what TimM said a week or so ago.
It's a good rehash, to be sure. But the numbers are probably Windy building a hypothetical on what TM briefly gave us in the first place and inserting what the details might look like. And HR (who is good on the numbers) fills in some more as well.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-04-2023
(01-04-2023, 03:24 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: I'd say FVV should not be on the radar at all unless he was a throw in for one of their wings. Getting FVV is an immediate indictment on the FO cause Brunson is just flat out better and he was already here. FVV has never been good at 2s while JB is a legit 3 level scorer with elite efficiency. I don't think the Mavs want anymore 3 point specialists. FVV has a really huge contract that he hasn't lived up to. He was decent as the 4th option on a team with Kawhi, Siakam, and a younger Lowry, but since they moved on from Lowry due to age, instead of picking up the slack he has regressed and is probably a major reason why the Raptors are the way they are right now. My opinion but I'd look elsewhere for reclamation projects.
I don't think its this simple. JB is a better shot creator, but I think Fred is a better fit with Luka due to being a much better defender and better off ball (much more willing to pull the trigger on 3s). I also don't see the drop off you are talking about unless you are referring to this season when his 3 is a little off. The last two seasons are the best seasons of his career. I would have been totally fine trading Brunson for Fred (I know that was not an option) with my only concern the difference in ages.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - burekemde - 01-04-2023
(01-03-2023, 11:17 AM)mvossman Wrote: I would argue that Luka, Siakam and Wood are more than enough offense and you would play Dorian at the 3 and use Dinwiddie as 6th man.
Your offense is only as good as your weakest link. Any great playoff defense will make Dorian the space and let him beat them. We need more offensive players that can do so much with that space Luka leaves. The road to the title is through elimination of the double teams on Luka, and the way to go is bringing in multidimensional offensive players.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - RoyTarpleysGhost - 01-04-2023
Yes to Siakam if we have the assets to obtain him. I don’t think we do.
Yes to FVV depending on the price. I think he’d be a huge help. Secondary creator and at least has the reputation of a decent defender. Not sure of the salary implications: what salaries will be outgoing? Can Cuban afford it?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-04-2023
(01-04-2023, 05:45 PM)burekemde Wrote: Your offense is only as good as your weakest link. Any great playoff defense will make Dorian the space and let him beat them. We need more offensive players that can do so much with that space Luka leaves. The road to the title is through elimination of the double teams on Luka, and the way to go is bringing in multidimensional offensive players.
I think that applies more to defense when teams isolate a bad defender. Dorian generally hits corner 3s at well over 40%. That provides plenty of space for the other guys to do their thing and an outlet when necessary. I have pointed this out before, but look at Luka's net rating in the playoffs. It gets better the more 3&D guys (Dorian, Bullock, Maxi) are on the court with him. That is because they provide the space he needs to operate and the defense is crucial in a playoff situation. I'm not saying we don't need offensive alternatives when Luka gets doubled, but it does not need to be the entire lineup. Hell, a Luka/Wood combination surrounded by quality 3&D could go a long way.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 01-04-2023
I know you guys wouldn't like this.
Bullock+Joel for Holmes+Davis
For the Mavs:
McGee is a dead card, better have someone else take his spot.
Holmes is an expensive reclamation project at this point, but I have more faith him bouncing back than expecting McGee to be good for a 10-minute stretch.
DP in the play-offs is a non factor, in some ways Holmes is DP-like and could be taken out too, but at this point, still an option rather than a DP known non-option.
Wood, DP and Maxi are at a disadvantage against stronger bigs, Holmes can give the Mavs a bit of help with that.
RB -- well, what's to say about him? Hoping he turns it around isn't a sound strategy.
Davis is a better ball handler than RB that's for sure, even better than THJ at that regard, and the Mavs still lack ball handlers.
For the Kings:
This is just a cost cutting move. Paying 5m a year against paying 11m a year for 9 minutes a game.
Not sure what the plan is for Davis, but with Huerter and Monk, there's not much of a need to an SG.
RB - can turn the swich on and beat the Mavs if ever both teams make the play-offs!
On another note:
Another low-minute guy from the Kings that I like is Lyles, with Maxi being injured, another stretch big is needed. But I doubt the Kings have any need to move him.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Jakeospikez - 01-04-2023
(01-04-2023, 05:39 PM)mvossman Wrote: I don't think its this simple. JB is a better shot creator, but I think Fred is a better fit with Luka due to being a much better defender and better off ball (much more willing to pull the trigger on 3s). I also don't see the drop off you are talking about unless you are referring to this season when his 3 is a little off. The last two seasons are the best seasons of his career. I would have been totally fine trading Brunson for Fred (I know that was not an option) with my only concern the difference in ages.
To me it's as simple as the guy is an undersized guard that has never shot higher than 44.1% from 2 in his entire career. Just being a high volume 3 point shooter isn't enough for me from an undersized guard. Need to be able to drive and score consistently over bigs in the NBA. Brunson has the craftiness and touch to be a giant killer. FVV isn't gonna be doing that at all with that 2pt%. He'll always have defensive issues being undersized. That's something that should be avoided on a team with a primary ballhandler named Luka. Too much money for too many flaws for my taste. Can take him if he's a throw in but shouldn't go out of your way for him. Raptors will probably look to offload him and the Mavs shouldn't get baited by a Masai deal.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - mvossman - 01-04-2023
(01-04-2023, 07:52 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: To me it's as simple as the guy is an undersized guard that has never shot higher than 44.1% from 2 in his entire career. Just being a high volume 3 point shooter isn't enough for me from an undersized guard. Need to be able to drive and score consistently over bigs in the NBA. Brunson has the craftiness and touch to be a giant killer. FVV isn't gonna be doing that at all with that 2pt%. He'll always have defensive issues being undersized. That's something that should be avoided on a team with a primary ballhandler named Luka. Too much money for too many flaws for my taste. Can take him if he's a throw in but shouldn't go out of your way for him. Raptors will probably look to offload him and the Mavs shouldn't get baited by a Masai deal.
I think you are making huge assumptions regarding his defense based on his size. Generally being undersized is a huge hit to defense, but he makes up for it with strength and anticipation. In the industry he is considered an excellent perimeter defender and the advanced stats bear it out.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Branduil - 01-04-2023
I'd make this trade, but Cuban definitely wouldn't so it's a moot point
![[Image: 3f181Xq.png]](https://i.imgur.com/3f181Xq.png)
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - bearforce1 - 01-05-2023
(01-04-2023, 10:47 PM)Branduil Wrote: I'd make this trade, but Cuban definitely wouldn't so it's a moot point
This makes zero sense for Toronto. Siakam is a 2x all-NBA player and the going rate for one of those is 3 picks, 2 swaps at a minimum...
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Mikelorenzo - 01-05-2023
Definitely Cuban if he makes that change... Toronto hangs up and blocks the Mavs, for feeling disrespected... that package may not even return FVV to you
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Jakeospikez - 01-05-2023
(01-04-2023, 10:25 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think you are making huge assumptions regarding his defense based on his size. Generally being undersized is a huge hit to defense, but he makes up for it with strength and anticipation. In the industry he is considered an excellent perimeter defender and the advanced stats bear it out.
Yeah he's got a strong base similar to Lowry so he can hold up in the post I know, but you said it in your earlier post, he guards 1-3. That's completely size related. If we didn't have FVV but instead Josh Green was the smallest guy on the team, he guards 1-4 and that changes the defensive scheme and what the team has to cover for etc. Also I'd be weary of FVV advanced defensive metrics, you'd really have to do some deep dive into them because he's been playing next to the Toronto Longboys his entire career. I don't think you're gonna get some kinda great deal from the Raptors for FVV. Better off spending assets on a 2 way wing. I'd personally be pretty annoyed if they let JB go and ended up with FVV a year later.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - HAguiar95 - 01-05-2023
I was thinking about Lavine. Michael Scotto (Hoopshype) has us, Lakers, Heat and Kniks keeping an eye on him. In terms of best possible trades, I have:
1) Knicks have the best offer, having young players Reddish, Quickley, Grimes, Toppin + Fournier/Rose + a bunch of mediocre picks (I count at least 8 available 1sts to throw, some are really protected).
2) Our offer to top that would have to be something around Dinwiddie/Bullock/Powell + 3 lightly protected picks/swaps ('25, '27 and '29) for Lavine/Drummond/Dragic
3) Lakers also would have to be Westbrook + lightly protected picks available ('27 and '29).
4) Heat's proposal is probably Lowry/Robinson/Jovic + filler (Dedmon/Oladipo) + their available picks/swaps for trade ('23, '27 and '29).
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - omahen - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 10:48 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: Michael Scotto (Hoopshype) has us, Lakers, Heat and Kniks keeping an eye on him.
Knicks are definitely frontrunners here, if they decide they want him. Since LaVine is signed so long term, I don't think he can have much to say where he wants to be. On the side note - why is there not a team like Memphis on the list, who could really use a star player?
(01-05-2023, 10:48 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: Heat's proposal is probably Lowry/Robinson/Jovic + filler (Dedmon/Oladipo) + their available picks/swaps for trade ('23, '27 and '29).
This example really shows the difference between a good and bad FO. Mavs made one big trade since 2019 and all they can offer 4 years later is 2 FRP.
Miami (sign and) traded for Butler in 2019 and then for Lowry (considered one of the prime FA in 2021) and they still have 3 picks to put on the table. They constantly develop role players out of low picks and undrafted guys.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Kammrath - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 10:48 AM)HAguiar95 Wrote: Our offer to top that would have to be something around Dinwiddie/Bullock/Powell + 3 lightly protected picks/swaps ('25, '27 and '29) for Lavine/Drummond/Dragic
I would lose my mind spending 3 1sts on LaVine. Please don't, IIC, please don't.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 01:50 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I would lose my mind spending 3 1sts on LaVine. Please don't, IIC, please don't.
I guess I’m an IWNIC then, because if you tell me his knees are ok I plunge headfirst into that deal.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Kammrath - 01-05-2023
(01-05-2023, 02:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: IWNIC
?
