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RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - chaparral - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 06:41 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: So, you didn’t say to keep them as high level contributors, that’s my bad for reading too much into what you said. After the clarification, I think DFS at that point should be fine in a legacy type role, it all depends on how much we are leaning on him at that point (and what we are paying him).
Honestly, I think by the end of Maxi’s contract we will be seeing the reason I was so against the extension. He already looks to be out for the rest of the season and playoffs (most importantly). That doesn’t bode well. As injuries stack up (which he seems to have a lot of) he’ll slow down.
We’re talking about the shift in speed and athleticism paired with skill in the NBA. I’m not sure after 4 more years that what Maxi especially and maybe even DFS will be able to help as the NBA goes further down that route. Wood should be right on the edge of high level play at 31 unless he takes some of what LeBron has been using. At that point it’s also a matter of how much he is paid and how much we are leaning on him.
I don’t fully know the right thing to do with our aging team, mostly because I don’t think they have much value around the league. I replied to your comment, because I thought it was weird to think we should be relying heavily on DFS and Maxi especially, but Wood as well, in 4 years enough to name them in a post about the future.
I'd would take it a little bit further and say if Powell, DFS, THJ and Maxi are still on the Mavs in 4 years - we will have not won a title.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - DanSchwartzgan - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 05:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What is it that you're looking for and not seeing? No snark, I'm really curious.
I think he's improving at rotating quickly, identifying what the opposing actions are trying to achieve ahead of time (these are the important things, from my POV) and tbh, his ability to stand his ground in the paint and defend the rim is already better than what I expected when I started this crusade.
I think he falls short of Powell and Kleber significantly in the area of "well, I know Luka's not going to shut off the base line, so I need to be prepared to cover for him" but that, to me, is something regarding Luka, specifically (when he's the second biggest on the floor) and will improve with time they spend together. Not really what I'd call a deficiency in the principles of general help D.
I just don't trust his defense yet. Jet Terry did a nice job in the other thread of outlining Wood's history. A couple of good weeks when he's up for an extension doesn't quite erase what I know of Wood over several seasons. The fact much of the success came against the 22nd best offense (Minn x 2), the 29th best offense (Houston x 2) and then didn't come against the 27th best O (who has a good center...SA) doesn't quite get me there. Cleveland (11th O), NY (9th) and LA (17th) have VERY limited centers, so those wins haven't lit my fire either.
That's why I'm couching much of what I'm writing as 'if' they decide to keep him and build around him and Luka or 'if' they decide to move him. I just don't know what the plan is and while I'm more encouraged than I was, NBA history is full of personnel mistakes based on short bursts in the NCAA tournament or contract year effort that doesn't repeat itself. Even if it proves to be a fairly stable level of defensive play, he needs help and needs others around him who compliment him.
Someone can remind me of the exact stat, but I believe we have the best record in the league against either playoff teams or .500+ teams or whatever it is. Wood was a more minor player in wins against Memphis, Brooklyn (twice), Utah, Toronto, Portland (the first time), LAC, Denver (twice), Phoenix. He was inactive for the 21 point blowout of NY the first time and didn't play over 27 minutes in any the wins above. That changed on 12/16 with a great game in the win against Portland. Since then he's played much more and played well defensively in most of those games. I'd just like to see it against a few good teams who have all of their best players on the court a few times before declaring Wood an above average defender.
This isn't a relative to _______ thing. This is a 'who do you want to hitch your wagon to for the next few years' thing. And before someone puts out the usual noise about "yeah, but they paid Hardaway". I wasn't for that either. I put out a 100 versions of that summer that didn't include keeping him. Not that I hate him. I just thought there were better ways to spend the money that summer.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 08:20 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I'd just like to see it against a few good teams who have all of their best players on the court a few times before declaring Wood an above average defender.
That's more than fair.
I think there will be bumps in the road ahead with this - I don't think he's "there" for the record. I just think he's shown enough already to justify the next round of tests, that's all.
I think the wariness as it relates to a 4 year marriage is probably valid. I just want him to get every possible opportunity to play the role I'd want him to play before they decide anything. And yeah, I'm curious how well it will go against good teams, too.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - F Gump - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 05:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: It is why I LOVED the Wood trade from the get go. It was a great price and gamble on a player that had a ton of talent and was just entering his prime and for whatever reasons was not being highly desired by other teams.
The Mavs need to keep looking for those kind of deals. And the most important part: the players need to be 27 years old or YOUNGER.
Yes, the Wood trade made perfect sense. Most of us saw it as good value, no matter the long-term outcome.
Wood did come with big question marks, which were his apathetic defense, a reputation for a lack of maturity/professionalism, and whether he could fit into a team focused on winning rather than individual stats. The next contract was also a question. But the price was low (a scrub FRP), it had other benefits (clearing out bad contracts all at once), and he had shown good potential to be productive, so why not add him as a rental and see if he can help now and perhaps become even more than a rental.
And I think we all would love to do something like this again, if Mavs can only find a player and a deal.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Branduil - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 08:20 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I just don't trust his defense yet. Jet Terry did a nice job in the other thread of outlining Wood's history. A couple of good weeks when he's up for an extension doesn't quite erase what I know of Wood over several seasons. The fact much of the success came against the 22nd best offense (Minn x 2), the 29th best offense (Houston x 2) and then didn't come against the 27th best O (who has a good center...SA) doesn't quite get me there. Cleveland (11th O), NY (9th) and LA (17th) have VERY limited centers, so those wins haven't lit my fire either.Big difference with THJ is there were cap space options if we didn't keep him. There's no Plan B if we lose Wood, we don't get cap space, it will be the second straight season the Mavs lose their 2nd-best player for no compensation. You can't recover from that.
That's why I'm couching much of what I'm writing as 'if' they decide to keep him and build around him and Luka or 'if' they decide to move him. I just don't know what the plan is and while I'm more encouraged than I was, NBA history is full of personnel mistakes based on short bursts in the NCAA tournament or contract year effort that doesn't repeat itself. Even if it proves to be a fairly stable level of defensive play, he needs help and needs others around him who compliment him.
Someone can remind me of the exact stat, but I believe we have the best record in the league against either playoff teams or .500+ teams or whatever it is. Wood was a more minor player in wins against Memphis, Brooklyn (twice), Utah, Toronto, Portland (the first time), LAC, Denver (twice), Phoenix. He was inactive for the 21 point blowout of NY the first time and didn't play over 27 minutes in any the wins above. That changed on 12/16 with a great game in the win against Portland. Since then he's played much more and played well defensively in most of those games. I'd just like to see it against a few good teams who have all of their best players on the court a few times before declaring Wood an above average defender.
This isn't a relative to _______ thing. This is a 'who do you want to hitch your wagon to for the next few years' thing. And before someone puts out the usual noise about "yeah, but they paid Hardaway". I wasn't for that either. I put out a 100 versions of that summer that didn't include keeping him. Not that I hate him. I just thought there were better ways to spend the money that summer.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - DanSchwartzgan - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 11:08 PM)Branduil Wrote: it will be the second straight season the Mavs lose their 2nd-best player for no compensation. You can't recover from that.
Maybe we could actually let the bad things in life actually happen before deciding they are destiny. That way we don't live them twice if they actually happen and don't live them at all if they don't.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - KillerLeft - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 11:14 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Maybe we could actually let the bad things in life actually happen before deciding they are destiny. That way we don't live them twice if they actually happen and don't live them at all if they don't.
idk, this was my mentality back when you were trying to tell us Brunson might be a goner. I took the "believe it when I see it" approach and I'm not sure it helped my mental health that much at all. I'm sad just typing this...still.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - DanSchwartzgan - 01-01-2023
(01-01-2023, 05:31 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: One thing that I think gets really glossed over still when we talk about trading picks is the Luka contract timeline.
Trading our 2027 pick this season means you HAVE to have heavy protections on that pick much like the second pick in the KP trade because Luka is not under contract by the time you have to send that pick off so making it unprotected would be crazy
Just wanted to clarify one thing. I think most know that if we get to the end of the first round and the NY pick conveys, we can trade 24, 26 and 28. Luka will sign his super-max deal at the end of the 2026 season. There are certainly advantages to waiting until this summer, but the thing you are worried about...trading picks beyond Luka's current contract...impinges upon how much draft capital can be given up this summer too. Maybe you throw caution to the wind and do a deal anyway for the right guy, but that 28 pick is a risky thing to trade for the reason you outline. Luka will take his money in July of 26, but there is no guarantee he hasn't pushed his way out by July of 28.
I often see someone reference trading our 2027 pick. I also wanted to point out that we can trade our first pick in the next allowable draft. It doesn't have to be specified as 2027 which becomes legal when the protections run out in 2025. If worded as the next allowable, we would very likely trade 2025 instead of 2027. Point being we can trade a pick now that is likely closer than 2027.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Branduil - 01-02-2023
(01-01-2023, 11:14 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Maybe we could actually let the bad things in life actually happen before deciding they are destiny. That way we don't live them twice if they actually happen and don't live them at all if they don't.Few people have lost money betting on Cuban's stupidity.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Jason Terry - 01-02-2023
Conley and Vanderbilt
for
Hardaway and Hardy
No picks
Would you do it? Makes some sense from both teams perspective
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Kammrath - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 08:18 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Conley and Vanderbilt
for
Hardaway and Hardy
No picks
Would you do it? Makes some sense from both teams perspective
Hell yes. Hardy has surprised me, but I am not enamored with him the way others are and I do not think he is going to be special.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - omahen - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 08:18 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Would you do it?
Of course. Conley is better than THJ and Vanderbilt is way better than Hardy. I don't think Utah would even consider such a deal.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - DanSchwartzgan - 01-02-2023
Since yesterday was kind of a 'keep Wood' love fest, lets go the other direction today. What team might possibly trade for him with the idea of keeping him. I don't expect this to be popular. In fact, it is probably a step back to take a step forward type move. But, it checks some boxes. It reduces our tax payment a bit. It moves Bertans in a deal where we take back an even bigger contract. It provides a Maxi replacement who is RFA after the season and gives us a very young center who certainly qualifies for the concept of getting them before they arrive. It also gives us a secondary ball handler off the bench who can take some pressure off of Luka and SD. Nothing here impacts long term salary unless the RFA is retained.
I've asked the question several times and no one has answered. If Wood is UFA this summer, who has the means and need to sign him. The only answer I come up with is Charlotte. They have cap room. Their 32 year old starting center is a free agent. The future at center there is really young (21). They possess the 30th ranked O in the league and could use someone who puts the ball in the hole. They want to move on from Hayward and don't appear to want to pay P.J. Washington. The best FA centers on the market are Wood and Naz, but there is no guarantee they go to Charlotte (or even make it to the summer as FA's).
So, the deal is:
Hayward/Washington/Kai Jones
for
Wood/Bertans/Bullock
I've got Jones backing up Powell at center until the day he can start. He is a high-variance kid at 21 with incredible speed which would add another player who can get out on the break. His mobility should also help defensively and he's shown some flashes of an outside shot. I've got PJ coming off the bench in Maxi's absence and potentially signing him (or S&T) this summer. And, I'd rather pay $30mm to Hayward for a year providing some secondary playmaking and scoring from the bench than $23mm to Bertans guaranteed over the next two seasons. Note that I have Maxi as third string in the depth chart below. That is for the rest of this season due to injury. That will sort itself out as Powell and Washington are both FA's this summer. I like the Hayward timeline as Hardy might be ready for the role I envision for him once Hayward's contract is up. He is the kind of veteran scorer who used to be a star that you often see on really good teams. Yeah, the money is tough, but the group below is $12mm under the LT before resolving Powell and Washington.
Powell/Jones McGee
DFS/Washington Maxi (for now)
THJ/Hayward Frank/Pinson
SD/Green Hardy
Luka/SD Walker
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Kammrath - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 12:14 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Hayward/Washington/Kai Jones
for
Wood/Bertans/Bullock
No way I do that deal unless I am 95+% certain Kai Jones is the real deal. Mavs are giving up the best player by a mile who is in their prime.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - DanSchwartzgan - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 12:25 PM)Kammrath Wrote: No way I do that deal unless I am 95+% certain Kai Jones is the real deal. Mavs are giving up the best player by a mile who is in their prime.
who is not tied to you in any way beyond the end of this season.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Kammrath - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 12:33 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: who is not tied to you in any way beyond the end of this season.
Not if I was running the team!
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - Scott41theMavs - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 08:18 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Conley and Vanderbilt
for
Hardaway and Hardy
No picks
Would you do it? Makes some sense from both teams perspective
No, because the Mavs have to throw in two future firsts by the time Ainge is done negotiating. Don't trade with Ainge!
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - HAguiar95 - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 12:14 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: So, the deal is:
Hayward/Washington/Kai Jones
for
Wood/Bertans/Bullock
Pretty good deal for the Mavs, but I can't see CHA biting this when they have the cap space to outright sign Wood or another guy in FA (Poeltl and Turner are also UFA if they're going after bigs).
Bertans/Bullock/Hardy for Hayward/Jones might be something they could entertain to save money.
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - DanSchwartzgan - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 01:23 PM)HAguiar95 Wrote: Pretty good deal for the Mavs, but I can't see CHA biting this when they have the cap space to outright sign Wood or another guy in FA (Poeltl and Turner are also UFA if they're going after bigs).
Bertans/Bullock/Hardy for Hayward/Jones might be something they could entertain to save money.
Now that is interesting. Wood/Jones as the center rotation for the next several years.
Basically it is Bertans/Reggie to get off of Hayward. Seems fair. Separately it is the former 19th pick (in a position where we have Powell as a FA this summer) for someone who should have been picked in the teens. I can see Jones contributing here sooner than Hardy and the upsides are probably similar. Charlotte has three picks in the second this summer. Can we get one of those too?
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely | DFS out at least 2 more weeks - HAguiar95 - 01-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 01:36 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Now that is interesting. Wood/Jones as the center rotation for the next several years.
Basically it is Bertans/Reggie to get off of Hayward. Seems fair. Separately it is the former 19th pick (in a position where we have Powell as a FA this summer) for someone who should have been picked in the teens. I can see Jones contributing here sooner than Hardy and the upsides are probably similar. Charlotte has three picks in the second this summer. Can we get one of those too?
I think we're already stretching in the Hayward part. CHA would want a positive value (or neutral), we're sending negative. They could wait till summer and give Hayward this season to get some value as an expiring.