+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal? (/showthread.php?tid=2173)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
RE: ROSTER TALK: - dirkfansince1998 - 12-19-2022
In my opinion the biggest no brainer to at least get another body for the front court is replacing one of the two-way guys with a big. Maybe Sekou Doumbouya or Trevion Williams.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - F Gump - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 06:53 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: In my opinion the biggest no brainer to at least get another body for the front court is replacing one of the two-way guys with a big. Maybe Sekou Doumbouya or Trevion Williams.
That makes sense (unless they have high future expectations for Wright and Dorsey), but I would guess that the Mavs see their PRIMARY path to solving any front-court shortage via a resuscitation of playability (McGee, Bertans) and restoration of health (Kleber, Powell, Luka), with much less interest in external solutions (via a trade or a signing).
RE: ROSTER TALK: - DanSchwartzgan - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 05:16 AM)F Gump Wrote: I'm thinking just the opposite - that CHA would have to add the pick to justify the financials - and I'm still not convinced that's enough for Cuban.
Agreed. I doubt Charlotte gives a first, but they have some seconds stored up. Teams don't let 24 year old former lottery picks just walk. They need to sell their fan base that something positive came out of the transaction. I also think Reggie plus some little something for Washington is something that might work.
If you look at the current version of Washington, he's not really good at anything. But, the two years prior, he was pretty good at a lot of things. He was +4 in On-Off for two years in a row, shot above league average .360 on threes for three years in a row and had a TS% as high as .588. His D-Win Score was as high as 2.4 (the best Mav this year is 1.4) and VORP as high as 0.9 (he'd be third on the Mav's behind SD at 1.0). His best EPM would also rank third on the Mav's behind Luka and SD.
He's not Grant or Gordon (as discussed in another thread), but if the price is right, he's another piece that adds to the staple of good-not-great complementary players. He fits Luka's timeline and would probably be helped immensely by moving from loser Charlotte to playing alongside Luka. If Wood ends up being the future at center (still pre-mature, but trending), I think he's the kind of guy, somewhat like Maxi, who unlocks him at the defensive end without getting in his way at the offensive end.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Mavs2021 - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 08:23 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Agreed. I doubt Charlotte gives a first, but they have some seconds stored up. Teams don't let 24 year old former lottery picks just walk.
What if he was a 2nd round pick.
![[Image: f4637125c5d429fdb200668636ea2440_w200.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/origin/f4/f4637125c5d429fdb200668636ea2440_w200.gif)
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 12-19-2022
Guys, they don't need "bigs"...they have four of them on the roster. FOUR.
They need forwards. They have DFS, Kleber and Bertans only who can even play the 4, and Kleber will spend a lot of his time at center in the playoffs (if Kidd is smart). Bertans is obviously not going to play at all once the rotation gets set and tightened.
We should be looking at 6'8"-6'9" guys who are fast and athletic. Anunoby would be great, as he can play with DFS and be his replacement down the road if DFS gets packaged for some reason. Siakim would be better, because he'd be the piece most squarely fitting into the 4 here in quite some time.
Anunoby
Siakim
Grant
Kuzma
Hachimura
Bey
No idea who's available and belongs on that list (not even sure any of those names are available) but THAT is the type that's completely missing here. Someone in between DFS and Kleber on the size/fluid motion spectrum.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Nowitzki Way - 12-19-2022
I haven't posted in awhile, but MavsForum is must read on a daily basis. You guys have the most knowledgeable insight and ideas on all things Mavs. Thank you for your daily contributions. Now on to business. This Mavs roster.
My reactions to this seasons so far:
Not extending or trading Brunson last year is proving to be embarrassing, and a disaster for a franchise with limited assets. Then the failure to acquire that 3rd ball handler has had a negative impact on the roster and rotations.
Getting Christian Wood was a great move, but we're using him wrong. He should be starting, and yes as the lone big.
Agree that if you start Wood, you need plus defenders surrounding him and Luka. DFS is one and the other should have been Bullock. Green has shown improvement but he still has his limitations. This is where we need to add. That guy who can guard the 1 to 4, and hit outside shots. But as we all know, those guys are hard to get.
I admit, i thought the McGee signing was a good at the time. After seeing how the Golden State series went, we needed another big in the rotation. This has been a failure and an ugly one at that.
We seem to have the same problem season after season. Ill fitting parts that no one else wants. We have 3 guys starting who should be coming off the bench (Dinwiddie, THJ, Powell). We have no picks, no prospects, and bad contracts (Bertans, THJ, McGee) that no one wants. I have a hard time finding an external option for this team to improve in the next few years. Then we have a owner who doesn't want to spend anymore, and an inexperienced GM from Nike.
Thank you guys again for spending so much time trying to figure out ways to improve our Mavs. i love the ideas, i just don't see a realistic trade that would make sense. We have the best player on the planet, a talented scorer (Wood), and a bunch of guys who would struggle to find minutes on the top teams in this league.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 11:36 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Guys, they don't need "bigs"...they have four of them on the roster. FOUR.
They need forwards. They have DFS, Kleber and Bertans only who can even play the 4, and Kleber will spend a lot of his time at center in the playoffs (if Kidd is smart). Bertans is obviously not going to play at all once the rotation gets set and tightened.
We should be looking at 6'8"-6'9" guys who are fast and athletic. Anunoby would be great, as he can play with DFS and be his replacement down the road if DFS gets packaged for some reason. Siakim would be better, because he'd be the piece most squarely fitting into the 4 here in quite some time.
Anunoby
Siakim
Grant
Kuzma
Hachimura
Bey
No idea who's available and belongs on that list (not even sure any of those names are available) but THAT is the type that's completely missing here. Someone in between DFS and Kleber on the size/fluid motion spectrum.
I think there might be two conversations going on here. I think in the short term we need a center because Maxi is out most of the rest of the season and McGee is completely useless.
There is another conversation about a long term significant piece which probably shouldn't be a center but rather somebody that can guard multiple positions. Personally I don't think that player needs to be a PF as I think Luka can also play minutes there and I feel like we are trying to move to more of a positionless roster anyways.
I think the first two guys on your list are difference makers that we would pay multiple firsts for. Grant is worth a first and would make sense if we are going the route of splitting the picks to get two quality starters. I'm not sure the other guys are worth burning a first on.
PJ is appealing because he potentially fits both spots. He shores up the front court with Maxi out, but can easily fit on the team when Maxi is back. However, he falls in the same category as the last three guys on your list. I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to burn a first on.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 01:15 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think there might be two conversations going on here. I think in the short term we need a center because Maxi is out most of the rest of the season and McGee is completely useless.
There is another conversation about a long term significant piece which probably shouldn't be a center but rather somebody that can guard multiple positions. Personally I don't think that player needs to be a PF as I think Luka can also play minutes there and I feel like we are trying to move to more of a positionless roster anyways.
I think the first two guys on your list are difference makers that we would pay multiple firsts for. Grant is worth a first and would make sense if we are going the route of splitting the picks to get two quality starters. I'm not sure the other guys are worth burning a first on.
PJ is appealing because he potentially fits both spots. He shores up the front court with Maxi out, but can easily fit on the team when Maxi is back. However, he falls in the same category as the last three guys on your list. I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to burn a first on.
You're right about the two conversations, but to me they're more overlapping than you think.
I think another big would be ok, if only to prevent even one more minute of McGee, sure...but only if McGee is outgoing. If not, he's got to be the 3rd, emergency center, imo. I will miss Kleber a ton, just like everyone else, but I am FINE with Powell/Wood getting 100% of the center minutes when things go according to plan.
In BOTH conversations, the team is missing that 6'9", athletic 4, and since Kleber isn't DEAD, that's the guy I'd be focused on acquiring, even in the current circumstances.
But that's me - I don't value "bigs"...like, at all. Wood is as big as I care to get.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 01:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: You're right about the two conversations, but to me they're more overlapping than you think.
I think another big would be ok, if only to prevent even one more minute of McGee, sure...but only if McGee is outgoing. If not, he's got to be the 3rd, emergency center, imo. I will miss Kleber a ton, just like everyone else, but I am FINE with Powell/Wood getting 100% of the center minutes when things go according to plan.
In BOTH conversations, the team is missing that 6'9", athletic 4, and since Kleber isn't DEAD, that's the guy I'd be focused on acquiring, even in the current circumstances.
But that's me - I don't value "bigs"...like, at all. Wood is as big as I care to get.
So wouldn't PJ be a perfect solution in this case? Somebody who could provide emergency center minutes this season, while generally playing the big 4 this season and beyond?
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 01:15 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think the first two guys on your list are difference makers that we would pay multiple firsts for. Grant is worth a first and would make sense if we are going the route of splitting the picks to get two quality starters. I'm not sure the other guys are worth burning a first on.
It's just a quick list of a certain type of player with no thought paid to ranking them, their availability or what the cost of acquisition might be. There are probably 20 more names I could add if I thought about it, and I have no idea what the trade market is (none of us do), but that's a player type that literally isn't on this roster right now.
And honestly, since Kleber is probably the closest thing the Mavs have to someone belonging on that list, I'd say his injury increases the need for one of them, rather than bringing the need for yet another slow-footed ogre to the forefront. That's not what Kleber is, after all.
(12-19-2022, 01:40 PM)mvossman Wrote: So wouldn't PJ be a perfect solution in this case? Somebody who could provide emergency center minutes this season, while generally playing the big 4 this season and beyond?
Sure! I love Washington, but don't know what it gets you if Powell is the one you have to give up to get him. To me, that means that 90% of his minutes will be at the 5. And for the record, I'm fine with that and think that's probably the best way of using him, but I don't know that it's better than just keeping Powell and adding a 4 through some other means.
I just feel like the roster flatly does not have a prototypical 4. Not even one, unless you count Bertans. Maybe it's DFS's best position...that argument is there, and might be valid.
I just see some of the same people who were excited about McGee saying they need another big...I personally think most of them are going to look pretty much like he does.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - KillerLeft - 12-19-2022
I think I've reached the point where the only three names I'd want that 100% of this board would be comfortable calling "bigs" are Jokic, Embiid and Gobert.
Obviously, the Mavs can't get any of them, I'm just illustrating a point.
If Bam Adebayo had been drafted by Dallas, there would be 10 people here (you know who you are) arguing that he's "really a PF, but it's ok to play him as an undersized 5 at times, I guess." Incorrect. He is the prototypical 5, perfectly suited for that job, and in a few more years will probably end up a little on the "too big and too slow" side as he ages and the league continues to evolve.
That Wemby guy is going to end up playing the 5, and he'll end up running the offense as a ball-handler from above the break at the center position. Hide and watch. That's where this world is going.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - dirkfansince1998 - 12-19-2022
For me the situation is still the same as last year. On paper the Mavs have to many bigs on the roster. In reality I question if any of them has starter quality. Consider one of them unplayable.
One thing I have been questioning for years is the Mavs refusal to invest into the development of bigmen prospects. Something all teams in the league do. Just looking through the roster lists I couldn´t find a single team that does not have at least one PF/C on a rookie contract or under 25 on the roster. Except for the Mavs.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Chicagojk - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 02:21 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: For me the situation is still the same as last year. On paper the Mavs have to many bigs on the roster. In reality I question if any of them has starter quality. Consider one of them unplayable.
One thing I have been questioning for years is the Mavs refusal to invest into the development of bigmen prospects. Something all teams in the league do. Just looking through the roster lists I couldn´t find a single team that does not have at least one PF/C on a rookie contract or under 25 on the roster. Except for the Mavs.
Yeah, this is one of my priority items this offseason. To find one of these guys to develop. There have been several over the past few years who went in the second round...and a few who went undrafted.
For two ways, I am prioritizing the 6'5 to 6'9 guys who have a chance to devleop into 3 and D types. I wouldn't bypass someone who didn't fit these measurables if they could play, but I would lean more to the guys who are 6'5-6'9 wings.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - cow - 12-19-2022
We treat second round picks as if they have no value.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Nowitzki Way - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 02:21 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: One thing I have been questioning for years is the Mavs refusal to invest into the development of bigmen prospects. Something all teams in the league do. Just looking through the roster lists I couldn´t find a single team that does not have at least one PF/C on a rookie contract or under 25 on the roster. Except for the Mavs.
This has been a problem for the past decade or two or three. Who was the last "bigman" prospect we drafted/developed?
I would say it was probably Dirk. That is sad.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 12-19-2022
(12-18-2022, 06:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: We just watched Wood have his best couple of games as a single big, and his minutes with Powell have been terrible all season. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to start with those two on the court together.
Where do you get those stats?
RE: ROSTER TALK: - mvossman - 12-19-2022
(12-19-2022, 04:28 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Where do you get those stats?
One option is NBA.com advanced lineup stats.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Okstate819 - 12-20-2022
As many have talked about the best option for us at this time is a soft rebuild, or transactions that take us a small step back this season to help future seasons.t team. I would consider trading for PJ Washington or Rui Hachumira before the deadline. They can be rotation players on a winning team, and have room to develop in a good situation. They are both RFA and unlikely to be offered big deals from the current team Essentially buy-low candidates.
The UFA that we think could be long term fits ie.. Myles Turner, Fred Van Vleet, Gary Trent Jr, Bogdan Bogdonvic, Kyle Kuzma should all be at least inquired about. Your using the leverage of the upcoming FA and hopefully Nico/agent discussions to find one of these guys who wants to be here. As we get closer to the deadline teams realize they aren't getting a haul from a team who knows they arent re-signing the player, and you scoop in with a Wood/Bullock/ Protected 1st package and a handshake agreement on a new contract with the targeted player.
RE: ROSTER TALK: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 12-20-2022
(12-19-2022, 04:44 PM)mvossman Wrote: One option is NBA.com advanced lineup stats.
Thank you!
RE: ROSTER TALK: Maxi out indefinitely after hamstring tear surgery - Ghost of Podkolzin - 12-20-2022
Have you seen Dinwiddie's SF numbers last year? Insane. 26.2 PER. 11.2 Opponent PER. Not a huge sample size, about 7mins/game. How about this starting lineup with the current available roster?
PG - Luka
SG - Green
SF - Dinwiddie
PF - DFS
C - Wood