MAVS NEWS: Luka Is Hurt, But is Trudging On | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: MAVS NEWS: Luka Is Hurt, But is Trudging On | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT (/showthread.php?tid=2172) Pages:
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RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - mvossman - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 01:09 PM)omahen Wrote: Not sure why you think the author took this excercise as a personal attack on Mavs. I look at it as if I were to get the player for one year, who would I prefer to have. Using that measure: I think Timmy is roughly at the same level as the three players he is compared to. Brooks is a much better defender, but he is a chucker with a below 50% TS. That would be such a beating. I think Barnes defense has been overrated since he was here. I don't really think its any better than Timmy's. Hayward can't stay on the court consistently. I would agree with the OP assessment that he is probably too low on this list. Williams played 26 minutes a game on a deep contender. That shows more to me than a starter on a shitty team. There is not one guy in that list I would rather have than Williams for one year. Powell is not a traditional center, so he is not going to compare well in traditional center stats you are probably looking at. His impact on the court has always been better than what it looks like it should be. That being said, I sincerely hope that Holmes recaptures what he was before everything went to shit for him. Before the eye injury he would be roughly middle of the road on this list. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - The Jom - 09-05-2023 I would’ve ranked Luka #3 behind #2 Curry and #1 the Harlem Globetrotters. What, you say the Globetrotters are not a point guard? Neither is Luka. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 02:44 PM)The Jom Wrote: I would’ve ranked Luka #3 behind #2 Curry and #1 the Harlem Globetrotters. What, you say the Globetrotters are not a point guard? Neither is Luka. He is a PG on offense. 100%. It's defense where he plays a different position, but labeling people by their defensive position has always seemed silly to me, especially when it comes to PG, which implies offensive facility right there in its name. Magic Johnson was even bigger than Luka, and I'm sure he defended a ton of forwards, and even bigs from time to time. We call him a PG, right? RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - ItsGoTime - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 01:38 PM)omahen Wrote: I was too quick going through that piece. The author assessed the team total at each position, which is represented by the chosen starter. The starter weight on the score is roughly 70 %. Thats why George backed by Powell combo is 3rd in SG, for example. Of course each excercise like that is subjective to an extent. But, it gives us a picture, what a more or less objective author thinks about where Mavs are. To be honest, I am not at all interested in disecting each player and if he should be 25th or 26th on the list as I don't think it is that much important in a big picture.Ya, this is what makes the 1 v 1 arguments moot. I read through the article and looked mostly at the top 10, then where Mavs were ranked. I wasn’t fully happy with some of the rankings nor the players representing the position, but the next ranking I fully agree with will be the first. (09-05-2023, 02:50 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: He is a PG on offense. 100%.At the beginning of the article he actually wrote about his disdain for the term positionless basketball. “ I have expressed my disdain for the term “positionless” in multiple stories over the years. Position versatility > positionless, if anything. Players should not be in an absence of position, but rather put in position (no pun intended) to succeed in the roles the traditional positions typically require. Being able to fulfill a variety of roles offensively and defend a variety of players defensively allows coaches to have different lineups on the floor and for reserves to get and stay on the floor.” RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 03:06 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: At the beginning of the article he actually wrote about his disdain for the term positionless basketball. I agree with the disdain. I think that was a phrase thrown around about a decade ago in some specific situations, noting some specific philosophical inflection points, but that the media and fans have just run with it, to a point where people are spamming it to mean things it was never intended to convey. There are positions, of course, and players are still required to learn the responsibilities of the ones they play within the confines of their systems. It's just the the responsibilities and expectations for what each position does have changed a lot from what longtime basketball followers might consider traditional. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 02:44 PM)The Jom Wrote: I would’ve ranked Luka #3 behind #2 Curry and #1 the Harlem Globetrotters. What, you say the Globetrotters are not a point guard? Neither is Luka. THIS!!! Luka is a flex SF/PF who plays from the point. Just like Joker is a C who plays from the point, yet no one calls Joker a PG. What is the ranking for SFs? RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 03:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree with the disdain. I think that was a phrase thrown around about a decade ago in some specific situations, noting some specific philosophical inflection points, but that the media and fans have just run with it, to a point where people are spamming it to mean things it was never intended to convey. Really and truly, the NBA is only positionless on who runs the point and defensive switching. I haven't been a huge fan of the term "wing" in that it brushes over distribution for SGs and rebounding for SFs. I have no problem using "wing" for defense, except defensive rebounding. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - surfpuckmd - 09-06-2023 (09-05-2023, 12:16 PM)omahen Wrote: Interesting analysis. They ranked starters of each team on each position. Here is where Mavs are according to this: It's always interesting to see what an objective outsider thinks of our roster. Thanks for posting. I do think he has our players somewhat lower than they deserve but I think it does illustrate how weak our roster is apart from Luka and Kyrie. My greatest criticism of his rankings (besides the pitiful charts) is his analysis of our small forward position. I actually believe the THJ/Josh Green combination is pretty strong and probably should rank at league average. I think THJ is already a quality starter and Josh will become one. I think our small forward position should rank somewhere between 15th to 18th in the league. The reality is that we are counting on improvement of our young players to elevate our roster. Especially, we are anticipating Josh Green continues to improve and becomes the starter at SF. We are also hoping Derrick Lively develops over the next couple of years and becomes our starting center. I like this approach and it's more fun to project the future potential of our young players than see us constantly turning over the roster every off-season with veterans who are past their prime. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-06-2023 (09-06-2023, 03:40 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: It's always interesting to see what an objective outsider thinks of our roster. Thanks for posting. In all reality, Luka is our starting SF. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-06-2023 (09-06-2023, 12:06 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: In all reality, Luka is our starting SF. Incorrect. He's the PG. On defense, he plays forward, for sure. Not always the 3, though. He plays the 4 quite a bit, too. But, the guy with the ball in his hands (above the break, and even bringing the ball up) 97% of the time IS, FACTUALLY, the point guard. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - mvossman - 09-06-2023 (09-06-2023, 12:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Incorrect. He's the PG. Yeah, its what makes doing lineup depth charts awkward because Luka is always going to be the point when he is on the floor, but generally a forward when playing defensively. It also probably makes substitutions a little more complicated. You can't simply replace him with another PG, or our undersized lineup becomes even more undersized. If you are leaving Kyrie on the floor while Luka goes out, then you want to bring in a forward to fill his defensive spot, but we don't have one that can handle secondary playmaking, so other changes may need to be made. There are a lot of advantages to having a point forward, but it does make the rotations interesting to manage. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - dirkfansince1998 - 09-06-2023 (09-06-2023, 12:44 PM)mvossman Wrote: Yeah, its what makes doing lineup depth charts awkward because Luka is always going to be the point when he is on the floor, but generally a forward when playing defensively. It also probably makes substitutions a little more complicated. You can't simply replace him with another PG, or our undersized lineup becomes even more undersized. If you are leaving Kyrie on the floor while Luka goes out, then you want to bring in a forward to fill his defensive spot, but we don't have one that can handle secondary playmaking, so other changes may need to be made. There are a lot of advantages to having a point forward, but it does make the rotations interesting to manage. On paper it should make things easier because you can go big/small and still have enough ballhandling on the floor but for whatever reason the Mavs cannot make it work. A big playmaker should be an advantage. Teams that want a similiar level of playmaking/shot creation on the floor that a Luka/Kyrie duo can offer usually have to go small. For example the Lillard/McCollum Blazers. Problem isn´t the size or position. Problem is that Luka isn´t a good defender (or at least not good enough on a consistent basis) no matter where he plays. Same for Kyrie. Meaning that the Mavs always need at least one legit "small" and one "legit" big wing/forward" defender next to them. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023 (09-06-2023, 12:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Incorrect. He's the PG. So Joker is a PG? RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023 Y'all, on both offense and defense Luka is a point forward, a SF that plays from the point. This is what allows us to have Luka and two guards on the floor without any issues. See Joker for reference. I don't think anyone is going to deny he's a point center. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - omahen - 09-07-2023 (09-07-2023, 07:45 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Y'all, on both offense and defense Luka is a point forward, a SF that plays from the point. This is what allows us to have Luka and two guards on the floor without any issues. See Joker for reference. I don't think anyone is going to deny he's a point center. You can describe Luka as point forward if you wish. But the fact that he is a PG, also allows us to play two shooting guards or one guard and one wing instead of a PG and SG. This is what allows Mavs to have a bigger team on the floor without sacrificing any playmaking. Average PG is much smaller than Luka. I would say while Jokic is a point center, he is not really Denvers PG. That is Murray and I think Denver always plays with a PG on the floor. Jokic is just very good at facilitating and creating, but he is not running PnR, for example. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023 Wood is going to excel. https://theathletic.com/4837058/2023/09/06/christian-wood-lakers-free-agent/ RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023 (09-07-2023, 07:52 AM)omahen Wrote: You can describe Luka as point forward if you wish. But the fact that he is a PG, also allows us to play two shooting guards or one guard and one wing instead of a PG and SG. This is what allows Mavs to have a bigger team on the floor without sacrificing any playmaking. Average PG is much smaller than Luka. Joker plays from the point. Murray is no more a PG than Kyrie is. It wasn't until the playoffs that Murray did so much distribution because Joker can play off the ball. This is maturity in their playing together. I see Luka and Kyrie developing the same. Luka is rarely ever guarded by PGs, more often SFs. Ditto on on who he guards. Point GUARD is a guard. Luka is not a guard in any way. He is a SF who plays from the point, on both offense and defense. This matters only in that it gives us extreme flexibility (similar to DEN). You can play Luka with two guards, or a guard and another SF. I would love to have a Tari Eason/OG type SF en lieu of THJ/J.Green, going big and taking advantage of a Lebron sized point forward. Kyrie J.Green Luka PF C or Kyrie Eason/OG Luka PF C RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - HoosierDaddyKid - 09-07-2023 (09-07-2023, 07:58 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Wood is going to excel. Very good writeup RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - KillerLeft - 09-07-2023 (09-07-2023, 07:41 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: So Joker is a PG? No, because how/where they handle the ball is completely, night and day different. One is a PG, the other is a center who handles the ball a ton, relative to others at his position. (09-07-2023, 07:52 AM)omahen Wrote: You can describe Luka as point forward if you wish. But the fact that he is a PG, also allows us to play two shooting guards or one guard and one wing instead of a PG and SG. This is what allows Mavs to have a bigger team on the floor without sacrificing any playmaking. Average PG is much smaller than Luka. This ^^^ I can't believe we don't have consensus on this. Luka is 100% playing PG for the Mavericks and has been since the back half of his rookie season. RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs S/W McGee, sign Morris - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-07-2023 (09-07-2023, 11:09 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: No, because how/where they handle the ball is completely, night and day different. Question 1: Is Lebron 4th in career assists? Question 2: Is Lebron a forward? Question 3: Is Luka Lebron-like on offense? Question 4: Are we able to play 2 guards with Luka? Question 5: What position usually guards Luka? Question 6: What position does Luka usually guard? My Answers: Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, SF, SF (obvious conclusion = Luka is a Point Forward) Point is a role. Position is different. You can be a point from PG, SF, PF, or C as Magic, Marques Johnson, Paul Pressey, Pippen, Lebron, Joker, and YES LUKA have proven. Luka is our Point SF. With him on the court, we almost always have 2 guards. |