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+--- Thread: DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] (/showthread.php?tid=200)
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RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - SleepingHero - 11-02-2020
Hampton is one of those guys that I think, if he ever becomes anything in the NBA, its going to take at least 3 years in a good org. I can see him succeeding in a place like Boston or Spurs. But I don't think they'd pick him precisely cause he's so raw.
Odds are a team like the Cavs, Magic, or Pistons are going to fall in love with him and he'll be out of the league in 4 years. I hope I'm wrong, seems like a nice guy.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - JamesConway - 11-02-2020
Im out on Hampton as well. Dors not look like a player RC would play. Meh shooting, but still very unpolisged creator. Hes quick and athletic but I doubt that is enough. If were going for raw guys Id rather bring in an athletic wing with the three ball as his swing skill.
Also: in on Ty-Shon Alexander. He looks like an impactful defender and we need a guy who is quick to guard PGs but can shoot it too.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - khaled1987 - 11-02-2020
I have a question to those who watched K.Hayes, who many thinks he might be our target if we move up
Is he a good midrange player? and does he relies a lot on his jumper?
This is something I noticed from watching his videos, he is more of a midrange guy rather than "3 or lay up" type that modern NBA uses.
For me this is a double edged sword, I think a really good midrange game will be an icing on the cake for this team offense, especially with our problems closing games. Problem is if he isn't really good at that, he will be a bench player on our system
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - ClutchDirk - 11-02-2020
https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/1323246898673819648
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - burekemde - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 09:00 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: I have a question to those who watched K.Hayes, who many thinks he might be our target if we move up
Is he a good midrange player? and does he relies a lot on his jumper?
This is something I noticed from watching his videos, he is more of a midrange guy rather than "3 or lay up" type that modern NBA uses.
For me this is a double edged sword, I think a really good midrange game will be an icing on the cake for this team offense, especially with our problems closing games. Problem is if he isn't really good at that, he will be a bench player on our system
Very good questions. Key ones. Indeed mid range game will get revival in the NBA simply as the defenses start "forgetting" how to cover that, as the focus shifts to defending layups and the 3 pointers. However, to be able to use a player as this, you need to have the skillset, and fewer and fewer have this. We have seen Kawhi what he did to us with mid range game, it was unstoppable. Same with Durant. He is not in this league of course, but main question is whether he is effective enough in mid range game to be used as this. If not, I agree he may end up risking not playing much. I do not know much about Hayes, but from videos it does look like one of his favourite ways to score. To me, S. Bey really stands out for the mid range game and its really rare to see this these days. Also for mid range game, size is the key to be able to post up and still get the shot off. i think Sadiq has this, but I doubt Killian Hayes, even if good in mid range will be able to post and get the shot off consistently without getting in troubles being blocked by NBA level defenders. Once you are engaged with the physicality of NBA level players in the mid range, its much harder, and here I really wonder if Hayes has the strength/size to be able to be effective. Mid range game, contrary to the 3 point shot, really requires some of this to be able to make space enough. This skillset is the main one while I think S. Bey will have a shot to be great as you dont see young players any more able to post up and make the mid range jumper with ease and consistency. I like what I see in mid range from Hayes, but I think he may be too easy to cover in these situations with NBA defenders. But I am not sure, its a great question and indeed its important to look at what and which skills can translate on the next level. If a players main skill does not translate, its going to be difficult to play a lot in the NBA indeed.
To me, as it stands now, as mid range game is not the favourite of most of the league, you better be really really good, for the team to consistently ask you to do this. For this, there should be no question marks with this skillset. For Hayes, I think size/strength is question mark, because as soon as you move into the mid range territory you have to expect that defenders with great size will cover you. And here I do not see Hayes as effective, but I do see Sadiq as a real weapon here that defenses will not be able to do much about.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 09:00 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: I have a question to those who watched K.Hayes, who many thinks he might be our target if we move up
Is he a good midrange player? and does he relies a lot on his jumper?
I will let his shot chart speak for itself to answer your question (happy to dialogue more about it as well if you are interested):
![[Image: killian-hayes-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg]](http://stats-prod.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/65/2020/06/killian-hayes-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg)
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - KillerLeft - 11-02-2020
We already saw the mid range game come alive during the Dallas – clippers series. Both Curry and Burke seemed to have green lights from there.
Kawhi’s whole game is built on those shots.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 10:11 AM)burekemde Wrote: To me, S. Bey really stands out for the mid range game
Here is SBey's shot chart (his midrange game is really bad even though he does it a lot):
![[Image: saddiq-bey-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg]](http://stats-prod.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/65/2020/06/saddiq-bey-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg)
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - KillerLeft - 11-02-2020
Interesting that Hayes takes and makes so many 3’s from the top of the arc. I wonder how many of those are catch and shoot and now many are shots that he dribbles into?
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
Hayes midrange game is ELITE....
But another player who has a GOOD midrange game (though baseline game is just average) is Tyler Bey (ALL roads lead to TBey!):
![[Image: tyler-bey-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg]](http://stats-prod.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/65/2020/06/tyler-bey-shot-chart-1024x799.jpg)
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - KillerLeft - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 10:21 AM)Kammrath Wrote:(11-02-2020, 10:11 AM)burekemde Wrote: To me, S. Bey really stands out for the mid range game
Here is SBey's shot chart (his midrange game is really bad even though he does it a lot):
Not surprising for a go to guy. Should be an easy thing to break him of that habit at the next level.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 10:21 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I wonder how many of those are catch and shoot and now many are shots that he dribbles into?
His catch and shoot game is his BIGGEST weakness as he is only 12th percentile (0.67 PPP) while he is good to great at off the dribble in the 77th percentile (0.99 PPP).
If you draft him as DAL you draft him as a secondary creator off the dribble while working him hard on his catch and shoot game so he can space the floor next to Luka.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
Quote:The format of this year’s combine has resulted in some leaguewide skepticism about the results being reported, according to reports from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic and Jeremy Woo of SI.com (Twitter links). Because the tests are being administered by different people at different facilities, there are some concerns about the consistency of the methods, per Vecenie and Woo.
According to Woo (Twitter link), there’s also a theory that because prospects have had several extra months to prepare for a handful of specific drills, the results have been skewed toward the high end. Determining how to assess and value the combine data will be another wrinkle in what his been an extremely unusual pre-draft process, says Woo (Twitter link).
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - burekemde - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 10:21 AM)Kammrath Wrote:(11-02-2020, 10:11 AM)burekemde Wrote: To me, S. Bey really stands out for the mid range game
Here is SBey's shot chart (his midrange game is really bad even though he does it a lot):
Is this based on last season or in total? These numbers should be taken with caution like all stats should. I am also referring more to how he can score in what situations.
This also depends on the situation and if one shoots as covered up mid range, or an open mid range shot. In the end, watching to understand if he can do or not is more important IMO.
With S. Bey, this is most often where he is covered, posting someone up and getting the shot off, one on one, this is what I find most thrilling about his game, more than his 3 point or inside game.
Its like people that say Luka cant shoot 3s that he is terrible. They do not account that he does it in the most difficult imaginable situations, where defense cant do anything about, where he is covered, and stepping back. If he was shooting open 3 point shots every game, multiple times, his stats would look different obviously.
Sadiq can take the midrange game in a well covered defense and score. Due to his strength and size, this has more chance to translate IMO.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 01:09 PM)burekemde Wrote: Sadiq can take the midrange game in a well covered defense and score. Due to his strength and size, this has more chance to translate IMO.
I personally don't see that when I watch his film. I don't see much of anything in his game other than the 3&D that I think translates to the NBA very well. I see him as having a ceiling as a starting role player 3&D guy. AND because of what I see as lesser athleticism and quickness and explosion, I actually have concerns about the true ceiling of his defensive potential. Whereas Tyler Bey I think could be NBA defensive player of the year (that's his ceiling IMO).
P.S. I definitely think SBey will likely be the much better 3 point shooter in the NBA than TBey.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Scott41theMavs - 11-02-2020
I just read a piece on Mavs Moneyball which makes me feel like I've been a blind idiot the past few weeks. That report about the Mavs in win-now mode, and doing everything they can to trade into the lottery? The piece basically said that the Mavs don't draft well, generally don't play rookies when they're good (the Mavs, not the rookies), and often use the draft for trades, so their likely effort right now is to obtain a lottery pick - and then turn around and trade that for an established player.
Freaking duh. I'm so stupid to have gotten my hopes up. Thing is, if you can get a lottery pick in this year's draft with the pupu assets the Mavs have, then that lottery pick isn't likely to get you much of a player in return, which omits the one I'd really like to see them target (Jrue). So I'll be pissed twice over.
16 days until we trade up and then trade our pick. (banghead, banghead, banghead)
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - khaled1987 - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 10:12 AM)Kammrath Wrote:(11-02-2020, 09:00 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: I have a question to those who watched K.Hayes, who many thinks he might be our target if we move up
Is he a good midrange player? and does he relies a lot on his jumper?
I will let his shot chart speak for itself to answer your question (happy to dialogue more about it as well if you are interested):
Would appreciate it,
but very good chart, it seems his midrange shots are more calculated
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - burekemde - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 01:34 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(11-02-2020, 01:09 PM)burekemde Wrote: Sadiq can take the midrange game in a well covered defense and score. Due to his strength and size, this has more chance to translate IMO.
I personally don't see that when I watch his film. I don't see much of anything in his game other than the 3&D that I think translates to the NBA very well. I see him as having a ceiling as a starting role player 3&D guy. AND because of what I see as lesser athleticism and quickness and explosion, I actually have concerns about the true ceiling of his defensive potential. Whereas Tyler Bey I think could be NBA defensive player of the year (that's his ceiling IMO).
P.S. I definitely think SBey will likely be the much better 3 point shooter in the NBA than TBey.
I might be wrong about his mid range game. I thought and was expecting the numbers/stats were better than those you showed, judging by the games i saw..i also have no doubt in his 3 and defensive game. I was impressed by his mid range game and passing (limited but he was efficient). This gave me hope he might be more than just 3 and D wing but a one on one weapon on offense. Anyway it might have been anomalies those games. Or it might have been streches that suggest he has that in him and that part will come.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - Kammrath - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 02:14 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: it seems his midrange shots are more calculated
IMO I think Hayes's midrange game is complementary and not a "go-to" even though he is truly ELITE at it. I think when the defense gives him the midrange he takes it and does not force it and hence does it REALLY efficiently. I think that is EXACTLY what you want in the modern NBA. Excel at 3s and layups, but have the third level midrange when it is essentially wide open.
As soon as Hayes has his three point shot refined and the catch and shoot game he will likely be a 20-25 pt game scorer in the NBA. I truly see him as one of the few "stars" in this draft.
(11-02-2020, 02:09 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I just read a piece on Mavs Moneyball which makes me feel like I've been a blind idiot the past few weeks. That report about the Mavs in win-now mode, and doing everything they can to trade into the lottery? The piece basically said that the Mavs don't draft well, generally don't play rookies when they're good (the Mavs, not the rookies), and often use the draft for trades, so their likely effort right now is to obtain a lottery pick - and then turn around and trade that for an established player.
I think that will be proven to be completely wrong. This feels like fan, arm-chair GM overthinking.
Occam's Razor should prevail here:
By far the simplest thing is NOT that the Mavs are trying to spend a lot of effort to move up in the draft only to flip (that would be so incredibly complicated with so many moving parts and things falling into place in a very tight timeframe). The by far simplest thing is that the Mavs LOVE someone in the draft and MAY move up to get him if he falls to a spot they can reach.
P.S. I do think you should measure your expectations though and keep them in check. Even if the Mavs have a strong desire to move up it probably only has like a 20% chance of happening.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | DAL #18 & #31 | 'strong desire' to trade up | Hal & SBey workout - ItsGoTime - 11-02-2020
(11-02-2020, 02:38 PM)Kammrath Wrote:Could be a 3 team trade type thing with the pick going to the 3rd team while the Mavs get the best player in the trade. That could be a Jrue type thing. NO could be looking to get more young guys to grow with their young guys.(11-02-2020, 02:14 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: it seems his midrange shots are more calculated
IMO I think Hayes's midrange game is complementary and not a "go-to" even though he is truly ELITE at it. I think when the defense gives him the midrange he takes it and does not force it and hence does it REALLY efficiently. I think that is EXACTLY what you want in the modern NBA. Excel at 3s and layups, but have the third level midrange when it is essentially wide open.
As soon as Hayes has his three point shot refined and the catch and shoot game he will likely be a 20-25 pt game scorer in the NBA. I truly see him as one of the few "stars" in this draft.
(11-02-2020, 02:09 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I just read a piece on Mavs Moneyball which makes me feel like I've been a blind idiot the past few weeks. That report about the Mavs in win-now mode, and doing everything they can to trade into the lottery? The piece basically said that the Mavs don't draft well, generally don't play rookies when they're good (the Mavs, not the rookies), and often use the draft for trades, so their likely effort right now is to obtain a lottery pick - and then turn around and trade that for an established player.
I think that will be proven to be completely wrong. This feels like fan, arm-chair GM overthinking.
Occam's Razor should prevail here:
By far the simplest thing is NOT that the Mavs are trying to spend a lot of effort to move up in the draft only to flip (that would be so incredibly complicated with so many moving parts and things falling into place in a very tight timeframe). The by far simplest thing is that the Mavs LOVE someone in the draft and MAY move up to get him if he falls to a spot they can reach.
P.S. I do think you should measure your expectations though and keep them in check. Even if the Mavs have a strong desire to move up it probably only has like a 20% chance of happening.