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+--- Thread: DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] (/showthread.php?tid=200)
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RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - omahen - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 03:18 PM)Kammrath Wrote: If the Mavs like Killian there is a decent shot he is there at #6.
I think Atlanta wants an established player. I don't think Dallas has anything interesting for them that we would want to give.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 03:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I don't think the Mavs are "advertising" this. If you are getting possible draft-day trades lined up you have to talk to other teams and those other teams are leaking that you are looking to do this. You just can't hide that kind of thing.
This feels 100% legit. And nothing may happen, but this still may be VERY real, it just means the guy the Mavs love didn't slide to a spot they could get to.
I agree that they're not advertising anything.
But, the info listed SEVERAL possible avenues of improvement, and what we can probably guess, if we're honest, is that even if ANY of them are possible, they're certainly not ALL possible in combination, given the resources on hand. We don't know which is plan A, B, C, etc. We'll probably never know.
My guess is that the Hayward thing is MOST real, and your take is that trading deep into the lottery is most real. I'd say it's possible that our preferences are coloring the logic just a bit, lol.
Just happy that we're talking about big swings. That part is welcome news.
I'll say this, Kamm: I have a feeling you won't need to get as high as #6 to get Hayes. I haven't noticed anyone besides O'Conner list him among the very best (not saying he shouldn't be).
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Kammrath - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 03:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I have a feeling you won't need to get as high as #6 to get Hayes. I haven't noticed anyone besides O'Conner list him among the very best (not saying he shouldn't be).
O'Connor said today that many teams rank Hayes as top 5 on their boards, but the mainstream public and media are just not seeing what many NBA teams are seeing. So seems to be a disconnect between team-evals and fan-evals.
(10-28-2020, 03:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: My guess is that the Hayward thing is MOST real, and your take is that trading deep into the lottery is most real.
I actually think those aren't mutually exclusive. To give BOS real quality back for Hayward (who could walk) I think the Mavs should get #14 from BOS for #18 (meaning the Mavs DO get to the lottery). That satisfies both things. And maybe with #14, the Mavs have the ammo still to jump higher into the lottery.
I like the Hayward situation because I don't think you have to break the bank to make it happen.
...BUT it ALL hinges on Hayward wanting and demanding to be in DAL. IF that piece is true then everything opens up. When players WANT a particular destination and not just the biggest contract, so much opens up.
P.S. If I am the Mavs I am wanting to use all my assets to do two things:
1) Get an established player/star whose value is low (like Hayward).
2) Trade up into the lottery to get the guy my scouts LOVE.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I/giphy.gif)
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
@"Kammrath" I don't see the need for the pick swap. I think it's wishful thinking. Boston doing Dallas a favor and having to pay for the privilege doesn't track, imo.
But, if I'm wrong, I'll be happy about it! An established player who can help and a stab at a younger asset would be a nice haul for one off-season.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Kammrath - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Boston doing Dallas a favor
If the Mavs are giving BOS Maxi/Curry/THJ/whoever for a guy with 100% the power to walk for nothing, it is DAL who is doing BOS the favor.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Hypermav - 10-28-2020
I really think losing Curry would be a mistake.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:19 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(10-28-2020, 04:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Boston doing Dallas a favor
If the Mavs are giving BOS Maxi/Curry/THJ/whoever for a guy with 100% the power to walk for nothing, it is DAL who is doing BOS the favor.
But that's not what was rumored. What I'm talking about is a sign and trade for a multi year contract.
Hell, if he's opting into that last year, we're right back to where we've been for the past month. Totally different conversation. It's the idea that Hayward and Dallas are negotiating a contract that's new today. In that scenario, Boston would absolutely have to be on board.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - michaeltex - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:19 PM)Kammrath Wrote:100% agree.(10-28-2020, 04:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Boston doing Dallas a favor
If the Mavs are giving BOS Maxi/Curry/THJ/whoever for a guy with 100% the power to walk for nothing, it is DAL who is doing BOS the favor.
Stupid question here... There are two draft candidates with the last name Bey, a little unusual. Are they related?
Not important. Haven't followed whatever passed for an NCAA season and don't know the players.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - LukaDrive - 10-28-2020
Keeping on the trade up theme. What about a trade with gsw?
Wiggins+2nd pick for maxi+seth+delon+18+31
They get their super role players locked up for the next few years and thet get off wiggins' bad contract and seth gets reunited with family.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
Yeah, so I'm still interested in trading for Hayward if he opts in, don't get me wrong. But, that's a totally different conversation and the Mavs very likely don't have the best offer in that scenario.
THIS RUMOR TODAY IS NOT THAT.
This one is about him opting out, choosing to sign in Dallas, and Boston doing them both a favor by facilitating it so that he can make more money than they (Boston) are willing to pay, and so Hayward can get to one of his preferred destinations.
If THIS scenario happens, it is in no way Dallas doing Boston a favor.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Kammrath - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This one is about him opting out, choosing to sign in Dallas, and Boston doing them both a favor by facilitating it so that he can make more money than they are willing to pay, and so Hayward can get to one of his preferred destinations.
If Hayward opts out then he can walk and BOS (the kings of asset management) would lose a huge asset for nothing. That gives Hayward leverage. That means DAL is doing BOS a favor by giving them players in return for a guy who could walk. The reward for that is moving up 4 spots in the draft.
P.S. If the Mavs wanted to create space to sign Hayward outright I am almost 100% certain they could do it. This gives Hayward and DAL leverage over BOS.
(10-28-2020, 04:24 PM)michaeltex Wrote: There are two draft candidates with the last name Bey, a little unusual. Are they related?
No.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - omahen - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: That means DAL is doing BOS a favor by giving them players in return
You are assuming Boston really, really wants that players. What if they don't?
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(10-28-2020, 04:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This one is about him opting out, choosing to sign in Dallas, and Boston doing them both a favor by facilitating it so that he can make more money than they are willing to pay, and so Hayward can get to one of his preferred destinations.
If Hayward opts out then he can walk and BOS (the kings of asset management) would lose a huge asset for nothing. That gives Hayward leverage. That means DAL is doing BOS a favor by giving them players in return for a guy who could walk. The reward for that is moving up 4 spots in the draft.
P.S. If the Mavs wanted to create space to sign Hayward outright I am almost 100% certain they could do it. This gives Hayward and DAL leverage over BOS.
The last part is actually a good point.
I still don't see it as a situation wherein Dallas is getting what THEY want. Like, a deal where they're put upon and need to be compensated. But, then again, we don't really know what the deal is, either.
Again, I'd be happy to be wrong. I'm just saying I don't at all NEED them to move up four spots to make me feel good about the deal.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Kammrath - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:28 PM)LukaDrive Wrote: Wiggins+2nd pick for maxi+seth+delon+18+31
Interesting idea.
I just have no sense of the real value of the #2 pick this year, I am just 100% certain it is the cheapest a #2 pick will basically EVER be. But to take on Wiggins AND give up 4 good assets the Mavs better LOVE who is there at #2.
As far as trade up spots I think based on rumors and reports there are 4 spots:
#2 (GSW)
#6 (ATL)
#10 (PHX)
#14 (BOS
Those are all available for the right price it seems. So IF the Mavs trade up I think that is where you are looking.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/10/wolves-gupta-on-draft-were-ready-to-pick.html
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Tyler - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 04:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: P.S. If the Mavs wanted to create space to sign Hayward outright I am almost 100% certain they could do it.
Good point.
Let's assume the rumors are right and the cap will be set at $109mm. Dallas currently has $110mm in salaries. So basically every dollar they're able to trade away for air is a dollar they can offer to a free agent.
If I'm Dallas, I'd have two goals in this situation:
1. Do NOT trade players who are free agents in '21 (because we need them to expire to create cap space).
2. Try to maximize their value while not taking any salary back. The best way to do this is to get picks. But a S&T for another player also works.
The options that meet criteria #1 are Powell (11), Wright (9), Maxi(8.25), Curry(7.8), and DFS(4). They total about $40mm in salary next year. Dallas obviously wouldn't trade all of them, but they also probably wouldn't have to in order to clear plenty of space to sign a FA like Hayward.
The teams I'd look at for criteria #2 are ones with lots of cap space who might be willing to deal their higher pick for our 2 picks plus a few good players. Let's say Atlanta would trade #6 for 18, 31, Wright, and Maxi. That's a lot of value for one pick that they don't seem too enthused about keeping anyway. Dallas gets a lottery pick, clears enough cap space to sign a guy like Hayward for about $16mm and their '21 cap space is still untouched (pending whatever small salary difference there is between 6 and 18+31).
Now maybe that's not enough money for Hayward to opt out, but you get the idea. Tweak away. But the moral of the story is that I do think there could be ways to clear space for him without depending on a S&T to get it done. And BTW, the same approach could apply to Gallo. Honestly, locking up a scoring wing who is a clear starter while preserving cap space in '21 would be a huge win this offseason, IMO. Even if it takes trading off some of the bench depth to do it.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 06:09 PM)Tyler Wrote:(10-28-2020, 04:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: P.S. If the Mavs wanted to create space to sign Hayward outright I am almost 100% certain they could do it.
Good point.
Let's assume the rumors are right and the cap will be set at $109mm. Dallas currently has $110mm in salaries. So basically every dollar they're able to trade away for air is a dollar they can offer to a free agent.
If I'm Dallas, I'd have two goals in this situation:
1. Do NOT trade players wo are free agents in '21 (because we need them to expire to create cap space).
2. Try to maximize their value while not taking any salary back. The best way to do this is to get picks. But a S&T for another player also works.
The options that meet criteria #1 are Powell (11), Wright (9), Maxi(8.25), Curry(7.8), and DFS(4). They total about $40mm in salary next year. Dallas obviously wouldn't trade all of them, but they also probably wouldn't have to in order to clear plenty of space to sign a FA like Hayward.
The teams I'd look at for criteria #2 are ones with lots of cap space who might be willing to deal their higher pick for our 2 picks plus a few good players. Let's say Atlanta would trade #6 for 18, 31, Wright, and Maxi. That's a lot of value for one pick that they don't seem too enthused about keeping anyway. Dallas gets a lottery pick, clears enough cap space to sign a guy like Hayward for about $16mm and their '21 cap space is still untouched (pending whatever small salary difference there is between 6 and 18+31).
Now maybe that's not enough money for Hayward to opt out, but you get the idea. Tweak away. But the moral of the story is that I do think there could be ways to clear space for him without depending on a S&T to get it done. And BTW, the same approach could apply to Gallo. Honestly, locking up a scoring wing who is a clear starter while preserving cap space in '21 would be a huge win this offseason, IMO. Even if it takes trading off some of the bench depth to do it.
You just entered the conversation for forum MVP, my dude. You are bringing the good stuff today.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Mavs2019 - 10-28-2020
#10 with Phoenix is a strong possibility imho. They seem to be in love with Lewis, who will probably be there at #18.
Oubre + #10 for #18 + Kleber?
Oubre + #10 for #18?
Boston seems a similar possibility.
#14 +#26 for #18 + Kleber?
I think Kleber would be the guy both teams are very interested in. Both teams lack a mobile defensive PF/C on a decent contract.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Kammrath - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 06:09 PM)Tyler Wrote: to clear plenty of space to sign a FA like Hayward.
And its not just Hayward....
- Jerami Grant
- OPJ
- Bogdanovic
- Gallo
Mavs can be players THIS offseason AND next if they want.
(10-28-2020, 06:47 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: #10 with Phoenix is a strong possibility imho.
Yes, very much.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - KillerLeft - 10-28-2020
@"Kammrath" I've been diving into Hayes for like two hours now. I LOVE the guy, and you could convince me he has a chance to be the best of the class. Do you really think he's the best fit for the Mavs?
I know I've been typing "secondary playmaker" into every third post I write here, but idk...that kid just seems like he needs to go somewhere where he can BE Luka, not play next to him.
I wonder how far Vassell's new busted shot will make him fall. I think he'd still be my pick for Dallas. I still like SBey and Nesmith, too. Seems like any of those guys could be available in that 10-15 range, yeah? Maybe not Vassell, but there's a chance.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18, 6pm | Mavs get #18 & #31 | DAL 'strong desire' to trade into lottery - Kammrath - 10-28-2020
(10-28-2020, 08:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: @Kammrath I've been diving into Hayes for like two hours now. I LOVE the guy, and you could convince me he has a chance to be the best of the class. Do you really think he's the best fit for the Mavs?
Do I? "I" don't matter.
I didn't think Kemba was a good fit in ANY shape or form and was VERY frustrated the Mavs seemed to chase him so seriously.
However, I think Hayes is like a ten times better fit than Kemba would have been.... longer, better defender, and has international pedigree. I say the last part is important because I think internationals will be more likely to submit to Luka as the Alpha AND I think internationals tend to be much more selfless and team oriented in general. I think if you want another ball dominant creator, then IMO I think you want a player with international pedigree who will seemlessly sacrifice for the team goal knowing that Luka MUST be the dominant Alpha.
So point being, it is my guess that Hayes would be VERY high on the Mavs board for this draft and possibly number one. And honestly he is probably number one on my board for this whole class in regard to Mavs fit (I have just assumed there is no way he would fall to a spot the Mavs could get to). Because to me he screams "star" more than anyone else (and that's what Donnie loves).
My current guess on this "strong desire" to move into the lottery situation:
1) Hayes is number one (or VERY close) on the Mavs board.
2) If he drops to #6 or #10 the Mavs are trying to line up trades with ATL and PHX respectively.
My other guesses are Vassell or Haliburton as the targets, but I see them much more as likely role players (though very STRONG ones) and not "stars."
(10-28-2020, 08:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I wonder how far Vassell's new busted shot will make him fall. I think he'd still be my pick for Dallas. I still like SBey and Nesmith, too. Seems like any of those guys could be available in that 10-15 range, yeah? Maybe not Vassell, but there's a chance.
I think Vassell, SBey, and Nesmith all have VERY real chances to be available at #10 and SBey and Nesmith could make it to #14 in a lot of scenarios. SBey and Nesmith making it to #18 is a chance...but REALLY small IMO.