DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] (/showthread.php?tid=200) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
|
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mavs2019 - 10-02-2020 (10-02-2020, 01:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:So why are we talking about trades and the draft?(10-02-2020, 01:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(10-02-2020, 01:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think it's pretty much impossible for the Mavs to reach true contender status before Luka's rookie max extension even happens. Has ANYONE ever done that? We need to break down, who appoints NBA umpires and which are most susceptiable to bribes. Though the truly difficult part will be to install Avery Johnson as the new headcoach of our finals opponent before it starts. Well I guess we sticky with the easier plan. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-02-2020 To clarify my position on Luka, I don't think we have to do anything stupid to put ourselves in a bad ongoing situation (like take on albatross contracts because the player is useful), i.e. a swing for the fences that could be very risky with the goal of contending right away. But I absolutely believe that Luka has to be convinced that you made significant successful efforts (in terms of the transactions, i.e. no "we tried but..." if not in terms of the resulting on-court product) to make the team more competitive. I don't think any sort of approach of "we'll be good eventually" wrt this coming year cuts it. At all. (10-02-2020, 02:11 PM)omahen Wrote:(10-02-2020, 02:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: That's crazy. I guess it's possible then. I still don't see the Mavs being competitive next year unless they pull something huge out of thin air (or several things) but it's interesting to know that it has happened before. Schroder and Millsap would be a very satisfactory offseason, depending on the length and size of Millsap's deal. It would be a home run if they somehow pulled it off without including 18. That's a scenario in which that approach of giving a questionable floor/high ceiling draft pick time to pay off could work - you addressed your immediate, sine qua non needs without needing to use the draft to do it. The same might be true to a lesser extent if you traded 18 but picked at 31 and that guy turned out to be a major steal. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Reunion Mav Old - 10-02-2020 (10-02-2020, 02:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:Ok. Do we really want Luka to figure out a way to break the spirit of a rule which is immediately changed to correct the flaw after the season: like Wade did. That is the only way that happened.(10-02-2020, 02:01 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(10-02-2020, 01:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Holy HELL, is that true? Was Wade still on his original rookie deal in 2006? (10-02-2020, 02:06 PM)khaled1987 Wrote:I guess I am old, 64, but I remember that Kareen Abdul Jabbar, (was he still Lew Alcindor) won the NBA title with Milwaukee in his first year. Kareen helped Magic Johnson win the title in his first year as well.(10-02-2020, 01:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:(10-02-2020, 01:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(10-02-2020, 01:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think it's pretty much impossible for the Mavs to reach true contender status before Luka's rookie max extension even happens. Has ANYONE ever done that? RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - mtrot - 10-02-2020 Ughh... Dragic and Bam ruled out tonight. Could be a debacle of a game. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - cjeter24 - 10-02-2020 (10-02-2020, 04:12 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:(10-02-2020, 04:05 AM)Mapka Wrote: I´m not sure which teams you see collecting assets and playing winning basketball. I give you the Nuggets by taking a gamble on Porter Jr. - could have gone the other way and they sunk a first. And they've also wasted a crap ton of assets by consistently missing on all these extra picks and not hitting at a high enough rate. (10-02-2020, 01:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: @"Scott41theMavs" I love your heart. KL I would be inclined to agree with you. But look at the Lakers roster. They have 2 of the best players in the world no doubt. But other than Kuzma there's nothing special there that you can't find at any given time in free agency or trade. And that's not to say Kuzma is all that special but young good player on cheap rookie contract isn't super easy to get. That patchworked that team together behind their stars. The point is that we have 2 great stars too. Yeah the Lakers are better. Our stars are going to continue to improve. And with a much better rest of roster than the Lakers, I think you can make up the gap between your two stars. That also is why I think the Lakers are going to be a one time champion with their current roster here. Other teams will improve their rosters to help close that gap and Lakers won't have hardly any ammo to counter. I wouldn't say sell out to try and win now. But being aggressive and opportunistic I think is the play. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - KillerLeft - 10-02-2020 (10-02-2020, 07:54 PM)mtrot Wrote: Ughh... Dragic and Bam ruled out tonight. Could be a debacle of a game. I'm so sad that we're not going to get to see the series we deserved. These playoffs were so great, and I honestly believe the Heat had a good chance, but they're not winning winning after going down 0-2, even if they get Bam and Dragic back at some point in the series. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - mtrot - 10-02-2020 (10-02-2020, 08:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:Lol, I put that in the wrong thread! I meant it for Around the NBA.(10-02-2020, 07:54 PM)mtrot Wrote: Ughh... Dragic and Bam ruled out tonight. Could be a debacle of a game. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Dundalis - 10-03-2020 (10-02-2020, 01:12 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Just getting caught up with stuff. A few points:The 76ers have been better asset managers. But they've also had 3 GM's in like 6 years. It doesn't mean they will use the assets wisely. Hinkie was the asset acquisition guy, whether you like his methods or not, he did it incredibly well. I said they had clearly acquired more valuable assets. And they have. If you think the non Luka/KP assets the Mavs have are more valuable than let's say the non Embiid/Simmons collection of assets the Sixers have (players and picks), you are in dreamland, whether you think Horford and Harris are overpaid or not. Even if you were to include KP as a tradeable asset for the Mavs and Simmons as a tradeable asset for the Sixers, it's an easy win for the Sixers in terms of desirable assets. The rest of the stuff is irrelevant. I specifically said a bad GM can ruin any roster. They have wasted a few of the assets they have had over the past few years through poor management and decision making, but they had acquired the assets to build a great team. I'm only saying they've been better at acquiring assets to put them in better positions to build a great team, not that they actually will use them effectively. That was the main point. Your second point has a whole bunch of exagerrated hyperbole in it. Lol at "it's a bitch slap to him" to live in reality. I'm sure Luka believes he can compete for a title every year, but I doubt he's home crying right now because we lost. He's resting up, and then will be trying to get better and improve his own game, because that's what hyper talented young 21 year old NBA players do, regardless of their supposed standing in the league. They are not acting bitch slapped because they aren't on a contender at the age of 22. I've heard the Luka will leave argument so many times now. I guess I won't go out and drive because there's a chance I might get into a car accident and die. The whole anectodal "look it happened this one time, see!!" is way overdone. If Luka does leave it will probably because we made some bad moves with a win now mindset looking to win it all in the next 2-3 years with age inappropriate players on bad contracts, then when Luka actually enters his prime, we have to rebuild again with limited resources and he asks for a trade. Because typically, NBA superstars are FAR less accepting of roster building or rebuilding when they are in their actual prime, than when they are in their early 20's and years away from it. Who would have thought that. We would get an absolute kings ransom for him, which I guess would be one consolation. Look, I'd love for the Mavs to win next season. I'd also equally love for them to win in 5 seasons and 10. And if the reality is that it's "unlikely" they are in genuine contention next season, then that is fine as long as valuable asset acquisition moves are being made. It being "unlikely" is a fact for anyone that isn't a total homer, it's not just the current playoff teams, but the younger developing teams that will get better as well as some superstars that will return from injury that will likely make next season even more competitive than this one past. I won't even get into how I think a bunch of Mavs totally overachieved with career shooting years all at once this season past and are probably more likely to regress to the mean than maintain it. Given the state of the team with a 21 year old superstar, I'd hope the MBT understands that they are building for the next 10-15 years like Cuban harps on about, and actually makes the best moves with that in mind. Rather than this panicked emotional hand wrangling because there's this little percentage chance (i.e zero chance) Luka might leave after his rookie deal or be upset we aren't up with the best in the NBA in his third season when he's years off his prime. There's no evidence to me the MBT are any good at that kind of long term roster building, so I'm hoping to see it, that's all. I'm not even commenting on specifics of individual moves made, because I'm not against bringing in for example an older player who fits a role and is likely to only help within the next season or two. But if the team is consistently foregoing longer term roster building moves at the expense of winning right now moves (and yes I get they are not mutually exclusive, if they fit both criteria, great), we'll see what happens I guess, but I'm willing to bet it will bite them a lot harder than another year or two of roster building while Luka is young (while still being a playoff caliber team obviously) for longer term sustained contention. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-03-2020 I have explained my position pretty well - 1) it's crazy not to be concerned about keeping Luka happy - and that involves have a cast around him that can help him win from training camp of '20-'21 onward - in today's NBA, 2) next year, that doesn't necessarily mean a truly contending team, but certainly a much better team, because the team around Luka and KP was extremely talent starved, so I'm not Mr. Gotta-Win-Now, 3) that improvement must include, this offseason, at least one player (two, if THJ is not here next year, which I am in favor of) who is not necessarily the-second-or-third-best-player-on-a-contending-team, but certainly the Mavs' third best player, which I have said over and over and over again is extremely low-hanging fruit, and 4) if you don't do it through the draft, you'd better be ready to do it, efficaciously, through trade (hint: our assets aren't great) or free agency (hint: we only have the MLE). I am fine with best player available (especially if we can move up a bit and get better player available) regardless of immediate readiness (but if he isn't ready to contribute at 20 mpg by the beginning of '22-'23, can we agree either that his learning curve is way too steep, or that he was a gigantic bust?) as long as the Mavs have another solid plan to get that third guy by other means. I would make one major exception to BPA. If the BPA can't play defense (i.e. Toppin, Nesmith), then the answer is a flat no, and you move on down your draft board for the selection. Once again, BPA can't play defense, then https://media.giphy.com/media/O9BPkYr89lK2A/giphy.gif RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-03-2020 https://youtu.be/3ozxl_1EwtI Hmmmm.... need to check out Maxey and Reed's offensive potentialities after this. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - cow - 10-03-2020 Maybe we could get lucky at 18/31 and get Maxey/Green. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 10-03-2020 (10-03-2020, 10:23 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Hmmmm.... need to check out Maxey and Reed's offensive potentialities after this. Thanks for posting that video, but (and I know this stuff is super subjective) I don't really agree with their list and honorable mentions other than Vassell is definitely at the top. I do not know how they don't include Ty-Shon Alexander (whose opponents only shot 30%) and Robert Woodard II (whose opponents only shot 32%) just as a couple of examples. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-05-2020 Don't know if I posted Reed's video. He's going to be fairly high when I redo my draft board. https://youtu.be/ZRCy45OpCNk RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 10-05-2020 (10-05-2020, 12:05 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Don't know if I posted Reed's video. I had a number of pages ago and also have him as a great possible fit for the Mavs. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Mavs2019 - 10-05-2020 (10-05-2020, 12:05 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Don't know if I posted Reed's video. He's going to be fairly high when I redo my draft board.Another one of those guys: Why do we pay Dwight Powell $11M. Undoubtedly one of these physical specimens will be the next Bam or Draymond. You just need to pick the 1 out of the 15-20 guys. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-05-2020 Kamm, I checked out the Woodard video. He good. Low ceiling, imho, but could certainly be yet another strong bench contributor for us in a year or two. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 10-05-2020 (10-05-2020, 08:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Kamm, I checked out the Woodard video. He good. Low ceiling, imho, but could certainly be yet another strong bench contributor for us in a year or two. His ceiling is a NBA starting role player IMO. That is EXACTLY what the Mavs need to be hunting for in this draft. He feels like the exact kind of player that fills out a rotation for a championship team. Strong athlete with good length who does the dirty work and can hit an open shot. Did you check out Ty-Shon Alexander yet? Thoughts? RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 10-05-2020 (10-05-2020, 08:31 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(10-05-2020, 08:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Kamm, I checked out the Woodard video. He good. Low ceiling, imho, but could certainly be yet another strong bench contributor for us in a year or two. Great D, not sure how usable his offense will be. And wow, are you high on Woodard. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 10-05-2020 (10-05-2020, 08:58 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: wow, are you high on Woodard. That's his CEILING in my opinion. I am NOT saying he becomes that. But he is one of the guys I like taking a chance on. RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 (Combine: Sep 28 - Oct 16) | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 10-06-2020 (10-05-2020, 08:58 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Great D, not sure how usable his offense will be. Ty-Shon Alexander's opponents only shot 30% against him. He regularly guarded guys bigger than him like Saddiq Bey (holding him to 7-23 or 30% shooting in two games), but also chased smaller guys running around off ball or doing pick and roll (he is good at going OVER screens and not getting stuck on them). I really want to know his wingspan as I wouldn't be surprised if it is close to 7 ft because he plays much bigger than his 6'4" height. He does great staying vertical on defense, not biting on fakes, and often does not have to jump to bother shooters. He also does not foul much, with only 2.0 fouls per 40 mins (2.7 for Vassell, 2.9 for SBey, 2.6 for TBey, 3.5 for Okoro, 2.3 for Woodard, 3.2 for JGreen, 2.8 for Maxey, 2.9 for PWilliams, 3.7 for PReed, 3.1 for Achiuwa). As far as offense, I see him as an off-ball player who spreads the floor looking for catch and shoot three opportunities (he shot 40% on threes with 6.5 attempts per game). But he has a good enough first step that he can attack the closeout too. He is by no means a PG, but he can create enough in a support role next to guys who draw the defensive attention. I personally love him as some sort of Marcus Smart kind of player to play alongside Luka. He doesn't need the ball to be successful AND he can guard the guards Luka is unable to guard while being long enough to play switching D. Here is lots more film to see his game in context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEJEmE71OHU |