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+--- Thread: DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey] (/showthread.php?tid=200)
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RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Torielp10 - 09-17-2020
Trade pick 18 to New York for their number 27 and knox(they have given up on him.) Draft tyler bey or tyrell terry at 27, and isiah stewart at 31.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - aguiar95 - 09-18-2020
My 2020 Dallas Mavericks NBA Draft Big Board:
Tier I: Superstar. Trade anything but Luka to get this guy. Potential 1st/2nd best player on our championship team.
No one.
Tier II-A: All-Stars in Dallas. Trade anything but Luka/KP to get this guy. Potential 2nd/3rd best player on our championship team.
No one.
Tier II-B: All-Stars in other teams. Wouldn't trade up to get them, because we don't have the assets/don't like the fit with Luka/KP.
1) A. Edwards
2) J. Wiseman
3) L. Ball
4) K. Hayes
Tier III-A: Potential starters for Dallas. Trade anything but our core-6 to get this guy. Potential 3rd/4th/5th best player on our championship team.
5) D. Vassell
6) O. Okongwu
7) T. Haliburton
8) R.J. Hampton
9) S. Bey
Tier III-B: Starters for other teams. Wouldn't trade up to get them, because I don't like the fit as much as the others. If they reach #18, we draft them for value and try modeling them to our system.
10) D. Avdija
11) K. Lewis Jr.
12) J. Smith
13) T. Maledon
14) I. Okoro
15) O. Toppin
16) J. Green
17) P. Achiuwa
18) T. Maxey
19) C. Anthony
20) A. Pokusevski
21) P. Williams
Tier IV: Role Players. Wouldn't draft them at #18, if they reach #31 we draft them. Potential 6th/7th/8th best player on our championship team.
22) A. Nesmith
23) T. Terry
24) T. Bey
25) N. Mannion
26) T. Jones
27) D. Bane
28) X. Tillman
29) L. Bolmaro
30) K. Tillie
31) R. Perry
32) J. Ramsey
33) Z. Nnaji
Tier V: Rotation players. Wouldn't draft them at #31, but like the fit on our team in a possible trade down scenario. Potential 8th/9th/10th best player on our championship team.
34) M. Flynn
35) C. Stanley
36) M. Fitts
37) I. Stewart
38) I. Quickley
39) G. Riller
40) P. Reed
41) C. Winston
42) R. Woodard II
43) J. McDaniels
44) U. Azubuike
45) D. Oturo
46) V. Carey Jr.
47) P. Pritchard
48) J. Harris
Tier VI: Possible undrafted players worth keeping an eye that can become something on our roster given the time.
49) N. Darling
50) I. Joe
51) S. Mays
52) Y. Madar
53) J. Nwora
54) M. Diakite
Feel free to give your thoughts, sugestions and overall opinion. I'll reduce this list once the draft approaches with more details to the prospects.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - KillerLeft - 09-18-2020
@"aguiar95" great stuff, thanks! Super clearly done, and you obviously have a passion for the draft.
I don't ever watch a minute of college sports, so I have no clue who most of those guys are, lol. I wish I could participate, but I can't wait to read the discussion.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - michaeltex - 09-18-2020
@aguiar95 That took a ton of insight to put together! Thanks for sharing.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 09-18-2020
Aguiar, I appreciate the hard work. This is the type of draft discussion we ought to be having here, but 1) the draft is still two months away (this very day!), 2) we didn't get the NCAA's this year, and 3) many (like me) think #18 is gone in trade anyway, so people aren't devoting the time to it that we ought to be. I would put T. Bey up a tier, but on the other hand, I do believe he'll be on the board at #21 and would be seen as a reach at #18, so I'm an advocate for buying one of those 20s picks to see if we can get him or Reed.
I was a little taken aback at how you characterized the rankings (especially the lower), but the key word is "potential," and it highlights that this is not a "good" draft (in terms of the top of the draft), but it may very well be a deep draft.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - aguiar95 - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 02:50 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Aguiar, I appreciate the hard work. This is the type of draft discussion we ought to be having here, but 1) the draft is still two months away (this very day!), 2) we didn't get the NCAA's this year, and 3) many (like me) think #18 is gone in trade anyway, so people aren't devoting the time to it that we ought to be. I would put T. Bey up a tier, but on the other hand, I do believe he'll be on the board at #21 and would be seen as a reach at #18, so I'm an advocate for buying one of those 20s picks to see if we can get him or Reed.
I was a little taken aback at how you characterized the rankings (especially the lower), but the key word is "potential," and it highlights that this is not a "good" draft (in terms of the top of the draft), but it may very well be a deep draft.
Thanks. The thing with T. Bey is that his defense alone puts him in late 1st round discussion (best post defender in this class, great verticality and versatility), but as you've said it's a reach to draft him at #18 if he doesn't have any impact offensively (TO prone/not an outside shooter), almost the same with P. Williams (Florida State). To become a starter here, we have to bank on him adapting his game (a lot) to play outside since he played only as an interior player. My comparison for him is a more athletic/less IQ Grant Williams (BOS).
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 12:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: 29) L. Bolmaro
First off: FANTASTIC post and big board. Please keep posting adjustments, it is a GREAT starting point for Mavs-centric discussion. I love this SO MUCH. Great job!
So for discussion:
Talk to me about Bolmaro. I see someone who could absolutely be a starter for the Mavs in a few years, anchoring some secondary playmaking, fitting into an overall unselfish scheme, allowing Luka to dominate, and bringing GREAT defense, length, and flexibility.
Tell me why he is 29 on your big board and where I am wrong or blind. Thanks!
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - aguiar95 - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 04:10 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(09-18-2020, 12:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: 29) L. Bolmaro
First off: FANTASTIC post and big board. Please keep posting adjustments, it is a GREAT starting point for Mavs-centric discussion. I love this SO MUCH. Great job!
So for discussion:
Talk to me about Bolmaro. I see someone who could absolutely be a starter for the Mavs in a few years, anchoring some secondary playmaking, fitting into an overall unselfish scheme, allowing Luka to dominate, and bringing GREAT defense, length, and flexibility.
Tell me why he is 29 on your big board and where I am wrong or blind. Thanks!
You are completely right. He is one of the most intriguing players to watch (played waaaaay better in 1st division then 2nd/3rd, not sure how to take this). His playmaking is incredible (really high degree of difficulty/I don't care for his TO numbers), one/two more years at Barcelona would do wonders for him (has shown great improvement in shot selection this year, he's signed to Barcelona till '23 with NBA clause, I'm looking for draft/stash teams to get him mid to late 1st).
He could be a starter on a good team, but I envision him having a 6th man role coming from the bench in 4/5 years. He's 29th (and looking back he might be higher near the draft) because I believe everyone above him would have a greater impact on our roster (If he started, it would put a lot of pressure on our on-ball defender and into our post-defender to hit 3's with him + Doncic on the floor with his C&S numbers).
Most of his assist were on transition (not a great HC initiator) and he doesn't drive a lot to the basket (bad if we continue on drive/kick system, bad FTA rate, he's better if you have more cutters/rollers on the team). I know it's unfair, but his athleticism also comes into play when watching him. He avoids contact at every cost and has been cooked sometimes by quicker guards on D. My comp for him is a latino Joe Ingles (UTA).
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 05:31 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: I believe everyone above him would have a greater impact on our roster
Cool.
Could you talk about a few of the guys that might go in his range that you think are a better fit on the Mavs and why? I would love that to educate myself, thanks!
(09-18-2020, 12:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: 5) D. Vassell
So I want to take a deeper dive on the guys Aguiar likes a lot for the Mavs...
Vassell is mocked at #9 on Tankathon and #11 on the Ringer. He is a 20 yr old, 6'7" SG/SF from Florida State.
IF he were to be available at #9 with WAS picking OR #11 with SAS picking, do the Mavs have the ammo to move up from #18?
Here is a scouting video on him and his D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbjC85s2YZ4
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - aguiar95 - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 08:47 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Cool.
Could you talk about a few of the guys that might go in his range that you think are a better fit on the Mavs and why? I would love that to educate myself, thanks!
I will on my next update, where I'll erase the bad fits and keep 10-20 guys (closer to the draft I'll have a better notion about our range and who could possibly fall) and extend explanations about every player and their fit/impact here. His range is wild. If I had to I'll say he goes on the 17th-27th range.
I'm open to discuss about other players too, always great to have other guys' insight.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 12:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: 8) R.J. Hampton
Hampton is mocked at #15 on Tankathon and #23 on the Ringer. He is a 19 year old, 6'5" SG/PG.
If he is available at #18 is he a take? Is he worth trading up to guarantee getting him at say #15 where ORL picks?
Here is a scouting video on him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Aab9hVFkA
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - aguiar95 - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 08:47 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(09-18-2020, 12:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: 5) D. Vassell
So I want to take a deeper dive on the guys Aguiar likes a lot for the Mavs...
Vassell is mocked at #9 on Tankathon and #11 on the Ringer. He is a 20 yr old, 6'7" SG/SF from Florida State.
IF he were to be available at #9 with WAS picking OR #11 with SAS picking, do the Mavs have the ammo to move up from #18?
He would be really a dream scenario. I'm hearing he won't go past top-10. Deffensive IQ, Perimeter defense, on-ball defense, PNR defense, you name it. His comp is to me is M. Bridges (PHO). Perfect player next to KP/Luka. Great defender, low USG% and good C&S numbers? Yes, please.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 09:28 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: He would be really a dream scenario. I'm hearing he won't go past top-10. Deffensive IQ, Perimeter defense, on-ball defense, PNR defense, you name it. His comp is to me is M. Bridges (PHO). Perfect player next to KP/Luka. Great defender, low USG% and good C&S numbers? Yes, please.
He fits the needs of the Mavs like a GLOVE. 100% agree.
But do they have the ammo?
@"DanSchwartzman" what do you think? Any realistic way to get to a place like 9 in the draft?
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Scott41theMavs - 09-18-2020
I'm a big fan of Hoop Intellect's scouting videos because I like the traditional strengths/weaknesses format. Here's Vassell:
https://youtu.be/O6ZtJw1k3bk
and here's Hampton.
https://youtu.be/0XZVpggCCYk
Think I'm out on Hampton because I don't think he could guard anyone at the next level, and the Mavs need defense more than anything else.
Re: Vassell and the other 3 and D guys: why don't these guys go higher in the draft, considering they're one of the most-coveted treasures in the league now? Especially those with some size? I suppose it's because teams drafting that high are usually looking for creators. It just strikes me as strange that they go so low. Strong defensive college players who project to pro and can hit threes might be the rookies who can help a competitive team the most in their first years without hurting because their skills translate so well.
This is just a fan's perspective, but I like it because it ranks the players' NBA readiness. Dahlsim will love his number one and his reasoning; many others will hate it.
https://pelicandebrief.com/2020/09/07/2020-nba-draft-big-board-2-0/
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-18-2020
(09-18-2020, 11:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I suppose it's because teams drafting that high are usually looking for creators.
Yep, it is because 3&D guys generally have a "known" ceiling and if you are picking in the top ten you want the potential to be a STAR.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - aguiar95 - 09-19-2020
(09-18-2020, 11:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Think I'm out on Hampton because I don't think he could guard anyone at the next level, and the Mavs need defense more than anything else.
Think of Hampton as Trey Burke (fit with Luka/dinamic on defense/3-level scorer) with STEROIDS. Home town kid (Little Elm), has said Luka is one of the best players to watch (and gave him confidence to skip college). Top athleticism/speed combined with great PNR and finishing at the rim. He's not a good passer (kind of the Burke bubble role with the SL) and his shot needs some work, but I can see him being a successfull on-ball defender guarding 1-2 here. He's one of the few guards I like the fit with our starting core moving forward (low USG%, defense, could go bonkers on the bench unit the first couple of years). He could fall, but I project him going 10th-15th.
Maybe a 18/31 for 15/45 swap with ORL?
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-19-2020
(09-19-2020, 06:48 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: I can see him being a successfull on-ball defender guarding 1-2 here.
Yeah his weakness is strength (which can be developed). He moves his feet GREAT on D and has good length. You love that.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - DanSchwartzgan - 09-19-2020
(09-18-2020, 10:05 PM)Kammrath Wrote: He fits the needs of the Mavs like a GLOVE. 100% agree.
But do they have the ammo?
@"DanSchwartzman" what do you think? Any realistic way to get to a place like 9 in the draft?
I don't think so. Any conversation would start with #18 plus 2025? Some middle of the pack veteran like Maxi or Seth isn't going to do it. Washington needs hope. #9 gives them that. BTW, anything we can do with 18/31, Boston can do better with 14/26/30.
BTW, I loved your comment about "known ceiling". Everyone wants to find the next Giannis at 15 or Mitchell at 13. I've read articles in the past that track the bust rate of various picks. Teams do an especially horrible job in the 4-9 range looking for a star. They pick guys who have no NBA ready skill, but who have the potential to have several if it all works out just right. Teams tend to do much better getting guys who have one thing they do well enough to keep them on rosters until some of the other stuff develops. But, it is often too early to take those "known ceiling" guys that early.
(09-19-2020, 06:48 AM)aguiar95 Wrote:
Maybe a 18/31 for 15/45 swap with ORL?
This seems reasonable. It takes 31 out of play for a Jackson plus 31 or Wright plus 31 deal. But, you are more likely to give #45 a two-way contract where with #31 you are more likely to use some of the MLE to give a 3 year deal. Is there someone at #15 who you love who won't be there at #18?
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-19-2020
(09-19-2020, 08:04 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I don't think so. Any conversation would start with #18 plus 2025? Some middle of the pack veteran like Maxi or Seth isn't going to do it. Washington needs hope. #9 gives them that. BTW, anything we can do with 18/31, Boston can do better with 14/26/30.
What about PHX at #10? Might they be interested in a vet now that they have seemingly turned a corner and have youth coming out of their ears?
(09-19-2020, 08:04 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: BTW, I loved your comment about "known ceiling". Everyone wants to find the next Giannis at 15 or Mitchell at 13. I've read articles in the past that track the bust rate of various picks. Teams do an especially horrible job in the 4-9 range looking for a star. They pick guys who have no NBA ready skill, but who have the potential to have several if it all works out just right. Teams tend to do much better getting guys who have one thing they do well enough to keep them on rosters until some of the other stuff develops. But, it is often too early to take those "known ceiling" guys that early.
I am hopeful that the Mavs (now that they have their stars) will be better at the draft because they simply need to pinpoint specific skills to fill out the roster.
RE: DRAFT: Nov 18 | Mavs get #18 & #31 - Kammrath - 09-19-2020
(09-18-2020, 12:45 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: 9) S. Bey
Saddiq Bey is a 21 year old, 6'8" wing mocked at #18 on the Ringer and #13 at Tankathon.
A couple more videos of my boy Saddiq:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-6lNvWTfFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nWFbTgd2K0