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+--- Thread: AROUND the NBA: (/showthread.php?tid=2171)
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RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1597399559226785793
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1597409576567308288
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/1597414139365797888
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-28-2022
https://twitter.com/SynergySST/status/1597423859187449856
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - RoyTarpleysGhost - 11-29-2022
KAT injured. They’re calling it a calf strain for now. Looked like an Achilles live.
Pacers beat the Lakers at the buzzer. Now 12-8.
KP Dropped a career high 41 tonight on 12/18 shooting.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - HoosierDaddyKid - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 02:28 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: KAT injured. They’re calling it a calf strain for now. Looked like an Achilles live.
Pacers beat the Lakers at the buzzer. Now 12-8.
KP Dropped a career high 41 tonight on 12/18 shooting.
He's finally healthy, and playing well this year.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 02:28 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: KP Dropped a career high 41 tonight on 12/18 shooting.
And just 4 rebounds.
Nothing against KP, good from him he is performing well.
Just can't stand poor rebounding for someone above 7 feet.
But yeah, I still couldn't believe Mavs had to give up a second round pick when they were already taking in Bertans.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Chicagojk - 11-29-2022
I haven't watched KP much. Do I miss him? Not really. I did think he would play his best ball to start the year this year. The issue was always long term health. I thought the trade for Washington was well worth it though. They are a team not going anywhere and only gave up two players they didn't like (one with major injury concerns as well), plus they got a second round pick too.
I was always curious if we sold low on KP though. Last season miraculous run to the WCF obvioulsy needs to be considered. Although would I sacrifice that run if we still had Jalen and KP, who could be moved this year at a higher return? hmm.....
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - KillerLeft - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 08:59 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I was always curious if we sold low on KP though. Last season miraculous run to the WCF obvioulsy needs to be considered. Although would I sacrifice that run if we still had Jalen and KP, who could be moved this year at a higher return? hmm.....
I think the WCF run was aided by 6th man Dinwiddie (much better than his cousin, starter Dinwiddie), but really the benefit was removing Porzingis from the locker room. The team stopped looking like they hated each other (kind of like they do now) and it seemed like games were fun for them again immediately. Addition by subtraction.
Did they sell low on him? I'm not sure, but I'm almost positive that he wouldn't be having a good season here, even if healthy. People act like his health was all that held him back here and it was a big part of the equation, but honestly he seemed like a bad player for the majority of his time here.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-29-2022
https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1597591161316806657
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - dirkfansince1998 - 11-29-2022
(11-28-2022, 09:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/1597414139365797888
Joining a long list of stretch bigs or wings that go for career highs against Gobert. Just looking back at the Mavs playoff run Maxi dropped 25pts. Shooting 8/11 from 3.
Gobert alone can be a liability against 5-out spacing. Add Towns and it gets worse.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-29-2022
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1597629580323753984
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-29-2022
https://twitter.com/HoopsRumors/status/1597637729612726272
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - omahen - 11-29-2022
(2) Marc Stein on Twitter: "Veteran referee Tony Brothers was forced to miss one game assignment after Dallas' Spencer Dinwiddie said Brothers referred to him as a "bitch-ass motherf-----r" Nov. 4, sources say. It's believed no discipline was formally announced because it was not a suspension without pay." / Twitter
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - HoosierDaddyKid - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 11:59 AM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1597629580323753984
Bol Bol is a freak of nature. He's getting playing time, unlike he was in Denver.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - mvossman - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 09:04 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think the WCF run was aided by 6th man Dinwiddie (much better than his cousin, starter Dinwiddie), but really the benefit was removing Porzingis from the locker room. The team stopped looking like they hated each other (kind of like they do now) and it seemed like games were fun for them again immediately. Addition by subtraction.
Did they sell low on him? I'm not sure, but I'm almost positive that he wouldn't be having a good season here, even if healthy. People act like his health was all that held him back here and it was a big part of the equation, but honestly he seemed like a bad player for the majority of his time here.
I agree on the chemistry thing, but we definitely sold low. If nothing else, we should have traded him in the offseason. He was a very good player for us that first season, but his defense was never the same after the playoff injury. He is playing better offensively since he went to Wiz. I think there really were issues with him and Luka.
I think Dinwiddie is playing roughly the same he did last year for us. On paper he should be a better match with Luka than Brunson because he is a more willing 3 point shooter. I realize his on/off numbers are not good right now, but I think some folks on this board read too much into that. Timmy currently has a higher on/off than Luka.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 12:44 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think there really were issues with him and Luka.
No question in my mind. Luka and KP did NOT like each other.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 12:44 PM)mvossman Wrote: Timmy currently has a higher on/off than Luka.
Nope. Luka is +3.9 on/off, THJ +2.9.
The reason THJ has had high numbers is because so many of his minutes have come with JG (+11.5 JG&THJ) and with Wood (+8.6 Wood&THJ) and with Luka (+8.3 Luka&THJ).
On/off doesn't lie, you just have to look at the whole team and lineup dynamics to understand it. THJ is the ultimate coat-tail-rider this year in regard to on/off.
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - Kammrath - 11-29-2022
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1597773865480253440
RE: AROUND the NBA: Hayward out indefinitely w/dislocated shoulder| - mvossman - 11-29-2022
(11-29-2022, 01:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Nope. Luka is +3.9 on/off, THJ +2.9.
The reason THJ has had high numbers is because so many of his minutes have come with JG (+11.5 JG&THJ) and with Wood (+8.6 Wood&THJ) and with Luka (+8.3 Luka&THJ).
On/off doesn't lie, you just have to look at the whole team and lineup dynamics to understand it. THJ is the ultimate coat-tail-rider this year in regard to on/off.
If by "does not lie" you mean that you have to take into account all of the different combinations that player has played with, and all the combinations those players have played with, and all the players that player has played against, and all the players those players have played with and against, and then the random luck of things like the high variance 3 point percentage of the other 9 players on the court, then maybe it does tell all. But its not easy to dig that deeply and most folks either just quote the player on/off number or at best give some additional high level stuff like you just did.
You can make similar arguments for Dinwiddie that he has been dragged down by playing with starters who have really struggled (McGee, Bullock, even Dorian) and he is probably the only player to play just about every minute Luka was not on the court.
I'm not saying there is not value to these numbers and moreso when you look at the next layer, but there is still a whole of noise that is hard to filter out. There is a reason the best advanced stats cannot rely solely on on/off and have to use some kind of priors to filter out that noise.
Also, I was actually looking at net rating instead of on/off. I'm surprised they could be out of sync with each other from an ordering standpoint (you would think if a guy has a higher net rating than a teammate, he would also have a higher on/off).